<!--quoteo(post=1790836:date=Aug 2 2010, 07:34 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Aug 2 2010, 07:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790836"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The spark engine is designed to run on one core from what I can see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> but the problem is not the spark engine its Steam itself the new steam UI requires too many resources for one CPU to handle, and thats hwy it randomly diosconnects almost everyone with one
<!--quoteo(post=1790868:date=Aug 2 2010, 09:26 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 2 2010, 09:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790868"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sorta confused how 20% of Steam users have 1 core, and yet the OP states that due to having one core Steam won't run on his system....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is currently THE BIGGEST error on the steam forums! it goes by many names: "VAC disconnect bug" "client time out" "every server disconnect bug" but they are all caused by the new Steam UI needing too much resources, and a single core cant keep up i dont have a high paying job hell, i had to save up for 4 months to buy a cheap little graphics card back in 2008 so i could play l4d
<!--quoteo(post=1790858:date=Aug 2 2010, 08:49 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Aug 2 2010, 08:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heh. Half of that budget? Try a third or less. After all, you can pull quite a few parts forward (monitor, HDD, optical drives, case) and most of the things that won't are integrated into a majority of new motherboards. Leaving you to shell out for CPU, mobo, RAM, and maybe a new video card if you don't have one.
Really, I was looking at upgrading an old server running on an AthlonXP 2500+, and can make it VERY capable for under $200 (<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.435740" target="_blank">Athlon II X4, 2GB RAM, onboard vid/net/sound</a>). Leaving quite a bit to grab a decent video card if the onboard nVidia IGP isn't enough, and a new PSU if the old one is less stable.
Five hundred bucks is <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.435680" target="_blank">overkill</a> if you know what the hell you're doing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> you know what? ill look into this! thank you for your informative comment!
You have a PC that's about 40 years old, upgrade your PC. :) Also you couldn't even sell your CPU, in fact you'd have to pay someone to take it off you.
This makes me want to know exactly what hardware mr klean is running. Even semi modern dual cores outperform high end single cores on applications that only use one core.
<!--quoteo(post=1790740:date=Aug 2 2010, 02:33 PM:name=mr.klean)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mr.klean @ Aug 2 2010, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have a problem with steam you see, i have a single core CPU, and the new steam update doesnt do well with that SO, it randomly disconnects me and that sucks please, make a NON-STEAM version! for the 20% of steam users who have a single core CPU and cant afford a better one at the moment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree 100% remore steam i want a disk and the game not stream.
I don't think there's even a remote chance that the game will be sold in stores on a physical disk, since they'd need publishers for that, and publishers make stupid demands on what the game should be like (otherwise they'd already have an arrangement). So even if Steam was ditched - which would be suicidally stupid, considering every decent PC gamer uses Steam nowadays - it would still be digital download only.
Honestly, I've moved past using discs; digital distribution ftw. I don't know whether my DVD drive even works, and I haven't got a BluRay drive yet. As far as I know, SC2 is only on disc, and that's primarily the reason I haven't bothered getting it yet (I'm lazy). I like that if I want to play a game, I can hit up Steam, or the developer's website, download it, install it, and play. It makes <b>sense</b>, too, because you're going to download updates online anyway, not get them on disc. And when you downloaded NS1, you never got it on a disc; why should you feel any different now? Now I don't need to walk down to my nearest retailer, pay the inflated fee for a disc that could get damaged, install it and THEN download any necessary updates anyway. The digital age is wonderful. Retailers and discs are for the plebs. Cut out the middle man.
<!--quoteo(post=1791000:date=Aug 3 2010, 09:36 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 3 2010, 09:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Harimau: Good news, once you register a game on a battle.net account (just need the CD-key; you can throw away the CD itself) you can download it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, sweet. I might get it when I next get paid, then. I'm also going to pre-purchase Worms Reloaded for myself and my friends from Steam. (That's right, Steam.)
back to the op and the comments on the whole $40 > 1500 thing you can buy a dual core machine for about £250 these days.. there cheaper than game consoles in some aspect .. and the whole steam thing im guessing is for steam works .. you know to try and protect the devs hard work? Would you rather they slammed some hardcore anti piracy crap down your throats?
Another benefit to steam is the patches .. it takes an hour or so to get the patch from the devs to us .. thing about it, its much better this way.
If your using old tech and expecting new stuff to work you going to be disappointed. This is PC gaming remember .. your keep your tech upgraded or your not playing the latest stuff .. its basically the same as trying to get a playstation 1 to run playstation 3 games.
yeah when you start play from medium to close to low you know its time to upgreade. unless you are a graphic junky that need to max every thing out and still want 100+fps.
I starting my self to hitt the start of "medium" to high settings. (only high setting i care about is textures, in that im graphic junky. rest i care less. along gameplate works. hardcore gamer often (unless im wrong) play with low settings anyway for max preformance and game plate.
now on to steam.
Steam is nice in its ways. it has its darks sides as well.
But i think i read/heard somehere that there mite be a CD/DVD version if things goes well at launch (after alfa, beta).
The less than 20% of steam that has a single core are still playing TFC, CS, and puzzle games not NS2. You can buy a dual core desktop on ebay used for $140 or goto best buy and buy a 2.4ghz dual core eMachines for $280 lol. Pop in a decent GPU and you are golden for minimal requirements.
<!--quoteo(post=1791018:date=Aug 3 2010, 03:40 PM:name=Gibhunter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gibhunter @ Aug 3 2010, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The less than 20% of steam that has a single core are still playing TFC, CS, and puzzle games not NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was pretty much what I was trying to say. Probably should of made that point better.
Me and my housemate built a HTPC/server downstairs about 3 month ago. Its an Athlon II x245 with 4GB ram, 500GB drive and an AIO Gigabyte with a HD4200. And it cost us just over £200. Amazingly, It can run L4D2 and TF2 at 1366x768 on high and get 40fps. Which for onboard is pretty darn good. Add another £100 for a HD4870 or even less if you eBay a card.
Also the STEAM overlay, I thought it was hardware and that your GPU managed it?
Tho for the record if you're thinking of going with intel, you'll want an i7 of some sort or wait for the price to drop a bit since it's Socket LGA 1366. Otherwise you might find yourself in need of a new mobo not far down the line.
<!--quoteo(post=1790999:date=Aug 3 2010, 01:33 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 3 2010, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790999"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly, I've moved past using discs; digital distribution ftw. I don't know whether my DVD drive even works, and I haven't got a BluRay drive yet. As far as I know, SC2 is only on disc, and that's primarily the reason I haven't bothered getting it yet (I'm lazy). I like that if I want to play a game, I can hit up Steam, or the developer's website, download it, install it, and play. It makes <b>sense</b>, too, because you're going to download updates online anyway, not get them on disc. And when you downloaded NS1, you never got it on a disc; why should you feel any different now? Now I don't need to walk down to my nearest retailer, pay the inflated fee for a disc that could get damaged, install it and THEN download any necessary updates anyway. The digital age is wonderful. Retailers and discs are for the plebs. Cut out the middle man.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are the people who just sign everything over to digital distribution, trust and never question the system?
Hard copy formats will never, EVER go away. Rightly so, because the minute you start just letting everything you purchase and use be controlled digitally is the minute we should be concerned. I buy games on STEAM all the time, but I still purchase hard copies for big titles.
Hard copy formats will always, ALWAYS deteriorate. You can lose a disc, maybe when you're moving house, or maybe through carelessness. It can get damaged.
Digital on the other hand, that's always available - but it's clear the problem with you is that you've got a trust issue, or some sort of paranoia. Do you happen to use any online banking? Maybe you shouldn't.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1791159:date=Aug 3 2010, 09:30 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 3 2010, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hard copy formats will always, ALWAYS deteriorate. You can lose a disc, maybe when you're moving house, or maybe through carelessness. It can get damaged.
Digital on the other hand, that's always available - but it's clear the problem with you is that you've got a trust issue, or some sort of paranoia. Do you happen to use any online banking? Maybe you shouldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tell me about it! not to mention EA for instance uses very shoddy disks in the first place. I have issue with all battlefields I bought from the store, upon arrival @ home the game could not install due to disk errors... Same goes for GTA4...
You should try ea download manager, it might accept your battlefied keys. If your interested in playing them that is.
As for the DRM comment, there is no DRM that has not been circumvented. But atleast steam doesn't prevent me from installing a game more than a few number of times.
As for the CPU debate, there is no reason that single core CPU's can't play every game in existence today at acceptable frame rates, providing that they meet the requirements of course.
If he was to say his CPU was a thunderbird then it would probably be a good idea to upgrade, if on the other hand he was to say his CPU is a FX-57 then there is probably no great need for him to upgrade.
