The commander is the only one who has to worry about map control, everyone else just spawns, teleports, or runs to the frontline, just like in any other game, and kills enemies until the frontline moves, again like any other game. continue to do that and you win.
Structures and ammo supplies and hives are merely facilitators of that mechanic, you can do it just as well with battlefield flags or TF2 control points.
Because from my point of view, when i'm moving on the map it's not only about "killing"
I can do
_Cover and protect RT _destroy Alien RT where alien aren't _go to hive in secret to make some Secret Rush PG _Go to a spot where no-one is to make a secondary base _Scouting _Make some diversion
THIS is something you don't have to worry in a FULL FPS game. It's the RTS aspect of game.
And we can do that only if the map is BIG enough.
But maybe you weren't aware of that and maybe you're just a basic "giv'me my f--king shotgun noob commander" soldier.
I can do all of those as well, but the point is that none of those are interesting.
Staring at structures until they are built repeatedly is not entertaining gameplay, guarding an RT in the arse end of nowhere is not entertaining gameplay, ending a game in thirty seconds by building a phase gate in the hive room is not entertaining gameplay. These are all things you assign mindless AI units to do in RTS games, and there is a very good reason for that, it's because doing it yourself is not entertaining.
We have turrets to guard things, res towers to collect resources, and now weld bots to do repair work. These are all intelligent additions designed to prevent players from having to do incredibly boring RTS unit tasks and allow them to focus on the FPS tasks of shooting up their enemies. You should not have emphasis on boring RTS busy work for the same reason you should not have a harvester class, a turret class, or unit that can do nothing but build and fix base structures class.
Yeah, but the RTS philosophy have always been to simplify the work. The rts of nowadays have nothing to do with age of empire 1 for example.
Now, you just have to push one button and it make everything for you. Stupid thing like clicking to build a villagers every 18seconde on age of empire 1 were priceless. it's micromanagement.
Removing the busy work allows for the introduction of new, more intuitive forms of interest.
Having to babysit my collectors does not entertain me, however thinking about how to move my squads into cover well in company of heroes does.
Similarly, having to perform banal tasks in a badly put together fpsrts does not entertain me, however the way in which the pleasing fluidity of the structure based control point system affects the normal FPS gameplay does.
The only reason I liked old games is because I didn't know any better, we hadn't invented things like AI or automation or control groups or having more than eight units selected at once. Now that we have, I have no desire to return to the dark ages. Same goes for any improvement in automation, in any field.
<!--quoteo(post=1775937:date=Jun 23 2010, 05:10 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jun 23 2010, 05:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't think I ever really memorised the layout of half the maps.
Dead space in maps is never a good thing, you should always have the map space in use, otherwise there is no point having it. If you have space that isn't being used, either make changes to encourage its use, especially if other parts are too congested, or remove it.
NS1 usually had very limited confrontation, the entire game was a constant skirmish with no real heavy fighting until one side was about to win, either the marines started sieging hives or the aliens started onosing marine bases, either way it's a curb stomp battle at that point.
Much better to have an FPS game where you get lots of good action going for the duration of the game rather than lots of running around chasing ref nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You never memorizing half the maps layout has less to do with the game and more with yourself.
Most ns_maps have very little dead space which obviously depends on playernumbers and how the rounds will end up. Of course if marines shotgun rape the hive in the first 5 minutes 2/3rd of the map will be "dead space" but in real rounds where serveral hives get dropped and killed and the marine base gets torn down just for them to reloc it's a constant struggle between both teams that involves all parts of the map over the course of the round.
I can't think of many place where i didn't experience some heavy fighting over the course of playing NS for years. It kinda suprises me.. heck even the most stupid vent far outside the map has some very intense memories for me may it be a stupid last resort reloc or jetpack vs fade fights.
Judging from what you are describing you haven't had the same experience maybe because the lack of playtime or maybe because you only played very stacked rounds.
