<div class="IPBDescription">Please do not give SquareEnix your money</div><a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-hd-final-fantasy/705893" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-h...-fantasy/705893</a>
Pretty much tells me everything I suspected without even having to touch the game :p
I find it kinda amusing that MMOs (and many other games) often have these dramatic CG battles that make the actual in-game fighting look silly and stilted :3
Yes, but then I played some more with wildly varying settings and finally found something I liked, although after I got past 1700 AD I crash whenever I load a saved game...
Gamespy gave Final Fantasy XIV a <a href="http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/square-enix-next-gen-mmorpg/1127142p1.html" target="_blank">two star review.</a> Somehow I still think it'll sell big in Japan.
No, JP players are dissing the ###### out of it as well. <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FinalFantasyXIV" target="_blank"><img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/15x03yv.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1801374:date=Oct 13 2010, 12:54 AM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DiscoZombie @ Oct 13 2010, 12:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think in JP, no one likes to pay for subscription games<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, I almost read this as an "in soviet Russia", but then in Imperial Japan...
<!--quoteo(post=1801330:date=Oct 12 2010, 11:32 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Oct 12 2010, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find it kinda amusing that MMOs (and many other games) often have these dramatic CG battles that make the actual in-game fighting look silly and stilted :3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's my biggest problem with the upcoming Star Wars MMO, Star Wars The Old Republic. The combat just looks so damn boring with the usual "press 1 to do this attack." To make it worse, you could be attacking with a <i>lightsaber</i> but the stupid rodent (or anything really) doesn't die until you hit it 15 times. SW:TOR is a game trying to baes itself in immersion and story as much as possible and nothing destroys that more than watching your jedi's lightsaber do no more harm than minor bruising.
Then again, this thread was about FFXIV, but you know...
Yes SentrySteve. Goddammit, <b>yes.</b> I'm glad somebody else sees it.
Of course the entire problem with magical space knights in MMOs is that lore-wise they're blatantly overpowered and their only weakness is their emo-ness. "Oh, my soul is so dark, like a black lotus blossom. Watch me become The Evulz for no apparent reason." Any portrayal of jedi in MMOs is going to be either overpowered or not true to the source material. Still, maybe we could overlook that if it didn't seem like the first step of lightsaber combat in ye olden days was "nail your feet to the ground."
See, KoToR2 did it right. They figured out all you ever used was Jedi in KoToR, so EVERY PARTY MEMBER could become Force attuned in KoToR2.
For a MMO..... those bounty hunters better have some seriously awesome equipment 'cause last I heard I had Force Pull and Force Speed.
Re: Civ5, holy ###### did they not learn from Civ3 and Civ4? Infinite City Sprawl is broken!!!! Monetary system broken!!! AI is stupid and can't do tactical battles!
This is worse than Elemental, which mostly had technical and UI issues but a stellar game underneath. Civ5 just has broken mechanics built in (and yet still managed to sneak in technical issues).
the thing is, almost every single major flaw outlined in this review was also in ffxi, the hidden mechanics, the ruthless grind are all in there, in a lot of ways it is exactly as ffxi fans want it.
the game is clearly incomplete, and the combat system though better than ffxi suffers too much from the lag delay to make it actually enjoyable I'd like to make this clear in my jagged english- the combat system in ffxiv is a lot better than it's predecessor -in theory, but the lag isolates anyone outside of JP I don't really know if my NDA still applies but I'll just repeat what other people have said and correct any errors :P
The review also doesn't touch on the microtransactions and monthly payment details, which probably bear mentioning in any mmo they'd recommend. :P
Finally, the majority of the CG is infact done on the fly with the ingame engine, the graphics are really that good (remember the promo video where they showed the battle on the ship for example, this is an ingame scripted fight, but yeah combat is never going to be as elegant directly :p) it's a very pretty game :\
I dunno if I'm even allowed to give an opinion, but put it this way I won't be buying it... and I have no life. (and I even got talked into buying minecraft :O)
Edit: And I share your deep disatisfaction with Civ5... though I did get a reasonable amount of play out of it :\
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
I'm disappointed to hear all this bad business with the FFXIV MMO but on the topic of lightsabre battles in a mmo context... the only thing I could imagine them doing to fix the obvious stupidness of 'hitting a guy with a lightsabre and then he doesn't die right away' would be to make the entire battle comprised of the opponent ducking, weaving, blocking (with appropriate lightsabre or mandalorian mojometal) until he runs out of hp and THEN the sabre hits, slicing him neatly into however many pieces the jedi desires.
To be honest I've often considered that an idea for combat in general. Instead of hp, characters have 'stamina' which they use to dodge or block and when they run out the attacks hit and kill instead... would look a bit more dramatic though it obviously requires more animation than the usual flinching most games do, if the opponent even flinches at all that is :3
That's probably a big part of it. You'd have to synch up attacks with dodges, and your character has to be able to dodge attacks that happen at one frequency while also launching its own attacks at another frequence, requiring ######loads of animation blending... It'd be quite a pita to implement. Not to mention a giant budgetary leech.
<!--quoteo(post=1801420:date=Oct 13 2010, 01:38 PM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Oct 13 2010, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm disappointed to hear all this bad business with the FFXIV MMO but on the topic of lightsabre battles in a mmo context... the only thing I could imagine them doing to fix the obvious stupidness of 'hitting a guy with a lightsabre and then he doesn't die right away' would be to make the entire battle comprised of the opponent ducking, weaving, blocking (with appropriate lightsabre or mandalorian mojometal) until he runs out of hp and THEN the sabre hits, slicing him neatly into however many pieces the jedi desires.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is exactly how they do it in the films and it's awesome.
It's also how they do it in the jedi knight series and it's equally awesome there.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
<!--quoteo(post=1801433:date=Oct 13 2010, 10:33 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Oct 13 2010, 10:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's probably a big part of it. You'd have to synch up attacks with dodges, and your character has to be able to dodge attacks that happen at one frequency while also launching its own attacks at another frequence, requiring ######loads of animation blending... It'd be quite a pita to implement. Not to mention a giant budgetary leech.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but do they want to do it or do they want to do it *right*?
Even with half and half blending of attacks and dodges (with some dodging/deflection/blocking) while the other half of the time it just 'hits' would probably make it feel a bit less wanky. I think KOTOR did something like this, but that was singleplayer.
<!--quoteo(post=1801436:date=Oct 13 2010, 05:23 PM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Oct 13 2010, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sure, but do they want to do it or do they want to do it *right*?
Even with half and half blending of attacks and dodges (with some dodging/deflection/blocking) while the other half of the time it just 'hits' would probably make it feel a bit less wanky. I think KOTOR did something like this, but that was singleplayer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KOTOR does it and neverwinter nights does it as well, and KOTOR is kinda built on top of NWN as far as I know.
NWN does it in multiplayer as well and it works, but it does require the D20 round system to work.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1801443:date=Oct 13 2010, 02:31 PM:name=DY357LX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DY357LX @ Oct 13 2010, 02:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801443"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only MMO I've seen that didn't come with X days free.
(WoW came with 30 days, I think EVE came with 10, CoHeroes 30 days etc.)
No 2/7/10 day trial is also a big kick in the gonads.
And the only people with guest passes are the people that paid over the odds for the Collectors Edition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seriously? It DOESN'T come with 30 days free?
Ouch, that's really a "Don't buy our game, it sucks" move.
I mean, I got a beta key a little while back and gave up as it was unplayable.
Wait, WHAT? You buy the game, install it, zero-day patch it, create your account, and the VERY FIRST THING it does is say "insert coin?" You've got to be ###### kidding me.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1801465:date=Oct 13 2010, 05:35 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Oct 13 2010, 05:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait, are we talking about star wars or final fantasy now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> FFXIV I think :P
DY357LXPlaying since day 1. Still can't Comm.EnglandJoin Date: 2002-10-27Member: 1651Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1801449:date=Oct 13 2010, 08:31 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thansal @ Oct 13 2010, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801449"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It should be noted: I don't find the lack of a trial a problem. I haven't seen an MMO come out that had a trial at launch.
Actually, let me rephrase that: I don't fine the lack of a trial surprising. I'm a strong proponent of trials and demos for games.
And yah, poking around, not one retail site mentions that there is game time included, thoguh none of them point this out either...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The cover of this <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Final-Fantasy-XIV-Standard-PC/dp/B003S3RNJW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1287002895&sr=8-2" target="_blank">"Standard Edition"</a> DOES have "30 free days" on the cover. (Amazon exclusive?)
But on the forums I've searched, everyone has complained about the lack of X free days.
Maybe it's changed, but that still doesn't change the fact that the game is terrible in every aspect.
