ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1784349:date=Jul 26 2010, 07:22 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 26 2010, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1784349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem with "it's obvious" is that I'm never sure if everyone else's "obvious reason" is the same as my snarky, cynical one. So what's the obvious reason again? >_><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because they don't want to alienate a giant subsection of their audience that will still be trying to compete online with a joystick? As JediYoshi pointed out, UT3 is the only one that supports a mouse, and well, it's UT, only srs gamers need apply.
Oh okay, same thing I thought about. It's still sad though. Would they really alienate people that much? Most people have a keyboard and mouse handy on account of their computers. They'd plug those in, see how much better they are, and either continue using them or buy a second set for the console. It seems to me that progress is being held back because of what would be a short period of adjustment.
<!--quoteo(post=1782344:date=Jul 24 2010, 05:03 AM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Jul 24 2010, 05:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782344"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem I have is the people who enjoy the featherweight matches, and INSIST that a featherweight could easily handle a heavyweight. So long as the heavyweight had one eye covered, one arm behind his back, and one leg hobbled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While it is likely true, I would agree that actually doing that would be kinda pointless, and would hardly be fair by any stretch of the imagination.
<!--quoteo(post=1782833:date=Jul 25 2010, 01:36 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 25 2010, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We already have a controller that provides mouse-like control. It's called a mouse. They tend to have USB connectors, so the hardware side of all this is beyond trivial. I have a hard time believing that it would take a lot of R&D to get mouselook implemented in console first person shooters when all the hardware is already there waiting to be used.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you start letting people use mice for console games you have to remove the option to use gamepads, or at least you have to remove all gamepad players from the game, because has has been stated it is hardly fair.
Adding mice to console games basically amounts to cheating in that it gives the user a massive advantage. The point of a gamepad is that it works for any game, you can play driving games, fighting games, and shooting games. Controllers are quite a bit better for driving and fighting games than keyboards, I hardly ever play consoles and I'm still better with a gamepad on those. And gamepads are the console standard, you get one with it so everyone has it. Not everyone has a mouse and keyboard handy, or a good one, or a USB one, or a mousemat they can put on their lap while they play it in front of a TV.
Unless you start shipping consoles with mice and keyboards and some sort of laptop mousemat in addition to gamepads, you can't start making games that allow the use of mice and keyboards willy nilly.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1784655:date=Jul 26 2010, 08:07 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 26 2010, 08:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1784655"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh okay, same thing I thought about. It's still sad though. Would they really alienate people that much? Most people have a keyboard and mouse handy on account of their computers. They'd plug those in, see how much better they are, and either continue using them or buy a second set for the console. It seems to me that progress is being held back because of what would be a short period of adjustment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... most xbox players I know have their system attached to a TV a fair distance away and sit on a couch. A keyboard/mouse setup usually needs something in front of you to rest them on and I have a hard to seeing a bunch of Halo br0z setting up a TV dinner tray for optimal play (it's being used to play beer pong with natty ice, of course).
Being the hardcore gamer (read: massive nerd) that I am I just use my 360 to raise my second monitor up a bit and wouldn't have a problem using a KVM switch or something for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1786204:date=Jul 27 2010, 03:34 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 27 2010, 03:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's sort of like not allowing steering wheels for racing games, or joysticks for flight simulators, isn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to be playing them multiplayer then yes, and you should. Standardised input is sort of required for fair gameplay.
Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1784655:date=Jul 26 2010, 09:07 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 26 2010, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1784655"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh okay, same thing I thought about. It's still sad though. Would they really alienate people that much? Most people have a keyboard and mouse handy on account of their computers. They'd plug those in, see how much better they are, and either continue using them or buy a second set for the console. It seems to me that progress is being held back because of what would be a short period of adjustment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1785719:date=Jul 27 2010, 03:16 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding mice to console games basically amounts to cheating in that it gives the user a massive advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Case and point. Though I think you see that now.
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 10:41 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're going to be playing them multiplayer then yes, and you should. Standardised input is sort of required for fair gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And that is where PC gamers differ from console gamers. Console gamers would cry foul if some one had a 'better' controller. PC gamers aim for better controllers. Be it the best mouse, the most ergonomic key set ups, etc etc (I still want a damn steelseries fang, any one happen to know of a German/EU retailer that sells the Hama cruX and would ship to the states?)
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 10:41 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lolf wasn't talking about those crappy joysticks with 6 buttons tops, he was talking about things more along the lines of: <a href="http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html" target="_blank">http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html</a>
Even if you were using a simple joystick, it's better than using a keyboard. A joystick takes one hand and gives you proper degrees of movement to control a plane, something you can't get from a digital system. When I used to play flight sims (ok, it was actually tie fighter, shush), I played with a simple joystick and my keyboard.