<!--quoteo(post=1775963:date=Jun 23 2010, 09:35 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jun 23 2010, 09:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can do all of those as well, but the point is that none of those are interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And because they are not interesting to you they need to be removed? Those things are exactly what makes NS stand out compared to other MP FPS. The option to be really stealthy. I can't count the number of games i've seen totaly turn around because of a smart ninja getting a PG up or the comm totaly outplaying the alien team. Confrontation isn't the only way to win NS and it shouldn't be the only way. Heck for the most part i enjoy ninjaing around the map way more than ending up in spamfast between lerk spores and oni stomps with HA's and JP's inbetween, of course these are awesome too but i like the ninja gameplay more.
NS is one of these rare MP games where you actually can outthink your enemy instead of just outgunning him, evading skulks on purpose so the alien team won't be aware of your presence. Waiting with RT/chamber takedowns till the rest of the team is busy distracting the alien team on the other side of the map so you can escape after killing it, timing your ninja PG build between alien respawns so you won't be discovered. It's all these things that make the gameplay unique, the choise of your approach and it actually working if you chose an approach that isn't "SHOTGUN IN FACE"....
If you want a non-stop in your face action game than maybe you should be playing quake? Because NS is much but it isn't a pure twitch action shooter, there is a huge metagame involved in every round of NS and that metagame often wins the round.
I'm with rebirth on this. Seen plenty of games with really skilled players lost because they didn't have any strategy besides run in and shoot. I have also seen 'run in shooting' win games but it is almost always backed up by a comm who is executing a rush strategy because that was the plan. This aside, if you are looking to keep a discussion of NS's FPS vs RTS features it should be in its own thread and not this one. This is for ns_tram map feedback not the direction of game play (which there is already a thread for).
<!--quoteo(post=1775981:date=Jun 24 2010, 02:31 AM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Jun 24 2010, 02:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775981"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm with rebirth on this. Seen plenty of games with really skilled players lost because they didn't have any strategy besides run in and shoot. I have also seen 'run in shooting' win games but it is almost always backed up by a comm who is executing a rush strategy because that was the plan. This aside, if you are looking to keep a discussion of NS's FPS vs RTS features it should be in its own thread and not this one. This is for ns_tram map feedback not the direction of game play (which there is already a thread for).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well i think it kinda keys into the ns2_tram discussion, because after all map design impacts the gameplay and possible strategies. The original argument had been "the map is too linear" and a too linear map limits strategies. But of course that discussion is a little bit pointless considering that there will probably more maps and hopefully bigger and more complex ones.
The limitation on CC's only beeing buildable at tech points still worries me anyway..
<!--quoteo(post=1776008:date=Jun 24 2010, 01:37 PM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Jun 24 2010, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The limitation on CC's only beeing buildable at tech points still worries me anyway..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yess Not possible to reloc in corridor or Block doors with buildings !!
Question : Will it be possible for alien to build OC or chambers everywhere they want ?
Blocking a door/corridor with building was a (lama/interesting) kind of map control, keeping the ennemy from reaching a part of the map.
<!--quoteo(post=1776040:date=Jun 24 2010, 03:20 PM:name=invader Zim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (invader Zim @ Jun 24 2010, 03:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i agree that it looks of awsomeness, but also that the lighting isnt so epic
the concept art feels more epic, and im guessing this is because of: firstly the perspective - this cant be helped, and secondly the lighting.
Needs more sinister looming shadows or rays of light flittering through vents or something. More contrast creates atmosphere, makes world come alive.
of course the down side to big shadows is the skulks that are inevitably in them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go into the model viewer. Open the skulk model. Drag him into the shadows. You will notice their eyes glow in the dark. This is assumed for all the alien classes, meaning marines will have the ability to somewhat see alien player positions. The MASC also has headlights on it( I asked Cory about it in the past) along with the welder bots :D
Also keep in mind about the Marine Power Grid. If a room doesn't have a resource tower built in it, or a connecting room without a resource tower in it (besides the techpoint room with a command station in it), the power will be off, meaning: Darkness everywhere! Lighting is definately going to play a huge role in this game, and I cannot wait to have those intense battles in the dark, watching my back to make sure no skulks are about to ambush me!
