Mapping Guide Line Highlights

SgtBarlow

<div class="IPBDescription">Changes you should know about.</div>There have been a number of changes to exsisting Entities and Groups you need to update in your maps, you will find all the new details in the updated Mapping Guidelines PDF in the games folder.


<b><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->PRE 160 CHANGES<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
<blockquote><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FFBB11--><span style="color:#FFBB11"><!--/coloro--><b>Changes to Special Groups</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

<u>PathWaypoints</u> is now called <!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->AirWaypoints<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
New <!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->GroundWaypoints<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> group to specify passable areas for units like the The Mobile Siege Cannon


<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FFBB11--><span style="color:#FFBB11"><!--/coloro--><b>Changes to Entites</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->minimap_extents<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - place and scale to encase the entire map <u><b>Excluding the Ready Room</b></u>.
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->commander_camera<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - These are indeed now used, place where there are big height differances. When the overview is generated a level height map is generated and auto smoothed so the commader camera will gradually lower/raise to the next.
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->team_join<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - Place then use the scale tool to make into a box big enougth for the player to walk into.
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->location<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - Scale to encompass and entire room or area.
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->power_node<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - Now only needs placing inside a location to effect all the lights in that location. Will effect all location entities that have the same name as the one it is inside of.

<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->ladder<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - Place infront of a climable object, Best way to describe its current function is to treat it like a tube you can move up and down inside of.
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->death_trigger<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->fog_controls<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - Currently place one to alter the grey mist in your map to desired color & density. Future plans are to allow placing more to control the fog color in different rooms.</blockquote>



<b><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->BUILD 160 CHANGES<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
<blockquote>
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FFBB11--><span style="color:#FFBB11"><!--/coloro--><b>New Entites</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<blockquote><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>egg_start</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Place a minimum of <b><u>7</u></b> <b>egg_starts</b> in the same <u>location</u> volume as the hive they are intended for for all tech points that can be captured by aliens.
You can place eggs anywhere you want as long as they are inside a location entity with the same name as the one the hive is in.
Eggs will not spawn if they are too close to other objects.
</blockquote>

<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FFBB11--><span style="color:#FFBB11"><!--/coloro--><b>Other</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<blockquote><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Shadows<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> (Changed in a previous build)
Textured surfaces of Models and Geometry no longer cast shadows, the revese side now casts shadows to save shadow render time on surfaces that casted shadows into the void.
This also means a face with a grill texture applied no longer needs to be created facing a light in order to get the grill shadow effect unless you want a shadow to be case from a face facing the source, then a face facing away must be created in order to cast a shadow, for example where a grill covers a pit as opposed to a grill infront of a light shining down onto the level.

<b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Overviews<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
Regenerate your overviews to get the new ones.
</blockquote></blockquote>

wolffeguard

Nice. I've seen your mapping videos, which involves you non-stop placing models, almost never creating faces. Is the spark editor intended to make levels using 100% placed models?

SgtBarlow

I would not say intended, There is no real certainty on what exactly is best as of yet.
Currently with out having tested a 100% Gometry map vs 100% Props we would not know if there is any differance, would be difficult to test.

I dont see there being too much of an issue, we just dont know for certain till more pressing issues are resolved

Lemming Jesus

Good man. Explains why my working waypoints no longer work and the ready room broke. I see no mention of powergrid. I've got a rough idea what to do, but anything you can add would help.

My lights flicker when the node is damaged but when destroyed they just come back on a few seconds after turning off. Is that intentional? My PDF is still the same old same old.

SgtBarlow

Yeh, they come back to full bright, They are supposed to only run on "Auxilary Power" so half brightness, needs looking at.

There are a couple of small things i can add I forgot about.

<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Lights<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - now have a flag to exclude them form the FX of the PowerGrid, i asked for this because I placed lights powered by fictional battery fission packs so it was waerd to see those dimm out too.
- They also have a shadow fade out value, Lower the number to reduce how quickly the shadows fade out, they will remain for longer making them visible from further away, weard i know but it works.

<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Props<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - Have a disable shadows flag, Shadows are expensive so disable them wherever you can, you save the game from spending time on creating shadow maps for that prop. Good places are on props you find not casting a shadow anyway because its too close to a surface (still a map is created) & props that act as walls that would aimlessly cast a shadow into the void.

SN.Wolf

<!--quoteo(post=1803386:date=Oct 27 2010, 09:20 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Oct 27 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803386"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Lights<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - now have a flag to exclude them form the FX of the PowerGrid, i asked for this because I placed lights powered by fictional battery fission packs so it was waerd to see those dimm out too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thanks for the update!! Ladders!!!....yay!!!!!!! but elevators

Will there be a flag to activate lights when a grid is destroyed? Like auxiliary emergency lights, maybe even trigger a cinematic of some flashing warning strobes?

