<!--quoteo(post=1780549:date=Jul 18 2010, 05:50 PM:name=Pyromaniac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromaniac @ Jul 18 2010, 05:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Competitive play doesn't have to come at the cost of public play. Look at CS and SC. People seem to think it does because they get owned by competive players in pubs now that NS is dying, but that won't happen in a new game that is populated, there will be much more pub players and the communitys will be seperated for a more fun experience on both sides. Both sides of the community feed off of each other and as long as they stay populated there won't be an issue, like in the games I mentioned earlier. People can't hack with scripts either, and if scripts are removed people will result to external macros anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're forgetting that the very nature of competition means that competitive players will do everything in their power to exploit the game, thereby ruining the game for the naturally more honest pubbers. Let's also not forget that the nature of competition means that competitive teams will pressure the developers to expand balance and gameplay in a direction that suits their play style (just as HAM and sYn attempted to do during the NS 2.0 beta. Thankfully, their terrible ideas were overcome by waves of criticism from pubbers). The simple fact of the matter is that pubbers and clanners are not two sides of the same coin, rather they represent the thesis and antithesis of a Hegelian contradiction. This dialectic can only be brought to a point of synthesis (thereby avoiding the pitfalls of NS 1's development) if UWE completely obliterates any possibility for the destructive power of competitive play to come into being.
People keep forgetting who pays for the servers that host the game. It ain't the pubbers in most cases, and I'm not a competitive player, I'm a normal pubber.
Since this game, according to the interview, will be so moddable as to really not limit everything, I think it's safe to say that everyone will get what they want, be them pubber or competitives. And if we keep badmouthing one another then this community will fracture.
Haha, oh yes, clanners pay for pub servers, that's rich. "Oh, let me just pay much more for a public server that I am never going to use publicly because hpsadfasihn;asdf"
<!--quoteo(post=1780563:date=Jul 18 2010, 06:34 PM:name=PneumaticCrab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PneumaticCrab @ Jul 18 2010, 06:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780563"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Haha, oh yes, clanners pay for pub servers, that's rich. "Oh, let me just pay much more for a public server that I am never going to use publicly...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess you haven't stepped out of your clan server in awhile? Clans do this all the time, especially popular in CS and Unreal Tournament.
This cry of "oh, but look at what contributions we make" is the "abracadabra" of the clanners; it is the prestidigitation by which the clanners alchemize the destruction they sows into a supposed contribution, and it is by this thaumaturgy that both clanners and pubbers alike are tricked into believing that their very natures are not diametrically opposed.
There is no reconciliation here, my friends. If the clanners are allowed to sow their destructive seed, then NS2 will be dead before it even has the chance to take off. I can't speak for any of you, but I played a lot of NS1, and the idea of NS2 collapsing like that is too heart breaking to even imagine.
<!--quoteo(post=1780558:date=Jul 18 2010, 08:16 PM:name=PneumaticCrab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PneumaticCrab @ Jul 18 2010, 08:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you're forgetting that the very nature of competition means that competitive players will do everything in their power to exploit the game, thereby ruining the game for the naturally more honest pubbers. Let's also not forget that the nature of competition means that competitive teams will pressure the developers to expand balance and gameplay in a direction that suits their play style (just as HAM and sYn attempted to do during the NS 2.0 beta. Thankfully, their terrible ideas were overcome by waves of criticism from pubbers). The simple fact of the matter is that pubbers and clanners are not two sides of the same coin, rather they represent the thesis and antithesis of a Hegelian contradiction. This dialectic can only be brought to a point of synthesis (thereby avoiding the pitfalls of NS 1's development) if UWE completely obliterates any possibility for the destructive power of competitive play to come into being.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> competitive players will do everything in their power to be the master the game within the allowable boundaries. Once exploits start popping up the game game you can argue about its benefits and detriments on a per exploit basis, but saying competitive play should be completely obliterated is retarded. A game with depth always creates a community that really enjoys this aspect and wants to further it, so if you don't want that at all you're playing the wrong game. A large range of playing ability is always going to exist in games with depth, but they CAN be symbiotic if done right, CS and SC are perfect evidence and there's really no argument against that. You're complaining about people that are selfish and want the game tailored to their playstyle, but that's really all you're doing. At least those players just want the game to have depth at risk of increasing the learning curve, you want it to to be boring trash that can be mastered in a couple of months. If done right, the steepness of learning curve can be kept from being too high, and even if it were high, learning the game is fun as long as the game's population is kept high.