Too much judging going on for this game, people still need to realise the gameplay is not the exact same as NS1 gameplay. Abilities, movement, strucutres, weapons, AI units, commanding, are all going to act so much differently. Of course I'm worried about some of the gameplay features myself, but I'm still optimistic. I do think NS2 will be unique from NS1, and provide a new level of skill, and enchantment in the FPS or RTS game industry.
<!--quoteo(post=1776011:date=Jun 24 2010, 03:06 PM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jun 24 2010, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yess Not possible to reloc in corridor or Block doors with buildings !!
Question : Will it be possible for alien to build OC or chambers everywhere they want ?
Blocking a door/corridor with building was a (lama/interesting) kind of map control, keeping the ennemy from reaching a part of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm really shocked at just how small the hallways are between points. I knew all about the new approach to level-design for NS2, but I didn't think they'd be THAT small... I've always thought a lot of the intensity and atmosphere in NS1 was found in the hallways: Rushing to get to a far away location under attack, sneaking into enemy territory, watching as enemies come barreling down a long hallway towards your last base, and feeling like you were walking around in an abandoned space station that, under normal circumstances, would be packed with people.
I have great faith in NS2 being an awesome, extremely fun game, and I think I'm finally seeing it as a new game, rather than NS of a new flavor.
Hallways in general are very bad from a design standpoint though, they only provide one type of environment which is a linear one. You come from one direction and the enemy (usually) comes from the other, and you go directly at each other and fight until one of you loses. It doesn't matter what you do to the hallway, it will always produce that gameplay, because that is more or less what a hallway is by definition.
A room on the other hand is by definition something which lets you move side to side, a square room the length of the average hallway offers exponentially more gameplay options, because you can fight across it in any direction. Assuming the simplest construction which is a room with a door on either side, you can arrange the room to create battle lines across it, so fighting across the room gives you the option of fighting across several different parts of the room which may all be quite different from each other. If you add two more doors you get the possibility of multiple points of reinforcement and fighting diagonally across the room, possibly while others are going directly across it. If you give one side more entry points than the other you can have the mechanic of being surrounded.
Basically you can do a lot more with rooms, rooms are always better than corridors unless you specifically want a very linear style for that area, which you should avoid doing too often when there are lots of other styles you can use.
Yeah well you need everything. In NS1 Onos need corridor to hide in the corners, and to stomp effectively. Onos in big room was nearly often dead ! were jeatpack were unbeatable.
<!--quoteo(post=1776596:date=Jul 1 2010, 08:12 AM:name=Hamlet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamlet @ Jul 1 2010, 08:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776596"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I thought NS was about capturing and holding the most RTs...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol. A good % of marine games have been won with only 2 - 3 rts. On the otherside aliens can often get 3 hives and no rts and lose. This game is (was?) alot less linear than that =D.
I have a feeling Kharaa buildings can only be built on Dynamic Infestation.
Excpetions are:
RES Nodes Tunnel Network Exit(think the Nyduc Worm from NS2) Gorge Hydra(possibly)
-OR-
Any Alien Structure not built on Dynamic Infestation takes a lot longer to gestate. Although I really do think the Alien Kommander will be only limited to build a certain distance from DI.
*****
In PUBs, it is all about camping Alien Spawn with a LMG. That is what usually decides the game in the first few minutes.
<!--quoteo(post=1776445:date=Jun 29 2010, 10:30 PM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jun 29 2010, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1776445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah well you need everything. In NS1 Onos need corridor to hide in the corners, and to stomp effectively. Onos in big room was nearly often dead ! were jeatpack were unbeatable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A better solution is to improve the onos, or possibly nerf jetpacks against them, rather than imposing severe limitations on other classes and maps in general.
If one class doesn't work where all the others do, it's probably not a very versatile class, so it should be given some more abilities to make it more useful.
