no frag score ( + feign death)
Ahab
Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7851Members
Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7851Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Enhanced teamplay be removing the frag score?</div>Hey guys. I was wondering if teamplay in NS2 could be enhanced if the developers removed the frag score? You'd get points for fragging but they would mix up entirely with the points you get for other objectives like building things, welding other people and fulfilling tasks from the commander. I think this would be a bonus to teamplay.?.
Now my second idea: Even remove death messages so you cannot tell if you killed an alien/marine or not and combine this with a feign death option. You may have a small chance to get out of a fight alive if your squad is irradiated.
What do you think?
Now my second idea: Even remove death messages so you cannot tell if you killed an alien/marine or not and combine this with a feign death option. You may have a small chance to get out of a fight alive if your squad is irradiated.
What do you think?
Comments
Now my second idea: Even remove death messages so you cannot tell if you killed an alien/marine or not and combine this with a feign death option. You may have a small chance to get out of a fight alive if your squad is irradiated.
What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i disagree, an fps by popular definition rewards the individual who kills the most. if i can't strive to be better than my peers in equal (or at least balanced) competition, then i don't want to play.
teamplay is increased when lesser skilled plays learn to mimic and group around more skilled players. the natural leaders will emerge and lead teams on hive/cc rushes. just as a natural leader will comm his team around a strategy built on observation of his team members' skills.
Removing the frag counter all together would be a poor move in my mind.
I hate feign death stuff. TF2 handled it right where if you're paying attention it's obvious when they're feigning death.
But still. Fragwhoring isn't NS, imo. But with NS2 being entirely different we have to see.
It is a bit to fast for my liking from what ive seen. at least on the alpha map. you have skulks in your face litteraly 3 seconds after round start.
edit: goddamn typos
For once, pub marines did play truely as team, looking out for each other and covering each other's ass.
never seen it after that without server patrons.
However, do not remove kill/death messages.
But still. Fragwhoring isn't NS, imo. But with NS2 being entirely different we have to see.
It is a bit to fast for my liking from what ive seen. at least on the alpha map. you have skulks in your face litteraly 3 seconds after round start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats true
after they put the killcounter back in game i noticed a signifcant decrease of the teamwork on both sides. The most played this game then like counterstrike to get the biggest epeen. I always thougt this change was the worst decision (after combat mode ;))
just do it like in TF2 and show only summary of points for kills/assist/builds ect. like back then in NS 1.4
Whilst damage caused or objectives completed is important, at the end of the day in any game the final result tends to show that the team that killed the most wins. So it is important.
I think a good compromise would be, as mentioned by Harimau, to show the frags after a round while mixing them with the other points during the game. I like this idea. People would play a round to the end and would only see the frags after their last team switch. This would keep good players from changing the team when its losing because they lose this information.
I'd also like to mention that if this option was implemented from the start it would probably find far more acceptance. If it is delivered in a patch people have the feeling of losing something.
I agree that feign death is an awkward option because its rather annoying while it doesn't add much to the game.
I think that's roughly picking the worst of both worlds. It gives the frag gratification while still removing any chance of actually learning to understand the game process through scoreboard.
The reason why I'd like to see the frag counts is that they give me good feedback on how the team did, when the team was doing good and which parts of it were doing good. Simply showing the frags afterwards isn't going to give you any idea of how the round progressed, it could be that half of the frags were accumulated only after the round was already won or lost.
Team switching is pretty inexistant problem. It can be controlled through admins and plugins for example even if the vanilla game allows it. Also, any 'good player' is going to see the rough state of the team, scoreboard or not.
In general I don't like the way games compromise a lot of things. Either you choose to hide the scoreboard, hoping that the teamwork benefits or you show the scoreboard and hope it allows players to understand and receive feedback from the game. If you stay in the middle, it's most likely going to give very little benefit to either side.
Like I said before, often the happy medium doesn't exist. Kills matter. Damage can matter, but there's also a ton of ways to be dealing useless damage or simply barely not enough damage to get the job done.
I don't think displaying the damage is bad - it's an extremely nice detail- but I don't think it's a kill count replacement either. There's a world of difference between leaving skulk at 1 hp or killing it. You can also be delivering thousands of damage to a fade while a good player just deals the critical 600 dmg once. Of course kill counts aren't perfect source of information either, but I think they are more viable in most cases.
<!--quoteo(post=1800807:date=Oct 5 2010, 12:06 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Oct 5 2010, 12:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1800807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Graph Kills (or deaths) versus Time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think instant feedback would be better. I may have the patience to compare the graph to the round progression and try to learn to recognize the patterns ingame to understand the future rounds while they are still in progress, but I can't go blaming anyone who doesn't want to get so involved with a computer game. The more accessible the information is, the better.
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As usual, I don't ultimately care if the frags are there, but I'd like to see some kind of plan and purpose on whatever ends up in the game. Just blindly staying in the middle ground rarely ends up being a memorable gaming experience.
Also it does not credit those who are playing more of a supportive role as much. Or those focused on taking out structures.
Having some sort of pie chart might be cool, or has been mentioned a graph that sort of stipulates the kind of player you are depending on what you did the most (structures built/destroyed/kills/damage/def(damage near to alien buildings)/attack(damage near to marines structures)
I think it would be really great to have a better understanding on the mirco level to what kind of player you are.
You're talking about frag count as a reward and gratification. I'm talking about frags as a source of feedback and game analysis tool.
Frags give you a good estimate of succesful encouters your team has had on a round of NS. Damage on the other hand tells you that the encouters were roughly even. What matters is who won the encouters. That helps player to understand how the round went, which parts were going fine and when it all was decided.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also it does not credit those who are playing more of a supportive role as much. Or those focused on taking out structures.
Having some sort of pie chart might be cool, or has been mentioned a graph that sort of stipulates the kind of player you are depending on what you did the most (structures built/destroyed/kills/damage/def(damage near to alien buildings)/attack(damage near to marines structures)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd really like to have an improved score system in NS. I think the old awards plugin would have been extremely awesome if it promoted more teamwork actions instead of useless factors. So, all those are good additional information.
However, the point is that frags matter. Teamwork and strategy are used to put yourself in good positions for fragging, but in general the team that frags the most in the long run also ends up winning. I'd really like to promote the teamwork charts in addition. The teamwork charts can further help you to understand what made the frags go the way the did, but none of them give you as direct indication of the round progress as frags do.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it would be really great to have a better understanding on the mirco level to what kind of player you are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't completely understand what kind of micro level you're talking about. I'm an inactive competetive player that now spends most of his time cursing the bad connection and playing occassionally public, mostly because I absolutely love the feel NS has due to HL engine and skirmish gameplay.
As for frags, I love the details that allow you to understand the flow NS has. Obviously I also enjoy fragging people, but most of all I just want the game to give players enough of information to learn understand the flow of NS and then proceed to adjust and adapt the play according to the situations and alter the flow of a round in dynamic ways.
+Score, and Death Messages are going to remain, regardless. You would still get instant feedback.