I do think that he should save up a bit though, even quad athlon systems can be built for very cheap. Potentially 4 systems can be built using Athlon x2's for the price of that mans i7 980 ;)
I do find it a bit odd that valve wouldn't have allowed people to turn off the fancy steam gui. I also find it odd that it would have that effect on a CPU but I can't really be bothered reading up about it, sorry.
In the case of StarCraft 2, the game itself has no CD-key (there is a battle.net activation key included in the box). Anybody could download the game, but it's your battle.net login that tells the game that you're authorized to play.
Of course, this is why there is also no proper offline support; you can play in guest mode that is single-player only, but only after having logged in at least once to a battle.net account.
I hope one day, Valve will disable a bunch of Steam accounts by mistake. Then lets hear about what you have to say, you brainwashed "Valve is God" people.
My first Steam account was disabled for no reason, and because of Steam lousy support, I have never gotten it back. 100$ dollar lost. Steam does not gain my trust.
I support a Non Steam, or maybe some kind of system where you only need to do authentication of the game once (like Impulse for example).
Or maybe make the user choose which DRM to use, like in Football Manager 2010 where I could choose of play the game with DVD check or use Steam.
Steam will always be a system hog and a bad client in my eyes. Always been since they release that piece of s*** back in the WON days. Remember the anti-steam petition, oldschoolers? Also, it takes away all your rights to the game. You don't literally own the game, its connected to an account that Valve has possession of.
Go flame me to death, but one day, you will see why Steam is bad, and having a company controlling you is bad.
EDIT: Here is something people should read:
The Gamer's Bill of Rights written by the maker of Impulse: <a href="http://www.next-gen.biz/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights" target="_blank">http://www.next-gen.biz/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights</a> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:
Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As this game is using Steamworks (which saves the dev team a TON of time), there is 0 chance of it not being on Steam. Even if it is sold on another service, it will still requrie steam to play. Yes, steam may have some drawbacks but it's the only option right now for the team to use people-resource wise.
<!--quoteo(post=1791159:date=Aug 4 2010, 05:30 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 4 2010, 05:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hard copy formats will always, ALWAYS deteriorate. You can lose a disc, maybe when you're moving house, or maybe through carelessness. It can get damaged.
Digital on the other hand, that's always available - but it's clear the problem with you is that you've got a trust issue, or some sort of paranoia. Do you happen to use any online banking? Maybe you shouldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> just create an iso
<!--quoteo(post=1790999:date=Aug 3 2010, 02:33 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 3 2010, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790999"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly, I've moved past using discs; digital distribution ftw. I don't know whether my DVD drive even works, and I haven't got a BluRay drive yet. As far as I know, SC2 is only on disc, and that's primarily the reason I haven't bothered getting it yet (I'm lazy). I like that if I want to play a game, I can hit up Steam, or the developer's website, download it, install it, and play. It makes <b>sense</b>, too, because you're going to download updates online anyway, not get them on disc. And when you downloaded NS1, you never got it on a disc; why should you feel any different now? Now I don't need to walk down to my nearest retailer, pay the inflated fee for a disc that could get damaged, install it and THEN download any necessary updates anyway. The digital age is wonderful. Retailers and discs are for the plebs. Cut out the middle man.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
The biggest issue with hard copies for me has always been that I don't live in a mansion. They just sit there on the shelf taking up useful space, collecting dust, so on and so forth. It's just pointless and a waste of materials that end up in landfill anyway.
I hope the future of movies follows something like Steam too. It is already starting with video on demand services having been around for some times now via the internet or sattellite/cable companies, but it needs to be alot better than what it is currently (here in the UK anyway), and much fairer priced. DVD's, Blu-rays, discs, tapes, scratched discs, missing discs, the space a collection takes up, so on and so forth - it's all pointless and a real waste.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Anyone hear about the recent invalid VAC ban Steam did for a few tens of thousand accounts?
Or about how they immediately apologized when they figured out what had happened, and gave everyone that they'd banned for all of a day a free copy of L4D2 by way of apology?
Yeah, there's a reason Valve gets my money. And a lot of it. On a regular basis.
<!--quoteo(post=1791395:date=Aug 3 2010, 08:52 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Aug 3 2010, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791395"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone hear about the recent invalid VAC ban Steam did for a few tens of thousand accounts?
Or about how they immediately apologized when they figured out what had happened, and gave everyone that they'd banned for all of a day a free copy of L4D2 by way of apology?