<!--quoteo(post=1786253:date=Jul 27 2010, 05:17 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thansal @ Jul 27 2010, 05:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786253"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And that is where PC gamers differ from console gamers. Console gamers would cry foul if some one had a 'better' controller. PC gamers aim for better controllers. Be it the best mouse, the most ergonomic key set ups, etc etc (I still want a damn steelseries fang, any one happen to know of a German/EU retailer that sells the Hama cruX and would ship to the states?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amazon.de ships to the US at 14€ for every package.
I would be even willing to guide you through the process. Or maybe order it for you.
Shipping can take up to 2 weeks, according to amazon.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1786460:date=Jul 27 2010, 01:23 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Faskalia @ Jul 27 2010, 01:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786460"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Amazon.de ships to the US at 14€ for every package.
I would be even willing to guide you through the process. Or maybe order it for you.
Shipping can take up to 2 weeks, according to amazon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that is all great info. My GF is actually half German, and we were pondering talking to one of her cousins, I will have to check with her to see how her German is doing these days (should be good enough to order from amazon :P). Thanks :D
<!--quoteo(post=1786253:date=Jul 27 2010, 04:17 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thansal @ Jul 27 2010, 04:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786253"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And that is where PC gamers differ from console gamers. Console gamers would cry foul if some one had a 'better' controller. PC gamers aim for better controllers. Be it the best mouse, the most ergonomic key set ups, etc etc (I still want a damn steelseries fang, any one happen to know of a German/EU retailer that sells the Hama cruX and would ship to the states?)
lolf wasn't talking about those crappy joysticks with 6 buttons tops, he was talking about things more along the lines of: <a href="http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html" target="_blank">http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html</a>
Even if you were using a simple joystick, it's better than using a keyboard. A joystick takes one hand and gives you proper degrees of movement to control a plane, something you can't get from a digital system. When I used to play flight sims (ok, it was actually tie fighter, shush), I played with a simple joystick and my keyboard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am a PC gamer, I never play on consoles because I mostly play FPS and RTS games and find them rather hard to play on consoles. I still don't think that it's fair if you give one person in a race a car which goes at 150km/h and the other guy a traction engine. Control advancements are good, but unless everyone can use them they make the game incredibly unfair.
I also own an X52, bought it because everyone told me how wonderful joysticks are, after a week of trying to play X3 with it I went back to a mouse because I kept dying. It's very immersive, but not at all practical given the amount of buttons you need to press in X3. Instead of clicking on an enemy to lock on and then turning quickly with a mouse, I have to wrestle with a joystick and the remember which damn button I bound to lock onto what I'm looking at, and then use the broken-ass nub mouse on the side to navigate menus because my mouse hand is controlling the joystick.
I'd fly better with a gamepad, at least their joysticks are useable with one thumb, leaving the rest of your fingers open to press buttons, and I'd fly better still with a mouse and my other hand pressing the keys. A mouse does everything a simple joystick does, you move it around to aim and click the three or so buttons you have access to, it's just a lot smaller and more responsive than a joystick.
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 28 2010, 12:41 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 28 2010, 12:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 02:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 04:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 03:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 02:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 <!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 03:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 07:41 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 07:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DruBoBack In BeigeJoin Date: 2002-02-06Member: 172Members, NS1 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 08:41 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 08:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://drubo.net/img/facepalm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 04:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Post your own facepalm, you copout.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 04:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got a RSS feed on this a few days ago on how MS killed the shadowrun multiplatform while at work, i made sure to forward it to all my console-fan-boy coworkers with a nice subject of LOL. Rage ensued. :D
Comments
Because they don't want to alienate a giant subsection of their audience that will still be trying to compete online with a joystick? As JediYoshi pointed out, UT3 is the only one that supports a mouse, and well, it's UT, only srs gamers need apply.
I like this image. It speaks to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:D
Love Zero Punctuation on escapistmagazine.com
While it is likely true, I would agree that actually doing that would be kinda pointless, and would hardly be fair by any stretch of the imagination.
<!--quoteo(post=1782833:date=Jul 25 2010, 01:36 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 25 2010, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We already have a controller that provides mouse-like control. It's called a mouse. They tend to have USB connectors, so the hardware side of all this is beyond trivial. I have a hard time believing that it would take a lot of R&D to get mouselook implemented in console first person shooters when all the hardware is already there waiting to be used.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you start letting people use mice for console games you have to remove the option to use gamepads, or at least you have to remove all gamepad players from the game, because has has been stated it is hardly fair.
