Mac defence powerup + phase gate ability?
slayer.faith
Join Date: 2007-12-10 Member: 63127Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2007-12-10 Member: 63127Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Getting marines involved and allowing a stealth hive takedown</div>People want marines to be involved in building/expansion, without needing to 'escort' every mac. Plus the ability to ninja a hive down.
How about:
* Macs are more expensive than drifters. (cost lots more, but more ability/defence)
* macs fly, auto-regen (within reason) and are electrified while in powered/controlled area. (boost independence while in controlled area)
* macs drop to the ground like a brick when in uncontrolled area
* macs must be *carried* by marines into new area (no weapon for marine who carries it, requires human players to expand)
* macs can be used as mini phase gates ('bacon' points for marines)
* dropped macs allow the commander to directly drop a comm chair (which the dropped bot then builds)
Before you flame, I know escort missions suck, but you only need to 'escort'/carry them to *expand*. In powered areas they are independent and need no human escort.
So how do carried macs build into new areas?
If there is no hive on the location, the commander can now drop a comm chair, the mac uses batteries to power up and build it. (No electrify though, so easier for skulks to kill).
If there is a hive, it stays on the ground but allows marines to beacon to the location (a fixed number of times before the batteries are drained?). Once the hive is down, works as above. If the batteries are used up, it explodes, you lose.
This means that the marines:
* are directly involved in expanding out (ie, it takes human involvement)
* can still ninja a hive (ie, hard to do, but potentially a game changer)
* can still do the final desperate relocate (before their final base falls) (find a downed mac, drag to control point, beacon team)
Marines who want to build/expand are still important to the marine side. Just the scary/hard bit is the getting to the location with no weapon, not the quiet phase gate build that it was in NS1.
Misc alien ideas while Im brain dumping...
Gorges can 'use' an empty RT point to drop a drifter directly onto it in build mode. Or maybe that lets the alien comm drop a drifter directly onto the point.
Aliens need some way to also do the ninja relocate. Like the marine side it should be something that takes a lot of effort (epic if you do it and builds tension).
Maybe gorges can do some weird bile+xenocide to take down a comm chair control point and become a hive. (Maybe it takes 60 seconds as an egg and makes a lot of noise so you cant stealth into marine base and do it).
Or maybe they can use (the classic hit 'e') a control point for 60 seconds and then they explode, destroying the comm chair, dropping a hive and a few eggs.
In that way a sole alien player *might* be able to take a control point, but it's hard to do alone (but you might save your team).
In some ways it would be nice to be able to have a hive *AND* a comm chair on a control point. ;-) Im sure that would get sorted out pretty quickly. ;-)
Actually, thinking about it now, im starting to convince myself that the gorge should be required to spawn a hive (the glowing belly looks the same, so it is ment to be!)
How about:
* Macs are more expensive than drifters. (cost lots more, but more ability/defence)
* macs fly, auto-regen (within reason) and are electrified while in powered/controlled area. (boost independence while in controlled area)
* macs drop to the ground like a brick when in uncontrolled area
* macs must be *carried* by marines into new area (no weapon for marine who carries it, requires human players to expand)
* macs can be used as mini phase gates ('bacon' points for marines)
* dropped macs allow the commander to directly drop a comm chair (which the dropped bot then builds)
Before you flame, I know escort missions suck, but you only need to 'escort'/carry them to *expand*. In powered areas they are independent and need no human escort.
So how do carried macs build into new areas?
If there is no hive on the location, the commander can now drop a comm chair, the mac uses batteries to power up and build it. (No electrify though, so easier for skulks to kill).
If there is a hive, it stays on the ground but allows marines to beacon to the location (a fixed number of times before the batteries are drained?). Once the hive is down, works as above. If the batteries are used up, it explodes, you lose.
This means that the marines:
* are directly involved in expanding out (ie, it takes human involvement)
* can still ninja a hive (ie, hard to do, but potentially a game changer)
* can still do the final desperate relocate (before their final base falls) (find a downed mac, drag to control point, beacon team)
Marines who want to build/expand are still important to the marine side. Just the scary/hard bit is the getting to the location with no weapon, not the quiet phase gate build that it was in NS1.
Misc alien ideas while Im brain dumping...
Gorges can 'use' an empty RT point to drop a drifter directly onto it in build mode. Or maybe that lets the alien comm drop a drifter directly onto the point.
Aliens need some way to also do the ninja relocate. Like the marine side it should be something that takes a lot of effort (epic if you do it and builds tension).
Maybe gorges can do some weird bile+xenocide to take down a comm chair control point and become a hive. (Maybe it takes 60 seconds as an egg and makes a lot of noise so you cant stealth into marine base and do it).
Or maybe they can use (the classic hit 'e') a control point for 60 seconds and then they explode, destroying the comm chair, dropping a hive and a few eggs.
In that way a sole alien player *might* be able to take a control point, but it's hard to do alone (but you might save your team).
In some ways it would be nice to be able to have a hive *AND* a comm chair on a control point. ;-) Im sure that would get sorted out pretty quickly. ;-)
Actually, thinking about it now, im starting to convince myself that the gorge should be required to spawn a hive (the glowing belly looks the same, so it is ment to be!)
Comments
But anyway...