Yeah, there's a reason Valve gets my money. And a lot of it. On a regular basis.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good point Talesin and I agree very much. I kinda wish that I had gotten banned after I read about that... :)
But anyway I will say that Steam was very buggy on it's original release but I think it's an incredible piece of software these days. It puts consoles to shame completely.
Comments
but the problem is not the spark engine
its Steam itself
the new steam UI requires too many resources for one CPU to handle, and thats hwy it randomly diosconnects almost everyone with one
this is currently THE BIGGEST error on the steam forums!
it goes by many names:
"VAC disconnect bug"
"client time out"
"every server disconnect bug"
but they are all caused by the new Steam UI needing too much resources, and a single core cant keep up
i dont have a high paying job
hell, i had to save up for 4 months to buy a cheap little graphics card back in 2008 so i could play l4d
Really, I was looking at upgrading an old server running on an AthlonXP 2500+, and can make it VERY capable for under $200 (<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.435740" target="_blank">Athlon II X4, 2GB RAM, onboard vid/net/sound</a>). Leaving quite a bit to grab a decent video card if the onboard nVidia IGP isn't enough, and a new PSU if the old one is less stable.
Five hundred bucks is <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.435680" target="_blank">overkill</a> if you know what the hell you're doing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you know what?
ill look into this!
thank you for your informative comment!
/flex
Here is my rig (atm its dead my pc, going to get it fix later on, anyway)
Intel P4 @ 3.60GHz
2gig ram
Windows XP Home
ATI Radeon 4850HD 512mb @ 1920x1080
Benq 23" monitor with HDMI (ps3 monitor atm heh full hd)
2x250gig HDD
So far all my games runs fine. But im starting to feel the limit now days. (only wow laggs graphicly wirdly)
you see, i have a single core CPU, and the new steam update doesnt do well with that
SO, it randomly disconnects me
and that sucks
please, make a NON-STEAM version!
for the 20% of steam users who have a single core CPU and cant afford a better one at the moment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree 100% remore steam i want a disk and the game not stream.
So even if Steam was ditched - which would be suicidally stupid, considering every decent PC gamer uses Steam nowadays - it would still be digital download only.
Now I don't need to walk down to my nearest retailer, pay the inflated fee for a disc that could get damaged, install it and THEN download any necessary updates anyway. The digital age is wonderful.
Retailers and discs are for the plebs. Cut out the middle man.
Oh, sweet. I might get it when I next get paid, then. I'm also going to pre-purchase Worms Reloaded for myself and my friends from Steam. (That's right, Steam.)
back to the op and the comments on the whole $40 > 1500 thing
you can buy a dual core machine for about £250 these days.. there cheaper than game consoles in some aspect .. and the whole steam thing im guessing is for steam works .. you know to try and protect the devs hard work? Would you rather they slammed some hardcore anti piracy crap down your throats?
Another benefit to steam is the patches .. it takes an hour or so to get the patch from the devs to us .. thing about it, its much better this way.
If your using old tech and expecting new stuff to work you going to be disappointed. This is PC gaming remember .. your keep your tech upgraded or your not playing the latest stuff .. its basically the same as trying to get a playstation 1 to run playstation 3 games.
I starting my self to hitt the start of "medium" to high settings. (only high setting i care about is textures, in that im graphic junky. rest i care less. along gameplate works. hardcore gamer often (unless im wrong) play with low settings anyway for max preformance and game plate.
now on to steam.
Steam is nice in its ways. it has its darks sides as well.
But i think i read/heard somehere that there mite be a CD/DVD version if things goes well at launch (after alfa, beta).
This was pretty much what I was trying to say. Probably should of made that point better.
Me and my housemate built a HTPC/server downstairs about 3 month ago. Its an Athlon II x245 with 4GB ram, 500GB drive and an AIO Gigabyte with a HD4200. And it cost us just over £200. Amazingly, It can run L4D2 and TF2 at 1366x768 on high and get 40fps. Which for onboard is pretty darn good. Add another £100 for a HD4870 or even less if you eBay a card.
Also the STEAM overlay, I thought it was hardware and that your GPU managed it?
Now I don't need to walk down to my nearest retailer, pay the inflated fee for a disc that could get damaged, install it and THEN download any necessary updates anyway. The digital age is wonderful.
Retailers and discs are for the plebs. Cut out the middle man.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are the people who just sign everything over to digital distribution, trust and never question the system?