Adding mice to console games basically amounts to cheating in that it gives the user a massive advantage. The point of a gamepad is that it works for any game, you can play driving games, fighting games, and shooting games. Controllers are quite a bit better for driving and fighting games than keyboards, I hardly ever play consoles and I'm still better with a gamepad on those. And gamepads are the console standard, you get one with it so everyone has it. Not everyone has a mouse and keyboard handy, or a good one, or a USB one, or a mousemat they can put on their lap while they play it in front of a TV.
Unless you start shipping consoles with mice and keyboards and some sort of laptop mousemat in addition to gamepads, you can't start making games that allow the use of mice and keyboards willy nilly.
Well... most xbox players I know have their system attached to a TV a fair distance away and sit on a couch. A keyboard/mouse setup usually needs something in front of you to rest them on and I have a hard to seeing a bunch of Halo br0z setting up a TV dinner tray for optimal play (it's being used to play beer pong with natty ice, of course).
Being the hardcore gamer (read: massive nerd) that I am I just use my 360 to raise my second monitor up a bit and wouldn't have a problem using a KVM switch or something for it.
If you're going to be playing them multiplayer then yes, and you should. Standardised input is sort of required for fair gameplay.
Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1785719:date=Jul 27 2010, 03:16 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1785719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding mice to console games basically amounts to cheating in that it gives the user a massive advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Case and point. Though I think you see that now.
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 10:41 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're going to be playing them multiplayer then yes, and you should. Standardised input is sort of required for fair gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that is where PC gamers differ from console gamers. Console gamers would cry foul if some one had a 'better' controller. PC gamers aim for better controllers. Be it the best mouse, the most ergonomic key set ups, etc etc (I still want a damn steelseries fang, any one happen to know of a German/EU retailer that sells the Hama cruX and would ship to the states?)
<!--quoteo(post=1786210:date=Jul 27 2010, 10:41 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 27 2010, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although why you'd want to use a joystick for flying games I don't know, flight sims have masses of controls so you'd need to go back to the keyboard all the time anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lolf wasn't talking about those crappy joysticks with 6 buttons tops, he was talking about things more along the lines of: <a href="http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html" target="_blank">http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html</a>
Even if you were using a simple joystick, it's better than using a keyboard. A joystick takes one hand and gives you proper degrees of movement to control a plane, something you can't get from a digital system. When I used to play flight sims (ok, it was actually tie fighter, shush), I played with a simple joystick and my keyboard.
Amazon.de ships to the US at 14€ for every package.
I would be even willing to guide you through the process. Or maybe order it for you.
Shipping can take up to 2 weeks, according to amazon.
I would be even willing to guide you through the process. Or maybe order it for you.
Shipping can take up to 2 weeks, according to amazon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that is all great info. My GF is actually half German, and we were pondering talking to one of her cousins, I will have to check with her to see how her German is doing these days (should be good enough to order from amazon :P). Thanks :D
lolf wasn't talking about those crappy joysticks with 6 buttons tops, he was talking about things more along the lines of: <a href="http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html" target="_blank">http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html</a>
Even if you were using a simple joystick, it's better than using a keyboard. A joystick takes one hand and gives you proper degrees of movement to control a plane, something you can't get from a digital system. When I used to play flight sims (ok, it was actually tie fighter, shush), I played with a simple joystick and my keyboard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am a PC gamer, I never play on consoles because I mostly play FPS and RTS games and find them rather hard to play on consoles. I still don't think that it's fair if you give one person in a race a car which goes at 150km/h and the other guy a traction engine. Control advancements are good, but unless everyone can use them they make the game incredibly unfair.
I also own an X52, bought it because everyone told me how wonderful joysticks are, after a week of trying to play X3 with it I went back to a mouse because I kept dying. It's very immersive, but not at all practical given the amount of buttons you need to press in X3. Instead of clicking on an enemy to lock on and then turning quickly with a mouse, I have to wrestle with a joystick and the remember which damn button I bound to lock onto what I'm looking at, and then use the broken-ass nub mouse on the side to navigate menus because my mouse hand is controlling the joystick.
I'd fly better with a gamepad, at least their joysticks are useable with one thumb, leaving the rest of your fingers open to press buttons, and I'd fly better still with a mouse and my other hand pressing the keys. A mouse does everything a simple joystick does, you move it around to aim and click the three or so buttons you have access to, it's just a lot smaller and more responsive than a joystick.
<img src="http://www.tjhowse.com/misc/me_facepalm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
--Scythe--
<img src="http://a.imageshack.us/img843/7866/facepalmr.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3615/facepalmbe.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/X_Stickman/Stuff/sigh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://imgur.com/OnMDw.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://thebritishdisease.com/img/facepalm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/spellman23/facepalm_s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://drubo.net/img/facepalm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->Post your own facepalm, you copout.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I really should get a tan.
<img src="http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8963/img3137i.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />