<!--quoteo(post=1812234:date=Dec 1 2010, 06:09 AM:name=Karba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karba @ Dec 1 2010, 06:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DI gameplay entry is gone from progress list ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That makes me sad.
<!--quoteo(post=1811493:date=Nov 28 2010, 11:04 AM:name=FluffyM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FluffyM @ Nov 28 2010, 11:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Urgh, hate random spread :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realize that, functionally speaking, random spread is no different than centre weighted spread? Either way, you the player have no control over where each individual bullet lands (unless the weapon is laser accurate). In both cases, you can only put your crosshair over the target, and hope that most of the bullets will hit. Changing the spread to random is essentially the same thing as a less accurate centre-weighted spread.
<!--quoteo(post=1812234:date=Dec 1 2010, 08:09 AM:name=Karba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karba @ Dec 1 2010, 08:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DI gameplay entry is gone from progress list ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems only the changes that will be included in 157 are on the list.
I'm thinking we'll get 157 on Monday. It always seems like the patches can make a Friday release, but then slip by the weekend. Happy to see all the gameplay fixes going on. Can't wait to see what inferred rendering will do for us, but that won't be until build 158 at the earliest.
<!--quoteo(post=1812447:date=Dec 2 2010, 05:15 AM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Dec 2 2010, 05:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812447"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You do realize that, functionally speaking, random spread is no different than centre weighted spread? Either way, you the player have no control over where each individual bullet lands (unless the weapon is laser accurate). In both cases, you can only put your crosshair over the target, and hope that most of the bullets will hit. Changing the spread to random is essentially the same thing as a less accurate centre-weighted spread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to disagree with this, as center weighted spread (from one accurate starting point) is inherently more precise, and the circumstances between the weapons are different. Deviation can be controlled on the AR to the point that the vast majority of all bullets go exactly where the player points them into whichever size target they want. The shotgun has no such advantage and must deal with the fact that due to random spread, pellets can cluster in areas that aren't even close to what the user is aiming at - if it's weighted towards the center however, it comes out in more of an even cone, allowing one relatively the same damage per shot so long as the shot is aimed the same each time.
<!--quoteo(post=1812447:date=Dec 2 2010, 11:15 AM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Dec 2 2010, 11:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812447"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You do realize that, functionally speaking, random spread is no different than centre weighted spread? Either way, you the player have no control over where each individual bullet lands (unless the weapon is laser accurate). In both cases, you can only put your crosshair over the target, and hope that most of the bullets will hit. Changing the spread to random is essentially the same thing as a less accurate centre-weighted spread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What Faustinian said. I also realize that spread doesn't have to be weighted at all.
Or do what they did in NS1 where you guaranteed that a certain number fell in a smaller, tighter cone of spread for the shotgun, and the others were scattered further out. This give a tighter cone that's more consistent in the center, but only for maybe 50% of the pellets.
The NS1 shotgun was not random at all. The spread was always the same. There were 5 pellets in the center and 5 in a wider pattern. They didn't change a single pixel from one shot to the next. When I got the custom x-hair that showed this, I suddenly became much more effective with the shotty.
I'm not really biased in any direction on how to implement it in NS2. I just hope they make the x-hair representative of the spread pattern.
<strike>The shotgun we have now is broken...</strike>
Thx devs! You redeemed yourself with the latest build. Shotgun is MUCH better. Also you had me freaking out when the "change shotgun 6 shots to 8 (ask cory)" was removed from pivotal tracker. Good to see you changed it to 8 and upped the max ammo to 32 shots! Also the spread seems much more constrained IMO. The improved registration on alien structures ###### pwns and i shotgunned down a hive!!! lol.
<!--quoteo(post=1812601:date=Dec 2 2010, 09:46 PM:name=aliasWarlord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aliasWarlord @ Dec 2 2010, 09:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812601"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ouch... the voice "improve server performance when more players are connected" never started and disappeared from the list! :((<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I imagine that is because it is something to do with a larger picture. Hence, not instantly fixable.
For what it's worth, I think the new progress page is an awesome way to keep us updated. I'm amazed at how much you guys cram in each iteration! When I first looked at this week I thought "how the hell could a team that small get through even 8 of those tasks in a week" but it looks like you are kicking some ass. Keep up the good work!
Progress is going faster than expected. I said a patch wouldn't come until Monday, but maybe the tweet was right, tonight or tomorrow could actually be feasible.
I'm impressed, the initial information I received about UWE's work ethics has been mostly proven wrong. There is still the issue of large amounts of tasks going missing from the list. But even that point has taken a beating with the amount of tasks that have been completed with this update, even if a lot of them seem minor - even the smallest problems can be the hardest to solve.
All the tasks that appeared were probably ones they were adding, remember the progress page only shows what it thinks they can complete in one week. Im sure all those items are still on the list, just not for this week.
<!--quoteo(post=1812643:date=Dec 2 2010, 05:44 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Dec 2 2010, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812643"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Great to see so much done in such a short amount of time, UWE! Hope you all had a good rest over the holiday. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not the holidays yet. I expect at least another good 2 weeks of work. HOP TO IT.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1812646:date=Dec 2 2010, 10:00 PM:name=minim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (minim @ Dec 2 2010, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Allow commander to buy/drop weapons"
:O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Wait. Wth.. *looks at progress page* Holy crap, you're right. What the crap?