<!--quoteo(post=1780573:date=Jul 18 2010, 09:05 PM:name=PneumaticCrab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PneumaticCrab @ Jul 18 2010, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This cry of "oh, but look at what contributions we make" is the "abracadabra" of the clanners; it is the prestidigitation by which the clanners alchemize the destruction they sows into a supposed contribution, and it is by this thaumaturgy that both clanners and pubbers alike are tricked into believing that their very natures are not diametrically opposed.
There is no reconciliation here, my friends. If the clanners are allowed to sow their destructive seed, then NS2 will be dead before it even has the chance to take off. I can't speak for any of you, but I played a lot of NS1, and the idea of NS2 collapsing like that is too heart breaking to even imagine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1780573:date=Jul 18 2010, 07:05 PM:name=PneumaticCrab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PneumaticCrab @ Jul 18 2010, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This cry of "oh, but look at what contributions we make" is the "abracadabra" of the clanners; it is the prestidigitation by which the clanners alchemize the destruction they sows into a supposed contribution, and it is by this thaumaturgy that both clanners and pubbers alike are tricked into believing that their very natures are not diametrically opposed.
There is no reconciliation here, my friends. If the clanners are allowed to sow their destructive seed, then NS2 will be dead before it even has the chance to take off. I can't speak for any of you, but I played a lot of NS1, and the idea of NS2 collapsing like that is too heart breaking to even imagine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> He's trolling. This guy tried hard in competitive play with pandas and took "e-sports" seriously enough to go to CPL.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2010
Hahaha. Best troll I've seen in a while. Kudos, Crab.
<!--quoteo(post=1780507:date=Jul 18 2010, 10:33 PM:name=Seker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seker @ Jul 18 2010, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780507"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is alpha .... theres not that much to play with.... so how bout you let them finish the game until we get the "unecassary" extras ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about you actually READ the OP before replying? Here, I'll help you out:
<!--quoteo(post=1780078:date=Jul 17 2010, 02:40 PM:name=neilm86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (neilm86 @ Jul 17 2010, 02:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm fully aware that NS2 is still very much in its development stage and these issues and features are way down the development process<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1780573:date=Jul 18 2010, 08:05 PM:name=PneumaticCrab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PneumaticCrab @ Jul 18 2010, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This cry of "oh, but look at what contributions we make" is the "abracadabra" of the clanners; it is the prestidigitation by which the clanners alchemize the destruction they sows into a supposed contribution, and it is by this thaumaturgy that both clanners and pubbers alike are tricked into believing that their very natures are not diametrically opposed.
There is no reconciliation here, my friends. If the clanners are allowed to sow their destructive seed, then NS2 will be dead before it even has the chance to take off. I can't speak for any of you, but I played a lot of NS1, and the idea of NS2 collapsing like that is too heart breaking to even imagine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1780532:date=Jul 18 2010, 10:56 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 18 2010, 10:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The first videos we saw, like the dynamic infestation or the dynamic loading of the TF2 map while textures were edited in real time, were done in the Spark engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The output was legacy BSP for the '07 video of DI working in a BSP environment, yes.
The post states clearly the input for the editor was .BSP and I'll highlight "allowed .BSP files to run in the editor in the beginning", which is why I ask.
I'd assume Spark still has support hidden somewhere for the output of .BSP but I don't believe the editor input will run on .BSP; however if it did, I'd find that very interesting to learn about.
EDIT: Dynamic loading of TF2 map? I haven't seen this, links please TC! <3
I can see you're worried, however your worry is nothing but sadness sewn in vain. You're commenting and arguing on something that is not released, not final and something you have yet to experience.
Among the development team you have casual gamers and competitive gamers, playtesting has been carried out with more competitive gamers and a group with a 'broader range'. A secondary phase of the alpha with an even broader range of gamers is next to come, which will help the development team towards their goal.
Citing NS1 as reasoning for your beliefs against competitive gaming or your belief of gameplay for a game you have yet to experience is not valid reasoning. It's pretty illogical to use this as such.
I can see you're worried, however your worry is nothing but sadness sewn in vain. You're commenting and arguing on something that is not released, not final and something you have yet to experience.
Among the development team you have casual gamers and competitive gamers, playtesting has been carried out with more competitive gamers and a group with a 'broader range'. A secondary phase of the alpha with an even broader range of gamers is next to come, which will help the development team towards their goal.
Citing NS1 as reasoning for your beliefs against competitive gaming or your belief of gameplay for a game you have yet to experience is not valid reasoning. It's pretty illogical to use this as such.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You realize I'm not the one who wrote that, right?
<!--quoteo(post=1780594:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:21 AM:name=Pyromaniac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromaniac @ Jul 19 2010, 02:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780594"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol oh god i didn't even see that literary trash or else i wouldn't have bothered responding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Read these forums too much and you're falling for anything. It just happens, especially while tired.
Thank you fanatic and tjosan, for both saving me a post
PneumaticCrab I don’t think you should be tarring all competitive players with the same brush.
I for one, enjoy competitive/clan play as it adds a new edge to the game. It is a lot more rewarding playing with a known group of players against a well organised and skilled opponent. Games can become a little stale for me if it is purely public play.
I do agree that any form of scripting to get even the slightest advantage should be completely outlawed from the start.
And, as for changing the game to suit 'clanners' and detriment the game for 'pubbers', if you look at what I was originally asking for to be included, you may struggle to justify this claim.
Can we stop the Thesaurus wars as well, since I began observing this community I noticed how well it seems to get along. This is something we must also ensure lasts throughout NS2!
<!--quoteo(post=1780643:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:38 PM:name=neilm86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (neilm86 @ Jul 19 2010, 02:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780643"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don’t think you should be tarring all competitive players with the same brush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT.
Just because you've met a few clan goers, who are huge knobs, doesn't automatically make all of them knobs.
We've all crossed paths with NSplayers who think their faecal matter smells better than everyone else's, because they are "pro". But tell me of ANY game that doesn't have that minority, and I will give you a £100.
And everyone who played NS contributed, just by playing.
Tolerance goes a long way.
EDIT: I'm not actually 100% sure if what I said was completely relevant with what has been said so far. BUT its still true, haha :B
The experience I have made was that a competetive community does help a lot in keeping a game alife.
A list of things that usually apply:
1.) Having several leagues set up guarantees a constant amount of new players. 2.) The more clans there are, the more servers are available. 3.) The Competetive community usually goes hand in hand with the Mod Community. 4.) Clans are usually the first to spot balancing problems, the better balanced a game is, the more fun it is and the more players there are.
Comp play is better to balance around tbh as there is more consistency in the player base. If you balance around a general casual pubber then the balance becomes out of whack.
Take skulk movement as an example. You make the skulk movement such that the average pubber can get to a marine and have a fair chance of winning. Now when this balance in the hands of someone that plays 60hrs a week against other extremely good players it become way out of balance, especially when he comes up against a general casual pub player. It is much better to have this movement skill balanced around these comp players, and then provide an alternative to the casual pub player (cloaking etc).
And with the notion of ignoring comp play all together. That is kind of crazy, its comp play that will keep a game going strong over a period of time after the general masses get their fix and then move onto the next new exciting game
Right now the competetive NS is spread out quite badly. You have various voice comms (all requiring a bit of configuration), things are run partitially through IRC and partitially through ENSL site. The game itself does very little except provides the right settings for the match. All this adds up to the barrier of playing organised NS.
ENSL has slowly moved from IRC more to the site and steam community system, but I think we are still quite far from any install and play kind of experience.
Do you think an ingame voice comm could actually be used for organised play?
Could the gathers/PUGs/Scrims/PCWs or even tournaments be run through some Steam or NS2 interface, which is avaible for everyone right after the NS2 install?
How did a thread on server commands/options turn into a Comp vs Pub???
Bacillus's idea is nice. Utilize Steam Community and community websites to help facilitate events would be awesome. Heck, we could form a Steam Community group right now for NS2!!
