Game time.
Papayas
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
Comments
That's one thing I like about NS1. Don't slip up and usually at the least the game will keep going.
Of which maybe 80% is actually effective gameplay time where the teams are deciding the winner. I'd first try to cut down unnecessary time it takes to finish the games before even considering anything else.
So... where do we go from here?
So... where do we go from here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh ok then!
*Mind changed completely*
I bet the rounds won't be 20 minutes long. If the people are good enough then the rounds could last for ages.
But I do sure hope people make larger maps. Even if they are as bad as the NS1 (Details) I couldn't care.
Edit:
I amount of points needed to gestate into another creature should be higher. I read that the Onos will only cost 30 points.
They lack any ranged ability or mobility powers, so mobile or high-damage marines have an advantage against them, having a single class that kills everything is silly.
Also long games suck, change the map and start a new game because I get bored of doing the same thing on the same map with the same team for two hours.
*Mind changed completely*
I bet the rounds won't be 20 minutes long. If the people are good enough then the rounds could last for ages.
But I do sure hope people make larger maps. Even if they are as bad as the NS1 (Details) I couldn't care.
Edit:
I amount of points needed to gestate into another creature should be higher. I read that the Onos will only cost 30 points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I think the amount of points needed to gestate should stay low, because that way all the classes can be balanced on their strengths and weaknesses, like Chris talks about, rather than having to make the Onos so powerful that it's not fun to play against just because its cost is so high.
The Onos in NS1?
Was rather underused, a good fade would get more kills and basically win the game because they can cut off marine resource income and prevent them from expanding, an onos is only really good for bumrushing bases with and is prohibitively expensive even for that.
No, the Onos in NS2.
was raped due to combat (afaik CO and NS where based on the same balancing).
An early onos vs low marines is deadly, even if they stock up quickly, the onos might have enough experience already to buy the necessary DC and MC abilitys, not to mention focus.
In my experience, any alien lifeform is adept at taking down resource towers. Lerk, fade, or skulk mobility saves more time than Onos bonus damage. Gorges are the wost RT killers because they have low DPS, have low mobility, and are super vulnerable.
You are correct that in NS1 games, usually one marine at max comes to save an RT (if any come at all... tactics fail), and a skulk might be forced to run away instead of fight due to fragility.
However, an onos has very little escape ability. A fade has much better escape ability (use vents, blink as 1st hive ability) and has more killing power than an onos (they both kill single marines easily, and fades can kill multiple marines instead of running for cover due to terribly low hp (950+1200=2150, which is 4 LMG clips) for its hitbox size (which basically means auto-hit unless the marine players are drunk) ).
Fades are also cheaper.
Thus, fades are better resource tower killers than Onoses. Teams of skulks are even better because they are automatic costless Tier 0 technology. This means a team of skulks can kill multiple RTs simultaneously, meaning at least one will go down unless the marines don't fail at tactics (unlikely).
Onoses are okay at killing RTs, but they are hardly the best lifeform for the job. I'd put them above the gorge, equal with the lerk, and below the (pair or team of) skulk(s) and fade.
To put it simply, you're wrong. The onos of NS1 is broken as a concept and its balance problems usually swing toward onoses being underpowered. A super high cost lifeform (you MIGHT be able to go onos 1/3 games? Never mind having it out for a significant time period) with huge hitbox to compensate for high health (this is a red flag for an unbalancable feature), stun in an FPS, insta kill combined with paralysis in FPS... Its unbalancable power must be compensated by huge cost and floored evasive ability.
It's sort of like the Mothership in SC2. It's a cute toy. It's rarity and powers make it more enjoyable to obtain.
Unknown Worlds Entertainment doesn't have room for cute toys any more and never did (NS1 Onos = poor design, but excusable for a mod), so I'm glad onoses were changed drastically for NS2.
Agreed. I'm actually experienced (and somewhat comfortable) in playing 45 minute games (of other games, not NS) - the less action that happens, the longer the game seems to play. "Time flies when you're having fun." I think for NS2 I'd probably prefer to play 30 minute games (give or take 10 minutes).
Having said that though, I think that UWE want to open NS2 up to the casual crowd - but I think smaller, tighter maps can achieve that. So essentially, it mainly depends on the mappers?
I totally agree with you. The bigger the map, the less combat, the more tactics, the longer the game. As others have said; we haven't acctaully played a 'playable' version yet so we can't decide whether it is too short or not. I don't think we should be abled to decide that during the Alpha either. Considering the fact that we can't make turrets on the marines side... It limits the marine side a lot (that will change though)
<!--quoteo(post=1793043:date=Aug 9 2010, 05:47 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Aug 9 2010, 05:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1793043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unknown Worlds Entertainment doesn't have room for cute toys any more and never did (NS1 Onos = poor design, but excusable for a mod), so I'm glad onoses were changed drastically for NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good.
Onos being cheaper now WOULD mean that they will be put into more use than NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1793068:date=Aug 9 2010, 07:39 AM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Aug 9 2010, 07:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1793068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I miss the 1+ hour games... so funny to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It depends who you are playing with.
And that turns this into a personal attack instead of a discussion. Good for you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, the Onos was underpowered and hard to use in most situations. It felt too fragile for what it was supposed to be, and the fact that I am saying the tank was great for killing RTs should raise flags to begin with. That's not what such a high cost lifeform should be doing.
Strictly talking about the Onos' capability for taking down RTs, he was the best though. Onos could just kill RTs faster than any other lifeform, by the numbers (greater damage per second than any other). The other factors tend to be more or less important based on what is going on in the specific game.
You are right that skulks and fades have more mobility, but they also take longer to take down the rts. In the absence of motion tracking and jetpacks, the amount of time saved due to the Onos' double damage meant that you could kill an RT in one go.
Fades and skulks as RT killers also cause the same issue: it takes effective offensive units off the front lines. Fades especially. Skulks were only really effective at disrupting marine res flow on a large scale when done as a team effort, not solo. Lerks were the absolute worst when it came to killing RTs. Gorge's at least could drop an MC and use bile bomb assuming there was a second hive up.
As to the NS2 Onos, I can't wait to see how he plays. I don't want NS1 rehashed, so I am perfectly okay with UWE making changes. I know that they will make it fun, and if it's not fun at first, they will work at it until it is.
Stuff like that usually happens when it's like 5 vs 5 etc (imagine 3 commanders and 2 marines in NS2 vs 2 fades + 1 gorge + 1 lork). So perhaps forcefully disable certain weaponry, lifeforms, and upgrades if the server player count is too low to support them? Or maybe just dynamically adjust resource collection depending on player count? (although that might affect siege-timer-based maps... so perhaps "map-time" itself would need to be slowed... including timers and res-per-second ?
"I have a life lol, I have a job, I have a family, I'm on my lunch break." Then they play MW2 for three hours and post to forums until 2am.
My only love of NS was for the long matches, and the marvelous pacing and suspense enabled by their length and physical size. I will be pretty disappointed if this isn't possible in NS2. I don't say it should be necessary, only possible. Still, I don't see the wisdom of short matches being the norm. We've got plenty of excellent games like that already. Why would I play a condensed version of a naturally long game, when I already play other excellent games that fulfill the urge for a 20 minute thrill?
This is what happened to Tribes. Through inaction on Dynamix's part its life narrowed to nothing but short CTF matches. Along came Battlefield 1942. <i>Oh hey guys! What's up?</i> Hours later the Tribes franchise ceased to exist.