<!--quoteo(post=1801400:date=Oct 13 2010, 02:44 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Oct 13 2010, 02:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1801400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes SentrySteve. Goddammit, <b>yes.</b> I'm glad somebody else sees it.
Of course the entire problem with magical space knights in MMOs is that lore-wise they're blatantly overpowered and their only weakness is their emo-ness. "Oh, my soul is so dark, like a black lotus blossom. Watch me become The Evulz for no apparent reason." Any portrayal of jedi in MMOs is going to be either overpowered or not true to the source material. Still, maybe we could overlook that if it didn't seem like the first step of lightsaber combat in ye olden days was "nail your feet to the ground."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it wouldn't be easy to balance but it's possible. One of the best balanced games I've ever seen is a mod for Jedi Knight Academy called <a href="http://www.moviebattles.com/" target="_blank">Movie Battles II.</a> What makes this so awesome is that every class has the potential to be 'overpowered' if the player is skilled enough. There are classes (jedi / sith, mandalorians / ARC troopers, soliders, dekas / wookies, bounter hunter/heroes (aka snipers)) and each one can counter another. Even more amazing is that they're all balanced according to the movies. Jedi's really do one hit people, mando's can fly around and shoot their lasers / rockets, wookies can boss people in melee and have a boat load of health, etc.
I know an FPS mod is different from an MMO but if you're doing star wars that means you have to include jedi / sith and they should be awesome. Every time. By taking the "press X attack thirteen times to kill the enemy with your lightsaber" approach it means they're lazy.
/edit: btw, if you have JK:A, or even if you don't and you're bored, get JK:A and download MBII. It's great. The community completely sucks and it's full of 12 year olds trying to be trolls but the game is amazing.
What happened to you Final Fantasy? You used to be <i>cool.</i>
Actually I think the problem is that very little has actually changed; they throw in a new gimicky levelling up system which may or may not suck enough to make the whole game terrible by extension, but otherwise its the same team of androgynous 17-year-olds fighting the same (ish) monsters using the same weapons and spells. Some game mechanics age gracefully, others, not so much.
Comments
I find it kinda amusing that MMOs (and many other games) often have these dramatic CG battles that make the actual in-game fighting look silly and stilted :3
<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FinalFantasyXIV" target="_blank"><img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/15x03yv.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Hmm, I almost read this as an "in soviet Russia", but then in Imperial Japan...
Never mind me...
That's my biggest problem with the upcoming Star Wars MMO, Star Wars The Old Republic. The combat just looks so damn boring with the usual "press 1 to do this attack." To make it worse, you could be attacking with a <i>lightsaber</i> but the stupid rodent (or anything really) doesn't die until you hit it 15 times. SW:TOR is a game trying to baes itself in immersion and story as much as possible and nothing destroys that more than watching your jedi's lightsaber do no more harm than minor bruising.
Then again, this thread was about FFXIV, but you know...
Of course the entire problem with magical space knights in MMOs is that lore-wise they're blatantly overpowered and their only weakness is their emo-ness. "Oh, my soul is so dark, like a black lotus blossom. Watch me become The Evulz for no apparent reason." Any portrayal of jedi in MMOs is going to be either overpowered or not true to the source material. Still, maybe we could overlook that if it didn't seem like the first step of lightsaber combat in ye olden days was "nail your feet to the ground."
For a MMO..... those bounty hunters better have some seriously awesome equipment 'cause last I heard I had Force Pull and Force Speed.
Re: Civ5, holy ###### did they not learn from Civ3 and Civ4? Infinite City Sprawl is broken!!!! Monetary system broken!!! AI is stupid and can't do tactical battles!
This is worse than Elemental, which mostly had technical and UI issues but a stellar game underneath. Civ5 just has broken mechanics built in (and yet still managed to sneak in technical issues).
the game is clearly incomplete, and the combat system though better than ffxi suffers too much from the lag delay to make it actually enjoyable
I'd like to make this clear in my jagged english- the combat system in ffxiv is a lot better than it's predecessor -in theory, but the lag isolates anyone outside of JP
I don't really know if my NDA still applies but I'll just repeat what other people have said and correct any errors :P
The review also doesn't touch on the microtransactions and monthly payment details, which probably bear mentioning in any mmo they'd recommend. :P
Finally, the majority of the CG is infact done on the fly with the ingame engine, the graphics are really that good (remember the promo video where they showed the battle on the ship for example, this is an ingame scripted fight, but yeah combat is never going to be as elegant directly :p) it's a very pretty game :\
I dunno if I'm even allowed to give an opinion, but put it this way I won't be buying it... and I have no life. (and I even got talked into buying minecraft :O)
Edit: And I share your deep disatisfaction with Civ5... though I did get a reasonable amount of play out of it :\
Which is exactly how they do it in the films and it's awesome.
It's also how they do it in the jedi knight series and it's equally awesome there.
Sure, but do they want to do it or do they want to do it *right*?
Even with half and half blending of attacks and dodges (with some dodging/deflection/blocking) while the other half of the time it just 'hits' would probably make it feel a bit less wanky. I think KOTOR did something like this, but that was singleplayer.
Even with half and half blending of attacks and dodges (with some dodging/deflection/blocking) while the other half of the time it just 'hits' would probably make it feel a bit less wanky. I think KOTOR did something like this, but that was singleplayer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KOTOR does it and neverwinter nights does it as well, and KOTOR is kinda built on top of NWN as far as I know.
NWN does it in multiplayer as well and it works, but it does require the D20 round system to work.
(WoW came with 30 days, I think EVE came with 10, CoHeroes 30 days etc.)
No 2/7/10 day trial is also a big kick in the gonads.
And the only people with guest passes are the people that paid over the odds for the Collectors Edition.
(WoW came with 30 days, I think EVE came with 10, CoHeroes 30 days etc.)
No 2/7/10 day trial is also a big kick in the gonads.
And the only people with guest passes are the people that paid over the odds for the Collectors Edition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously? It DOESN'T come with 30 days free?
Ouch, that's really a "Don't buy our game, it sucks" move.
I mean, I got a beta key a little while back and gave up as it was unplayable.
Actually, let me rephrase that: I don't fine the lack of a trial surprising. I'm a strong proponent of trials and demos for games.
And yah, poking around, not one retail site mentions that there is game time included, thoguh none of them point this out either...
FFXIV I think :P
Actually, let me rephrase that: I don't fine the lack of a trial surprising. I'm a strong proponent of trials and demos for games.
And yah, poking around, not one retail site mentions that there is game time included, thoguh none of them point this out either...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The cover of this <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Final-Fantasy-XIV-Standard-PC/dp/B003S3RNJW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1287002895&sr=8-2" target="_blank">"Standard Edition"</a> DOES have "30 free days" on the cover. (Amazon exclusive?)
But on the forums I've searched, everyone has complained about the lack of X free days.
Maybe it's changed, but that still doesn't change the fact that the game is terrible in every aspect.
Of course the entire problem with magical space knights in MMOs is that lore-wise they're blatantly overpowered and their only weakness is their emo-ness. "Oh, my soul is so dark, like a black lotus blossom. Watch me become The Evulz for no apparent reason." Any portrayal of jedi in MMOs is going to be either overpowered or not true to the source material. Still, maybe we could overlook that if it didn't seem like the first step of lightsaber combat in ye olden days was "nail your feet to the ground."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it wouldn't be easy to balance but it's possible. One of the best balanced games I've ever seen is a mod for Jedi Knight Academy called <a href="http://www.moviebattles.com/" target="_blank">Movie Battles II.</a> What makes this so awesome is that every class has the potential to be 'overpowered' if the player is skilled enough. There are classes (jedi / sith, mandalorians / ARC troopers, soliders, dekas / wookies, bounter hunter/heroes (aka snipers)) and each one can counter another. Even more amazing is that they're all balanced according to the movies. Jedi's really do one hit people, mando's can fly around and shoot their lasers / rockets, wookies can boss people in melee and have a boat load of health, etc.
I know an FPS mod is different from an MMO but if you're doing star wars that means you have to include jedi / sith and they should be awesome. Every time. By taking the "press X attack thirteen times to kill the enemy with your lightsaber" approach it means they're lazy.
/edit: btw, if you have JK:A, or even if you don't and you're bored, get JK:A and download MBII. It's great. The community completely sucks and it's full of 12 year olds trying to be trolls but the game is amazing.
Actually I think the problem is that very little has actually changed; they throw in a new gimicky levelling up system which may or may not suck enough to make the whole game terrible by extension, but otherwise its the same team of androgynous 17-year-olds fighting the same (ish) monsters using the same weapons and spells. Some game mechanics age gracefully, others, not so much.
... but it sure is pretty looking.
So was FF8, I still hated it.
bad
b00m. /signed