This is just straight off the top of my head, but wouldn't a "competitive" mod of sorts be the right path here? No gameplay changes, still vanilla NS2, but with practical features that would help a competitive community. IE, saying "Ready" to start the match.
Not only would that help out all these leagues and what not, but since it is a mod, you could technically find a competitive mod server and get a serious game going at any time with a PUG. As someone who loved Captain's Night, that sounds like it could be really damn fun.
TF2 has a server command called Tournament Mode, which changes nothing about the game but sets the map to dead time for you to get your teams prepped before readying up and starting the match. You can still run around and frag each other to warm up, but the game isn't really started, none of the map objectives are active, and everything gets reset when the round proper begins.
ns1 has that too, except with no pre-round killing. While this is necessary for competitive play and fairly simple for a developer or modder to add in, the developers should make things that might not be possible for modders to make to aid competitive support, like an hltv-style spectator system. Such a system is pretty essential to allow a competitive community to gain interest and grow early in the game and it would benefit the growth of the game to get that in for release, rather than in a later patch like their current plans are.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1780769:date=Jul 19 2010, 06:39 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jul 19 2010, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780769"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now the competetive NS is spread out quite badly. You have various voice comms (all requiring a bit of configuration), things are run partitially through IRC and partitially through ENSL site. The game itself does very little except provides the right settings for the match. All this adds up to the barrier of playing organised NS.
ENSL has slowly moved from IRC more to the site and steam community system, but I think we are still quite far from any install and play kind of experience.
Do you think an ingame voice comm could actually be used for organised play?
Could the gathers/PUGs/Scrims/PCWs or even tournaments be run through some Steam or NS2 interface, which is avaible for everyone right after the NS2 install?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seems like a waste of time to me. IRC worked perfectly in the past. I'm actually a bit annoyed with the whole steam thing. It's terrible for anything other than one-to-one conversations. I'd much rather use IRC than have to open the game or use steam to get to some sort of chat system.
<!--quoteo(post=1780778:date=Jul 19 2010, 08:20 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jul 19 2010, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780778"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How did a thread on server commands/options turn into a Comp vs Pub???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1780862:date=Jul 19 2010, 07:18 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jul 19 2010, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seems like a waste of time to me. IRC worked perfectly in the past. I'm actually a bit annoyed with the whole steam thing. It's terrible for anything other than one-to-one conversations. I'd much rather use IRC than have to open the game or use steam to get to some sort of chat system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Much like with any other game only available through Steam and that using Steamworks it's likely that Steam being open is a requirement to playing NS2.
Barriers to competitive play should be reduced and downplaying IRC's importance should definitely be looked at by competitive leagues and organizers. I'm a huge fan of pugs (organized matches on private servers where people meet in a room and are either auto assigned to a team or team captains pick) as they lead to a sense of community and are a great way to ease into the competitive side of gaming. I almost pugged exclusively in Call of Duty 2 as playing with people on vent who had mics in a somewhat competitive atmosphere made the game so much better than just running around a pub fragging people.
If a league was able to take advantage of Steam to promote pugs I think NS2's competitive scene would be vibrant, easy to transition into, and allow for more organized/community based games between clanless players.
Comments
I think you're forgetting that the very nature of competition means that competitive players will do everything in their power to exploit the game, thereby ruining the game for the naturally more honest pubbers. Let's also not forget that the nature of competition means that competitive teams will pressure the developers to expand balance and gameplay in a direction that suits their play style (just as HAM and sYn attempted to do during the NS 2.0 beta. Thankfully, their terrible ideas were overcome by waves of criticism from pubbers). The simple fact of the matter is that pubbers and clanners are not two sides of the same coin, rather they represent the thesis and antithesis of a Hegelian contradiction. This dialectic can only be brought to a point of synthesis (thereby avoiding the pitfalls of NS 1's development) if UWE completely obliterates any possibility for the destructive power of competitive play to come into being.
Since this game, according to the interview, will be so moddable as to really not limit everything, I think it's safe to say that everyone will get what they want, be them pubber or competitives. And if we keep badmouthing one another then this community will fracture.
Leave the arguments behind and enjoy gaming.
I guess you haven't stepped out of your clan server in awhile?