Seeing the 157 changelog and things like the above make me worried that NS2 is becoming modernized NS1, instead of an evolution of the NS concept. I hope I'm wrong.
Marines will still buy their own weapons, this is just another option added in. This way since the commander is in charge.. and wants the team to shot gun rush, he can supply those who can't afford a SG with them.
<!--quoteo(post=1812646:date=Dec 2 2010, 09:00 PM:name=minim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (minim @ Dec 2 2010, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Allow commander to buy/drop weapons"
:O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHAT THE ######!!! Really we don't have the spare fps to render 300x dropped weapons!
The ONLY way i wouldn't mind this is if the gun was free, but the marine still had a choice if he wanted it, where if he selected the purchased weapon from the armory menu that it would be free, or perhaps an alternative where the com could put money into an armory which made all guns and equipment free until the money ran out. Definitely 100% against "dropped-weapons" in the model-spammed-NS1-marine-base sense.
<!--quoteo(post=1812688:date=Dec 3 2010, 03:08 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Dec 3 2010, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait. Wth.. *looks at progress page* Holy crap, you're right. What the crap?
Seeing the 157 changelog and things like the above make me worried that NS2 is becoming modernized NS1, instead of an evolution of the NS concept. I hope I'm wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems that way to me. Looks like they've changed their minds or would rather stick with a tried and tested method as it worked before. Personally I'd rather the weapon go into the armoury instead of on the floor looks a lot less cheap and makes more sense.
Comments
That makes me sad.
getting feedback, adjusting, rinse and repeat
imo 2 smaller patches before holiday season > 1 larger one
You do realize that, functionally speaking, random spread is no different than centre weighted spread? Either way, you the player have no control over where each individual bullet lands (unless the weapon is laser accurate). In both cases, you can only put your crosshair over the target, and hope that most of the bullets will hit. Changing the spread to random is essentially the same thing as a less accurate centre-weighted spread.
<!--quoteo(post=1812234:date=Dec 1 2010, 08:09 AM:name=Karba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karba @ Dec 1 2010, 08:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DI gameplay entry is gone from progress list ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems only the changes that will be included in 157 are on the list.
I have to disagree with this, as center weighted spread (from one accurate starting point) is inherently more precise, and the circumstances between the weapons are different. Deviation can be controlled on the AR to the point that the vast majority of all bullets go exactly where the player points them into whichever size target they want. The shotgun has no such advantage and must deal with the fact that due to random spread, pellets can cluster in areas that aren't even close to what the user is aiming at - if it's weighted towards the center however, it comes out in more of an even cone, allowing one relatively the same damage per shot so long as the shot is aimed the same each time.
What Faustinian said.
I also realize that spread doesn't have to be weighted at all.
I'm not really biased in any direction on how to implement it in NS2. I just hope they make the x-hair representative of the spread pattern.
I'm pretty sure in 3.2 at least spread was pseudo-randomized.
Proof:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/changelogs/v31-changelog.html" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/cha...-changelog.html</a>
Thx devs! You redeemed yourself with the latest build. Shotgun is MUCH better. Also you had me freaking out when the "change shotgun 6 shots to 8 (ask cory)" was removed from pivotal tracker. Good to see you changed it to 8 and upped the max ammo to 32 shots! Also the spread seems much more constrained IMO. The improved registration on alien structures ###### pwns and i shotgunned down a hive!!! lol.
I imagine that is because it is something to do with a larger picture. Hence, not instantly fixable.
all good.
all good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
RIGHT :)
seems Build 157 is not that far away!
I'm impressed, the initial information I received about UWE's work ethics has been mostly proven wrong. There is still the issue of large amounts of tasks going missing from the list. But even that point has taken a beating with the amount of tasks that have been completed with this update, even if a lot of them seem minor - even the smallest problems can be the hardest to solve.
It's not the holidays yet. I expect at least another good 2 weeks of work. HOP TO IT.
j/k, <3 you guys UWE.
:O
:O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Wait. Wth.. *looks at progress page*
Holy crap, you're right. What the crap?
Seeing the 157 changelog and things like the above make me worried that NS2 is becoming modernized NS1, instead of an evolution of the NS concept. I hope I'm wrong.
:O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHAT THE ######!!! Really we don't have the spare fps to render 300x dropped weapons!
The ONLY way i wouldn't mind this is if the gun was free, but the marine still had a choice if he wanted it, where if he selected the purchased weapon from the armory menu that it would be free, or perhaps an alternative where the com could put money into an armory which made all guns and equipment free until the money ran out. Definitely 100% against "dropped-weapons" in the model-spammed-NS1-marine-base sense.
Holy crap, you're right. What the crap?
Seeing the 157 changelog and things like the above make me worried that NS2 is becoming modernized NS1, instead of an evolution of the NS concept. I hope I'm wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems that way to me. Looks like they've changed their minds or would rather stick with a tried and tested method as it worked before. Personally I'd rather the weapon go into the armoury instead of on the floor looks a lot less cheap and makes more sense.