I like the idea that the MAC is only powered in marine controlled areas, and otherwise, acts like a portable building tool. Not sure about the beacon ability though, since we know there will be some kind of teleport ability in place of PGs, and there were strong hints in an update (beacon sound) that Obs beaconing was still in the game. Giving the marines a third teleportation ability seems like it will give the marines too much of an advantage in mobility (when it is traditionally the Alien team that has the most unrestricted access to the map via speed and vents).
Jokes aside, it seriously sounds like a good idea!
Good point about mobility. *ponders*
As a perma-gorge/build-monkey the two things I want to do are 1) help my side expand and 2) be able to directly influence the game (via some ninja hive siege or last minute relocate). If we can reproduce that, I think a lot of the 'weld' or 'gorge spawn rt' threads might be made happy.
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gorge/weld
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I think these 'we want to weld' threads are about people wanting to be involved and emotionally invested in the expansion of their side (both sides). People want to put in effort and risk to come out with some positive improvement for their side. I think that is what we need to produce (not just dump 'welding' back in).
Now no-one wants to be forced to weld for 3 mins (i support trying to get away from that) as building the marine base at the start does *not* make we want to weld more. It is dead time when Im just holding down a key doing nothing. (Although the delaying effect of slowing the marines a the start should be considered too.)
What I want from the helping the side expand is to be involved in that expansion. Currently the NS2 commander can take over all the control points (except the first enemy spawn one) without any other marines/aliens help. It would be great to make it more of a team effort (ie players + commanders vrs just commander).
It seems to me that what people want is the *challange* of expanding your teams influence at risk to yourself and the emotional investment of actually helping that advancement. Hopefully your skill (in stealth, etc) should help you, but it should be dangerous and risky and you should see some result from it (if you pull it off).
Is that what other people feel too? Dont just say 'i want to weld', what is it you *really* enjoy?
For me it is:
* helping my team, knowing that 'those 3 rts are mine' (especially as aliens as few people seem to drop rt's these days)
* building oc/tfs to seal off part of the map (owning part of the map)
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stealth/ninja builds
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Looking at NS1 hive siege: marine(s) have to get close to the hive, drop a phase (requires tech) and survive long enough to build. Once the phase is up, the team can jump in and attack the hive (and the aliens can 'hive use' to leap in and try and defend it). Battle ensues, the victor gets a great feeling of 'I helped siege/save the hive!', future generations tell stories of the great hive siege of '10, players feel epic!
One little action spawns an epic battle (almost like spawning a minigame actually).
Boiling that down, it is the coolness that a single or small group of players can start this epic battle for a hive. Its almost impossible for 1 player to totally take the hive, but more often they drop a phase and give their team a real chance to swing the direction of the game in an epic 'break out' battle.
You need to be able to convert the sneaky, risky actions of a single player into a chance for the whole team to 'grab' success. I know phase tech seems the lazy way to do it, but it seems the easy way to give the marines this ability. You cant allow a single marine to threaten a hive (because then splitting up and each taking on a hive/control point might become the win and that would break teamwork) but you might be able to let a single player let the *team* threaten a hive.
My feeling is that you need to:
* be able to (as a player) put in risky, dedicated, non-combat effort
* that the commander can convert that into an action
* that action is a chance for the *team* to jump ahead
Marine NS1:
* sneak build phase
* commander does bacon
* team takes hive down
Alien NS1:
* sneak past marines
* gorge drops hive
* (aliens movement/hive use to jump to newly dropped hive?)
Im not sure i have much of a brainstorm of how to do these two differently. I was lame and just went for 'carry builder', 'drop', 'phase' which is almost identical to what we have in NS1.
Anyone got any other ideas of how to do this?
Maybe single marine can drag a 'power cable' from one point to another (provides mac power)? (requires new art though :-( ).
Maybe the alien side can do something with dynamic infestation in some way.
But don't you think such a thing could exist as a separate entity. I mean it would aid in communication if you suggest to a com you want to use the "Infiltrator Bot" or something (a flying electrified phase gate with built in turret defenses :P).
one alien can drop over a period of time infestation in an area. not the area to be taken (be it a base or a res node point etc) but very near it much like phase gate drop areas.
the commander once there is enough infestation can use an ability to causes all infestation in an area to grow VERY VERY rapidly for 1 minute or so.
Infestation is supposed to shut down stuff if it coats it (as I understand that is either already in or its an aspect that will be implemented)
so basically one guy drops some initial infestation. it then goes through the doorway for example crawling along the floor, ceiling and sides of the walls at the same time.
if its a vent and caught right away you could just flamethower the hell out of it for a minute but the thing is its going to grow in all directions from all infestation in the area so the problem is once it gets to an even moderate size as long as you make it grow fast enough you wont be able to contain it, at least not easily, you take out a spot in the middle of an infestation for example and it will grow back from all sides quickly filling back in, and all the while expanding in other areas.
now its not much of a threat by itself but if it grew at a good rate so once it gets in the room proper it ties up 4 turrets and 1 or 2 players just trying to contain it you have a real advantage in trying to attack, all the turrets are overwhelmed trying to kill infestation and theres even a distracted player or two you can kill alot easier.
if you can just manage to keep the players distracted fighting you the infestation could crawl over the turrets shutting them down and then start to take down important buildings like an IP giving you the win.