Really speaking you shouldn't have half the combat be in the air and everyone else be on the ground with melee attacks, flying has a number of problems because it messes with your design if you can fly over everything. For my money I'd suggest making jetpacks and fade blinking less about flying around over everything and instead make them utility powers that let you move somewhere once in a while. If you keep the majority of the combat on the ground it lets you make much more interesting maps because you can actually use height advantages and pit obstacles throughout the game. Plus it means you don't have to waste one slot per alien class with an ability whose only purpose is to kill/stop jetpackers in order to make that class competitive against jetpackers.
The ns2_tram design reminds me a lot of one of the inbox Dawn of War 2 3v3 maps, where in the north you have resources and two natural expansions, which will lead to conflict in the north-center over the resource rich area. However, the south contains the 5th and last expansion point, along with additional resources. If you neglect the south, the enemy will out-tech you. If you neglect the north, he'll out-resource you and put pressure on your expansion. in the DoW2 map, you had the lion's share of req points in the north w/ 2 victory points, while the south featured the majority of the power resource and a 3rd victory point. From my experience on that map from an RTS perspective I expect that this tram design looks good in terms of ensuring conflict occurs on all parts of the map. There's two "main" lanes with different ways to approach them. Another point to consider is that while the north has 3 resource nodes in close proximity by the tram hub and repair, the south provides the closest resource node from the starting locations. So securing that is just as important as securing the first expansion and the north. If you focus exclusively on the north then you're giving up 3 resource nodes in the south, and if the enemy goes for the south they will have a resource advantage in the short-term, which they can use against you as you settle in your first expansion and press on the top center.
It's certainly a very different design from the original NS, but it does seem a lot more strategic. Its less about controlling a specific room (hive room) and more about controlling an entire map.
I also like the power grid concept. While it does seem limiting at first glance, the fact that you have additional control consoles means that at any given time there's really only a small number of points that the khaara could attack that would have an impact on the power grid. But attacking one exposes another, so you can mount a comeback by attacking one of the weak points and hitting something else when they move to respond. In ns2_tram there looks to be very few connection points that would really be severed. Also, I love the dynamic where on one hand you have a growing infestation and on the other hand you have the marines fighting to restore and control the facility. The power grid concept means that as the marines acquire more territory it is harder to defend it all, and there are weak links exposed that could be exploited to allow a comeback. I hope the same is true on the khaara side too, where marines have the ability to make a comeback when the Khaara control most of the map.
However, I too greatly enjoyed the random spawn locations. While I understand the manpower to make this happen in v1.0 isn't there, could you at least randomize the two fixed starting locations? While the overall layout of the map has some symmetry, the little bits that are different on each side can drastically change gameplay, so one way to restore that bit of variation that we like could be to switch the sides randomly. It would also help expose some of the map imbalances or discover facets of the map that work well and those that don't for various tactics. If nothing else it will make the most of the single map in Alpha.
However, the vent design of ns2_tram does make me think it is tailored to give the Khaara side a better vent-mobility advantage. Khaara-side has a lot more vent openings, while the marine-side has fewer and shorter vents. The vents on the marine side look like they are there to allow bypassing of a choke point while the vents on the Khaara side look as though they are designed for rapid-transit to the middle of the map. That might be why you don't randomize them...but I think it would be cool if you could balance it such that they are randomizable. Maybe by making a similar vent structure on both sides but have it such that the vents aren't always open depending on who controls the room. Perhaps you could link vent-closures or hatches inside the vents themselves that can be opened-closed by marines if there is power in the room via a switch. The chokepoint-bypass vents could simply not have switches and always be open while the mobility-enhancing vents could have switches. You could do in-vent switches by turning on/off fans in the vents. When the fan is on the khaara inside get diced if they try to run through it, while if the power is off the fan in the vent is off, allowing them passage. This is another way to allow dynamic pathways to open and close and give another reason to control that territory for Marines, and another reason to attack it for the Khaara to open up new attack pathways.
Comments
Structures and ammo supplies and hives are merely facilitators of that mechanic, you can do it just as well with battlefield flags or TF2 control points.
Because from my point of view, when i'm moving on the map it's not only about "killing"
I can do
_Cover and protect RT
_destroy Alien RT where alien aren't
_go to hive in secret to make some Secret Rush PG
_Go to a spot where no-one is to make a secondary base
_Scouting
_Make some diversion
THIS is something you don't have to worry in a FULL FPS game.
It's the RTS aspect of game.
And we can do that only if the map is BIG enough.
But maybe you weren't aware of that and maybe you're just a basic "giv'me my f--king shotgun noob commander" soldier.
Staring at structures until they are built repeatedly is not entertaining gameplay, guarding an RT in the arse end of nowhere is not entertaining gameplay, ending a game in thirty seconds by building a phase gate in the hive room is not entertaining gameplay. These are all things you assign mindless AI units to do in RTS games, and there is a very good reason for that, it's because doing it yourself is not entertaining.
We have turrets to guard things, res towers to collect resources, and now weld bots to do repair work. These are all intelligent additions designed to prevent players from having to do incredibly boring RTS unit tasks and allow them to focus on the FPS tasks of shooting up their enemies. You should not have emphasis on boring RTS busy work for the same reason you should not have a harvester class, a turret class, or unit that can do nothing but build and fix base structures class.
The rts of nowadays have nothing to do with age of empire 1 for example.
Now, you just have to push one button and it make everything for you.
Stupid thing like clicking to build a villagers every 18seconde on age of empire 1 were priceless. it's micromanagement.
Things are thinked for newbies now..
Having to babysit my collectors does not entertain me, however thinking about how to move my squads into cover well in company of heroes does.
Similarly, having to perform banal tasks in a badly put together fpsrts does not entertain me, however the way in which the pleasing fluidity of the structure based control point system affects the normal FPS gameplay does.
The only reason I liked old games is because I didn't know any better, we hadn't invented things like AI or automation or control groups or having more than eight units selected at once. Now that we have, I have no desire to return to the dark ages. Same goes for any improvement in automation, in any field.
Thanks.
--Cory
Dead space in maps is never a good thing, you should always have the map space in use, otherwise there is no point having it. If you have space that isn't being used, either make changes to encourage its use, especially if other parts are too congested, or remove it.
NS1 usually had very limited confrontation, the entire game was a constant skirmish with no real heavy fighting until one side was about to win, either the marines started sieging hives or the aliens started onosing marine bases, either way it's a curb stomp battle at that point.
Much better to have an FPS game where you get lots of good action going for the duration of the game rather than lots of running around chasing ref nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You never memorizing half the maps layout has less to do with the game and more with yourself.
Most ns_maps have very little dead space which obviously depends on playernumbers and how the rounds will end up. Of course if marines shotgun rape the hive in the first 5 minutes 2/3rd of the map will be "dead space" but in real rounds where serveral hives get dropped and killed and the marine base gets torn down just for them to reloc it's a constant struggle between both teams that involves all parts of the map over the course of the round.
I can't think of many place where i didn't experience some heavy fighting over the course of playing NS for years. It kinda suprises me.. heck even the most stupid vent far outside the map has some very intense memories for me may it be a stupid last resort reloc or jetpack vs fade fights.
Judging from what you are describing you haven't had the same experience maybe because the lack of playtime or maybe because you only played very stacked rounds.
<!--quoteo(post=1775963:date=Jun 23 2010, 09:35 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jun 23 2010, 09:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can do all of those as well, but the point is that none of those are interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And because they are not interesting to you they need to be removed? Those things are exactly what makes NS stand out compared to other MP FPS. The option to be really stealthy. I can't count the number of games i've seen totaly turn around because of a smart ninja getting a PG up or the comm totaly outplaying the alien team. Confrontation isn't the only way to win NS and it shouldn't be the only way. Heck for the most part i enjoy ninjaing around the map way more than ending up in spamfast between lerk spores and oni stomps with HA's and JP's inbetween, of course these are awesome too but i like the ninja gameplay more.
NS is one of these rare MP games where you actually can outthink your enemy instead of just outgunning him, evading skulks on purpose so the alien team won't be aware of your presence. Waiting with RT/chamber takedowns till the rest of the team is busy distracting the alien team on the other side of the map so you can escape after killing it, timing your ninja PG build between alien respawns so you won't be discovered. It's all these things that make the gameplay unique, the choise of your approach and it actually working if you chose an approach that isn't "SHOTGUN IN FACE"....
If you want a non-stop in your face action game than maybe you should be playing quake? Because NS is much but it isn't a pure twitch action shooter, there is a huge metagame involved in every round of NS and that metagame often wins the round.
Well i think it kinda keys into the ns2_tram discussion, because after all map design impacts the gameplay and possible strategies. The original argument had been "the map is too linear" and a too linear map limits strategies. But of course that discussion is a little bit pointless considering that there will probably more maps and hopefully bigger and more complex ones.
The limitation on CC's only beeing buildable at tech points still worries me anyway..
Yess
Not possible to reloc in corridor or Block doors with buildings !!
Question : Will it be possible for alien to build OC or chambers everywhere they want ?
Blocking a door/corridor with building was a (lama/interesting) kind of map control, keeping the ennemy from reaching a part of the map.
the concept art feels more epic, and im guessing this is because of: firstly the perspective - this cant be helped, and secondly the lighting.
Needs more sinister looming shadows or rays of light flittering through vents or something. More contrast creates atmosphere, makes world come alive.
of course the down side to big shadows is the skulks that are inevitably in them
the concept art feels more epic, and im guessing this is because of: firstly the perspective - this cant be helped, and secondly the lighting.
Needs more sinister looming shadows or rays of light flittering through vents or something. More contrast creates atmosphere, makes world come alive.
of course the down side to big shadows is the skulks that are inevitably in them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go into the model viewer. Open the skulk model. Drag him into the shadows. You will notice their eyes glow in the dark. This is assumed for all the alien classes, meaning marines will have the ability to somewhat see alien player positions. The MASC also has headlights on it( I asked Cory about it in the past) along with the welder bots :D
Also keep in mind about the Marine Power Grid. If a room doesn't have a resource tower built in it, or a connecting room without a resource tower in it (besides the techpoint room with a command station in it), the power will be off, meaning: Darkness everywhere! Lighting is definately going to play a huge role in this game, and I cannot wait to have those intense battles in the dark, watching my back to make sure no skulks are about to ambush me!
Too much judging going on for this game, people still need to realise the gameplay is not the exact same as NS1 gameplay. Abilities, movement, strucutres, weapons, AI units, commanding, are all going to act so much differently. Of course I'm worried about some of the gameplay features myself, but I'm still optimistic. I do think NS2 will be unique from NS1, and provide a new level of skill, and enchantment in the FPS or RTS game industry.
Not possible to reloc in corridor or Block doors with buildings !!
Question : Will it be possible for alien to build OC or chambers everywhere they want ?
Blocking a door/corridor with building was a (lama/interesting) kind of map control, keeping the ennemy from reaching a part of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that's the point of welding doors.
I have great faith in NS2 being an awesome, extremely fun game, and I think I'm finally seeing it as a new game, rather than NS of a new flavor.
(Yea, I'm late.)
A room on the other hand is by definition something which lets you move side to side, a square room the length of the average hallway offers exponentially more gameplay options, because you can fight across it in any direction. Assuming the simplest construction which is a room with a door on either side, you can arrange the room to create battle lines across it, so fighting across the room gives you the option of fighting across several different parts of the room which may all be quite different from each other. If you add two more doors you get the possibility of multiple points of reinforcement and fighting diagonally across the room, possibly while others are going directly across it. If you give one side more entry points than the other you can have the mechanic of being surrounded.
Basically you can do a lot more with rooms, rooms are always better than corridors unless you specifically want a very linear style for that area, which you should avoid doing too often when there are lots of other styles you can use.
In NS1 Onos need corridor to hide in the corners, and to stomp effectively.
Onos in big room was nearly often dead ! were jeatpack were unbeatable.
lol. A good % of marine games have been won with only 2 - 3 rts. On the otherside aliens can often get 3 hives and no rts and lose.
This game is (was?) alot less linear than that =D.
Excpetions are:
RES Nodes
Tunnel Network Exit(think the Nyduc Worm from NS2)
Gorge Hydra(possibly)
-OR-
Any Alien Structure not built on Dynamic Infestation takes a lot longer to gestate. Although I really do think the Alien Kommander will be only limited to build a certain distance from DI.
*****
In PUBs, it is all about camping Alien Spawn with a LMG. That is what usually decides the game in the first few minutes.
In NS1 Onos need corridor to hide in the corners, and to stomp effectively.
Onos in big room was nearly often dead ! were jeatpack were unbeatable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A better solution is to improve the onos, or possibly nerf jetpacks against them, rather than imposing severe limitations on other classes and maps in general.
If one class doesn't work where all the others do, it's probably not a very versatile class, so it should be given some more abilities to make it more useful.
Really speaking you shouldn't have half the combat be in the air and everyone else be on the ground with melee attacks, flying has a number of problems because it messes with your design if you can fly over everything. For my money I'd suggest making jetpacks and fade blinking less about flying around over everything and instead make them utility powers that let you move somewhere once in a while. If you keep the majority of the combat on the ground it lets you make much more interesting maps because you can actually use height advantages and pit obstacles throughout the game. Plus it means you don't have to waste one slot per alien class with an ability whose only purpose is to kill/stop jetpackers in order to make that class competitive against jetpackers.
It's certainly a very different design from the original NS, but it does seem a lot more strategic. Its less about controlling a specific room (hive room) and more about controlling an entire map.
I also like the power grid concept. While it does seem limiting at first glance, the fact that you have additional control consoles means that at any given time there's really only a small number of points that the khaara could attack that would have an impact on the power grid. But attacking one exposes another, so you can mount a comeback by attacking one of the weak points and hitting something else when they move to respond. In ns2_tram there looks to be very few connection points that would really be severed. Also, I love the dynamic where on one hand you have a growing infestation and on the other hand you have the marines fighting to restore and control the facility. The power grid concept means that as the marines acquire more territory it is harder to defend it all, and there are weak links exposed that could be exploited to allow a comeback. I hope the same is true on the khaara side too, where marines have the ability to make a comeback when the Khaara control most of the map.
However, I too greatly enjoyed the random spawn locations. While I understand the manpower to make this happen in v1.0 isn't there, could you at least randomize the two fixed starting locations? While the overall layout of the map has some symmetry, the little bits that are different on each side can drastically change gameplay, so one way to restore that bit of variation that we like could be to switch the sides randomly. It would also help expose some of the map imbalances or discover facets of the map that work well and those that don't for various tactics. If nothing else it will make the most of the single map in Alpha.
However, the vent design of ns2_tram does make me think it is tailored to give the Khaara side a better vent-mobility advantage. Khaara-side has a lot more vent openings, while the marine-side has fewer and shorter vents. The vents on the marine side look like they are there to allow bypassing of a choke point while the vents on the Khaara side look as though they are designed for rapid-transit to the middle of the map. That might be why you don't randomize them...but I think it would be cool if you could balance it such that they are randomizable. Maybe by making a similar vent structure on both sides but have it such that the vents aren't always open depending on who controls the room. Perhaps you could link vent-closures or hatches inside the vents themselves that can be opened-closed by marines if there is power in the room via a switch. The chokepoint-bypass vents could simply not have switches and always be open while the mobility-enhancing vents could have switches. You could do in-vent switches by turning on/off fans in the vents. When the fan is on the khaara inside get diced if they try to run through it, while if the power is off the fan in the vent is off, allowing them passage. This is another way to allow dynamic pathways to open and close and give another reason to control that territory for Marines, and another reason to attack it for the Khaara to open up new attack pathways.