Clans do this all the time, especially popular in CS and Unreal Tournament.
There is no reconciliation here, my friends. If the clanners are allowed to sow their destructive seed, then NS2 will be dead before it even has the chance to take off. I can't speak for any of you, but I played a lot of NS1, and the idea of NS2 collapsing like that is too heart breaking to even imagine.
competitive players will do everything in their power to be the master the game within the allowable boundaries. Once exploits start popping up the game game you can argue about its benefits and detriments on a per exploit basis, but saying competitive play should be completely obliterated is retarded. A game with depth always creates a community that really enjoys this aspect and wants to further it, so if you don't want that at all you're playing the wrong game. A large range of playing ability is always going to exist in games with depth, but they CAN be symbiotic if done right, CS and SC are perfect evidence and there's really no argument against that. You're complaining about people that are selfish and want the game tailored to their playstyle, but that's really all you're doing. At least those players just want the game to have depth at risk of increasing the learning curve, you want it to to be boring trash that can be mastered in a couple of months. If done right, the steepness of learning curve can be kept from being too high, and even if it were high, learning the game is fun as long as the game's population is kept high.
There is no reconciliation here, my friends. If the clanners are allowed to sow their destructive seed, then NS2 will be dead before it even has the chance to take off. I can't speak for any of you, but I played a lot of NS1, and the idea of NS2 collapsing like that is too heart breaking to even imagine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You sound like a wizard from Lord of the Rings.
There is no reconciliation here, my friends. If the clanners are allowed to sow their destructive seed, then NS2 will be dead before it even has the chance to take off. I can't speak for any of you, but I played a lot of NS1, and the idea of NS2 collapsing like that is too heart breaking to even imagine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's trolling. This guy tried hard in competitive play with pandas and took "e-sports" seriously enough to go to CPL.
<!--quoteo(post=1780507:date=Jul 18 2010, 10:33 PM:name=Seker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seker @ Jul 18 2010, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780507"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is alpha .... theres not that much to play with.... so how bout you let them finish the game until we get the "unecassary" extras ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about you actually READ the OP before replying? Here, I'll help you out:
<!--quoteo(post=1780078:date=Jul 17 2010, 02:40 PM:name=neilm86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (neilm86 @ Jul 17 2010, 02:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm fully aware that NS2 is still very much in its development stage and these issues and features are way down the development process<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no reconciliation here, my friends. If the clanners are allowed to sow their destructive seed, then NS2 will be dead before it even has the chance to take off. I can't speak for any of you, but I played a lot of NS1, and the idea of NS2 collapsing like that is too heart breaking to even imagine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are a truly fantastic troll. Continue.
The output was legacy BSP for the '07 video of DI working in a BSP environment, yes.
The post states clearly the input for the editor was .BSP and I'll highlight "allowed .BSP files to run in the editor in the beginning", which is why I ask.
I'd assume Spark still has support hidden somewhere for the output of .BSP but I don't believe the editor input will run on .BSP; however if it did, I'd find that very interesting to learn about.
EDIT: Dynamic loading of TF2 map? I haven't seen this, links please TC! <3
I can see you're worried, however your worry is nothing but sadness sewn in vain. You're commenting and arguing on something that is not released, not final and something you have yet to experience.
Among the development team you have casual gamers and competitive gamers, playtesting has been carried out with more competitive gamers and a group with a 'broader range'. A secondary phase of the alpha with an even broader range of gamers is next to come, which will help the development team towards their goal.
Citing NS1 as reasoning for your beliefs against competitive gaming or your belief of gameplay for a game you have yet to experience is not valid reasoning. It's pretty illogical to use this as such.
*Edit; Apologies to cmc5788.
I can see you're worried, however your worry is nothing but sadness sewn in vain. You're commenting and arguing on something that is not released, not final and something you have yet to experience.
Among the development team you have casual gamers and competitive gamers, playtesting has been carried out with more competitive gamers and a group with a 'broader range'. A secondary phase of the alpha with an even broader range of gamers is next to come, which will help the development team towards their goal.
Citing NS1 as reasoning for your beliefs against competitive gaming or your belief of gameplay for a game you have yet to experience is not valid reasoning. It's pretty illogical to use this as such.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You realize I'm not the one who wrote that, right?