Hard copy formats will never, EVER go away. Rightly so, because the minute you start just letting everything you purchase and use be controlled digitally is the minute we should be concerned. I buy games on STEAM all the time, but I still purchase hard copies for big titles.
Digital on the other hand, that's always available - but it's clear the problem with you is that you've got a trust issue, or some sort of paranoia. Do you happen to use any online banking? Maybe you shouldn't.
Digital on the other hand, that's always available - but it's clear the problem with you is that you've got a trust issue, or some sort of paranoia. Do you happen to use any online banking? Maybe you shouldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tell me about it! not to mention EA for instance uses very shoddy disks in the first place. I have issue with all battlefields I bought from the store, upon arrival @ home the game could not install due to disk errors... Same goes for GTA4...
Steam rules!
As for the DRM comment, there is no DRM that has not been circumvented. But atleast steam doesn't prevent me from installing a game more than a few number of times.
As for the CPU debate, there is no reason that single core CPU's can't play every game in existence today at acceptable frame rates, providing that they meet the requirements of course.
If he was to say his CPU was a thunderbird then it would probably be a good idea to upgrade, if on the other hand he was to say his CPU is a FX-57 then there is probably no great need for him to upgrade.
I do think that he should save up a bit though, even quad athlon systems can be built for very cheap. Potentially 4 systems can be built using Athlon x2's for the price of that mans i7 980 ;)
I do find it a bit odd that valve wouldn't have allowed people to turn off the fancy steam gui. I also find it odd that it would have that effect on a CPU but I can't really be bothered reading up about it, sorry.
Of course, this is why there is also no proper offline support; you can play in guest mode that is single-player only, but only after having logged in at least once to a battle.net account.
My first Steam account was disabled for no reason, and because of Steam lousy support, I have never gotten it back. 100$ dollar lost. Steam does not gain my trust.
I support a Non Steam, or maybe some kind of system where you only need to do authentication of the game once (like Impulse for example).
Or maybe make the user choose which DRM to use, like in Football Manager 2010 where I could choose of play the game with DVD check or use Steam.
Steam will always be a system hog and a bad client in my eyes. Always been since they release that piece of s*** back in the WON days. Remember the anti-steam petition, oldschoolers? Also, it takes away all your rights to the game. You don't literally own the game, its connected to an account that Valve has possession of.
Go flame me to death, but one day, you will see why Steam is bad, and having a company controlling you is bad.
EDIT: Here is something people should read:
The Gamer's Bill of Rights written by the maker of Impulse:
<a href="http://www.next-gen.biz/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights" target="_blank">http://www.next-gen.biz/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We the Gamers of the world, in order to ensure a more enjoyable experience, establish equality between players and publishers, and promote the general welfare of our industry hereby call for the following:
Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will adequately play on that computer.
Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their express consent.
Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Digital on the other hand, that's always available - but it's clear the problem with you is that you've got a trust issue, or some sort of paranoia. Do you happen to use any online banking? Maybe you shouldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just create an iso
Now I don't need to walk down to my nearest retailer, pay the inflated fee for a disc that could get damaged, install it and THEN download any necessary updates anyway. The digital age is wonderful.
Retailers and discs are for the plebs. Cut out the middle man.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
The biggest issue with hard copies for me has always been that I don't live in a mansion. They just sit there on the shelf taking up useful space, collecting dust, so on and so forth. It's just pointless and a waste of materials that end up in landfill anyway.
I hope the future of movies follows something like Steam too. It is already starting with video on demand services having been around for some times now via the internet or sattellite/cable companies, but it needs to be alot better than what it is currently (here in the UK anyway), and much fairer priced. DVD's, Blu-rays, discs, tapes, scratched discs, missing discs, the space a collection takes up, so on and so forth - it's all pointless and a real waste.
Or about how they immediately apologized when they figured out what had happened, and gave everyone that they'd banned for all of a day a free copy of L4D2 by way of apology?
Yeah, there's a reason Valve gets my money. And a lot of it. On a regular basis.
Or about how they immediately apologized when they figured out what had happened, and gave everyone that they'd banned for all of a day a free copy of L4D2 by way of apology?
Yeah, there's a reason Valve gets my money. And a lot of it. On a regular basis.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good point Talesin and I agree very much. I kinda wish that I had gotten banned after I read about that... :)
But anyway I will say that Steam was very buggy on it's original release but I think it's an incredible piece of software these days. It puts consoles to shame completely.