OH! One other thing, I'm not sure what to do for skybox. is this feature working or am i not using it correctly? I used faces for backdrops but it would be nice to have a star cluttered sky surrounding the entire level.

SgtBarlow

<!--quoteo(post=1803444:date=Oct 28 2010, 08:48 AM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Oct 28 2010, 08:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will there be a flag to activate lights when a grid is destroyed? Like auxiliary emergency lights, maybe even trigger a cinematic of some flashing warning strobes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The light on the node is supposed to flash, its not been done yet.
There have not yet been any requirements to trigger other entities on its destruction. It would be a nice option add in at some point.

<!--quoteo(post=1803444:date=Oct 28 2010, 08:48 AM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Oct 28 2010, 08:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OH! One other thing, I'm not sure what to do for skybox. is this feature working or am i not using it correctly? I used faces for backdrops but it would be nice to have a star cluttered sky surrounding the entire level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You need a custom skybox of a stary night sky, you will find freebies if you search for free skyboxes.
When you have one you should have 6 images. They need to be 1024x1024px if you need to size them down.
You need Photoshop to save them in PSD format so the builder can convert them to DDS. You can find an example of the .material files in ns2\materials\skybox.

Follow <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Builder" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Builder</a> on how to use the builder.

Once you have your 6 DDS files and material files:
open the cinematic editor, click the Clouds icon:

<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/ns2/images/csky.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

pSyk0mAn

45° angle doesn't seem to work on tech point entities anymore!?
Bug or feature?

SgtBarlow

Bug, Its been fixed once. Thanks for pointing out.

Lemming Jesus

Can you explain the minimap? Mine still turns up as a checkerboard error texture. I've expanded the minimap entity around my entire map, still nothing.

Mendasp

<!--quoteo(post=1803584:date=Oct 28 2010, 09:13 PM:name=Lemming Jesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lemming Jesus @ Oct 28 2010, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803584"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you explain the minimap? Mine still turns up as a checkerboard error texture. I've expanded the minimap entity around my entire map, still nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to use Overview.exe to generate a minimap. There was a thread on this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=110901" target="_blank">here</a>.

SgtBarlow

yeh the overview has to be built seperatly, you will find overview.exe in your folder.

create an overview.bat file:

<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->START "Overview Map Generator" /d "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2" Overview.exe %1 ns2
pause<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

If your map is setup correctly and your PATH ^
Another DOS window will open performing a a render for a few mins.

* Oh you just Drag & Drop the map to the .bat file

SN.Wolf

Errrmm, I created the batch file and get this:

<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2>START "Overview Map
Generator" /d "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2" Over
view.exe  ns2

C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2>pause
Press any key to continue . . .<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

If i try to drop the level on it exits out without doing anything.



I tried the builder XML edit from the other thread ( <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=110901" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=110901</a> ) and when i launch it just flashes up and quickly closes out?

Is this a bug or am i not building my batch file correctly?

Mendasp

The %1 is the file you "drop" into the bat file, but since you're probably executing it directly, you can just run this either through command prompt (cmd.exe) or the run dialog in Windows and be done with it. Or edit the bat and replace the %1 with your map name directly.

You could even make a shortcut to Overview.exe and add the arguments there, like this:

"C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\Overview.exe" yourmapname ns2

pSyk0mAn

I've added the overview.exe as "external tool" in spark as someone kind enough explained this some time ago and I'm only using it for one map anyway:

Tools -> External Tools...
-Title:
Mapname overview
-Command:
C:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\natural selection 2\Overview.exe maps\ns2_summit.level ns2\

Just change to your steam directory and mapname and keep in mind that spark might not be responding for a short while when you start it.

Lemming Jesus

External tool command worked great, the other stuff not so much. Next question is, can I make the map more accurate? I played around with it a bit in game and it seems slightly off. My current map is pretty small though, so that may be a problem.

SgtBarlow

If you are using the .bat file example i posted, it has to go in the folder with overview.exe, you drag and drop the level onto the .bat file.
I use it because i can drop any level onto it without faffing around with setting it up for one specific map as I work on a couple of files for testing.
but yeh you can also use the builder code snippet i posted in the other thread but its not entirely reccomended, i would also set it to build 1 item at a time if you do that.

SN.Wolf

Thanks barlow, that worked but i'm afraid i have some sort of bug as my minimap produced doesn't line up with the tech/res points in game and for some reason it causes my vid card to spaz and i get what looked like a waded peaces of paper of faces on the minimap image and in game. I almost had a heart attack, then i realized i had multiple back-ups of my level...lol

Kinda hard to explain but if you had a waste basket full of waded paper, that's what i got all over my level. I will test it after work again but i almost want to say the stalactite models may be to much for my machine at this point as i experienced a huge decrease in FPS after placing about five of the small models and 3 large models of them and just prior to attempting the minmap, not to mention hydras float in the are like the models are in a invisible tube of sorts. Those models may be intended for backdrops but i think they may be to expensive on the engine at this point.

BTW, the new chains and drill model hanging from chains are awesome!!!


EDIT:

I ran the Overview Via the batch file i created. Something tells me the Minimap in game should <u>not</u> look like this in game?
<img src="http://www.super-nova-team.com/ns2/minimapproblem.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Lemming Jesus

My problem is somewhat similar. Most of my stuff matches up and then marine spawn is off the minimap for whatever reason.

SgtBarlow

Have you both redone your minimap_extents? made sure there is not 2 of them.
It is now a small Grey box that you need to stretch out to encase your map in all directions but not the readyroom.

pSyk0mAn

Yes, I was surprised aswell, when my minimap_extend lacked the radius options.
I really like the new way how triggers and "brush-based" entities in general are handled.

Btw thanks SgtBarlow for all the help and insight.

One more question regarding the commander camera.
Apparently it's always created at the same height above the ground.
Does this height affect the comm view or does the camera height option of the entity?
I've placed one and my comm view is still kinda freaking out at this place.
Do I have to use multiple commander camera entities for different heights in one area?

Quasimetastabil

I dont really know for sure but a logical way i can think of is the location of every camera entity in a dataset and a 3d function interpolated between them. Like a heightmap on which the camera can move. The camera height function is the distance between point of view and the function. So when having 2 camera entities with the same height value but different heights the camera should have the same distance from the ground.

maybe it helps but cant really test it out right now

cu qms

SN.Wolf

<!--quoteo(post=1803852:date=Oct 30 2010, 05:22 AM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Oct 30 2010, 05:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1803852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you both redone your minimap_extents? made sure there is not 2 of them.
It is now a small Grey box that you need to stretch out to encase your map in all directions but not the readyroom.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


DOH!!!.....lol

Thanks for pointing that out, I guess that would cause a conflict eh? ahahaahaha.....i shall try again after work (again).

SgtBarlow

Yer, the comm camera entity is rather weard, it did have a blob at ground level but it went walkies.
I would just move the actual entity higher up if the view seems too low see if that works?.
I aint clear my self on how tha darn thing works properly not had chance to mess with it properly other than produce the files.

Oh and just a quick note, The New Mapping Guide Lines didnt upload to steam for some reason.
They will be in the next patch this comming week.

SN.Wolf

for some odd reason the original minmap_extents is not there, well it must be there if the level loads right?

Is there another way to remove an entity that's there but not visually there? I am perplexed why my original minimap_extents is missing, i looked through all my layers and even painstakingly picked through in wireframe to see if maybe is was hiding inside a prop but i can't seem to find it. My PC can't handle showing all the layers at once so if i can't find the original is my level doomed for a minimap?

Anyone have a powerful enough pc that wouldn't mind poking around to find it, i know what layer it's supposed to be in but i just can't find the darn thing.

SgtBarlow

Turn off all the filters in the bottom right exept for the blue man, Turn all your layers on, Select everything, Pull the whole lot up out of the level, Search for the tiny Grey Box, once you visualised where abouts it is undo the big move.

SN.Wolf

That's a nice little and handy trick,but..... I opened up an older backup and it was there plain as day so when i put the new extents in i must have deleted the old one. i'm pushing 40 so i tend to forget small details sometimes.

Anyways now that i am satisfied that the old it gone and the new is in place I deleted the Overviews and ran it through the batch file again with the same results. it seems that the entities don't line up and are off scale. they are correct as you look at MS on far left it shows tech point and two resource points respectively on either side so i think it just a matter of scale being off somehow as the locations and spacing between them look to be about right. When you click a resource marker (square) on the minimap it takes you way out off the side of the map, i would say 3 times as far as it should as seen in my minimap screenshot on post #18.

Lazer

And don't forget the commander_camera ents either I just ran into that issue.

Lemming Jesus

New patch, new problems. My power nodes no longer work. What's changed?

SgtBarlow

The powernodes no longer use a radius circle.

You have to place down "<u>Location</u>" volumes, the powernode will effect all lights inside the same Location volume its in and any location volumes with the same name.

SN.Wolf

so it is possible to have a powered area far way from the origin of the power-node just by creating a location with the same name of where the original is located?

I could see this to be useful as perhaps a emergency regrouping area that could have power from a specific tech point. Do you think this will be the final for how this will work or is this subject to change before i vest any time in an idea using it as such.