EDIT: who hangs out with Temphage.
Read these forums too much and you're falling for anything. It just happens, especially while tired.
PneumaticCrab I don’t think you should be tarring all competitive players with the same brush.
I for one, enjoy competitive/clan play as it adds a new edge to the game. It is a lot more rewarding playing with a known group of players against a well organised and skilled opponent. Games can become a little stale for me if it is purely public play.
I do agree that any form of scripting to get even the slightest advantage should be completely outlawed from the start.
And, as for changing the game to suit 'clanners' and detriment the game for 'pubbers', if you look at what I was originally asking for to be included, you may struggle to justify this claim.
Can we stop the Thesaurus wars as well, since I began observing this community I noticed how well it seems to get along. This is something we must also ensure lasts throughout NS2!
QFT.
Just because you've met a few clan goers, who are huge knobs, doesn't automatically make all of them knobs.
We've all crossed paths with NSplayers who think their faecal matter smells better than everyone else's, because they are "pro". But tell me of ANY game that doesn't have that minority, and I will give you a £100.
And everyone who played NS contributed, just by playing.
Tolerance goes a long way.
EDIT: I'm not actually 100% sure if what I said was completely relevant with what has been said so far. BUT its still true, haha :B
A list of things that usually apply:
1.) Having several leagues set up guarantees a constant amount of new players.
2.) The more clans there are, the more servers are available.
3.) The Competetive community usually goes hand in hand with the Mod Community.
4.) Clans are usually the first to spot balancing problems, the better balanced a game is, the more fun it is and the more players there are.
Take skulk movement as an example. You make the skulk movement such that the average pubber can get to a marine and have a fair chance of winning. Now when this balance in the hands of someone that plays 60hrs a week against other extremely good players it become way out of balance, especially when he comes up against a general casual pub player. It is much better to have this movement skill balanced around these comp players, and then provide an alternative to the casual pub player (cloaking etc).
And with the notion of ignoring comp play all together. That is kind of crazy, its comp play that will keep a game going strong over a period of time after the general masses get their fix and then move onto the next new exciting game
ENSL has slowly moved from IRC more to the site and steam community system, but I think we are still quite far from any install and play kind of experience.
Do you think an ingame voice comm could actually be used for organised play?
Could the gathers/PUGs/Scrims/PCWs or even tournaments be run through some Steam or NS2 interface, which is avaible for everyone right after the NS2 install?
Bacillus's idea is nice. Utilize Steam Community and community websites to help facilitate events would be awesome. Heck, we could form a Steam Community group right now for NS2!!
Not only would that help out all these leagues and what not, but since it is a mod, you could technically find a competitive mod server and get a serious game going at any time with a PUG. As someone who loved Captain's Night, that sounds like it could be really damn fun.
ENSL has slowly moved from IRC more to the site and steam community system, but I think we are still quite far from any install and play kind of experience.
Do you think an ingame voice comm could actually be used for organised play?
Could the gathers/PUGs/Scrims/PCWs or even tournaments be run through some Steam or NS2 interface, which is avaible for everyone right after the NS2 install?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems like a waste of time to me. IRC worked perfectly in the past. I'm actually a bit annoyed with the whole steam thing. It's terrible for anything other than one-to-one conversations. I'd much rather use IRC than have to open the game or use steam to get to some sort of chat system.
Isn't that allways the case?
Much like with any other game only available through Steam and that using Steamworks it's likely that Steam being open is a requirement to playing NS2.
Barriers to competitive play should be reduced and downplaying IRC's importance should definitely be looked at by competitive leagues and organizers. I'm a huge fan of pugs (organized matches on private servers where people meet in a room and are either auto assigned to a team or team captains pick) as they lead to a sense of community and are a great way to ease into the competitive side of gaming. I almost pugged exclusively in Call of Duty 2 as playing with people on vent who had mics in a somewhat competitive atmosphere made the game so much better than just running around a pub fragging people.
If a league was able to take advantage of Steam to promote pugs I think NS2's competitive scene would be vibrant, easy to transition into, and allow for more organized/community based games between clanless players.