Proxy Production buildings

yourbonesakin

Alien team can drop a structure which spawns players on the map. Structure can be killed and does not provide healing like a Hive does. Think of it as a pseudo-Hive which provides only the spawning features of the Hive. It would not allow more respawns than usual. So aliens with 1 Hive would still be limited to 1 respawn/10 seconds (or whatever it is).

The structure would have low hitpoints (I'm talkin' 500-1000 HP; enough that a lone marine can take it down in one or two LMG clips. That's less than an OC). If placed on infestation, it would have more HP (perhaps 3000 HP, as much as a resource tower).

This structure would cost as much as a Hive, making it very very prohibitive to use. Early game pushes supported by this structure would be an "all in" or very aggresive tactic, similar to but much less powerful than "No IP, 8 Shotgun rush" Marine strategies.

The building would be as large as an NS1 hive and impossible to place in the skulk-focused vent systems of NS2. A mapper will have to <i>go out of their way to make possible placing this structure in a vent</i>.

I want this to be Tier 1 research available at the start of the game. It would make scouting more important in the early game. AComms could set up a forward production building to reinforce a initial base rush. It is not as powerful as phase gates obviously, because it has a much less rapid infantry production rate. Because it cannot add to an initial rush (by giving more skulks) or make it quicker (skulks will be able to run faster to Marine Start before it can be finished) and can only strengthen a rush if the Marines defend a rush and kill skulks, I think this is fair game for Tier 1 technology. Marines also have the distress beacon to counter resource expenditure to improve a rush with resource expenditure to improve base defense.

After the early game, it would reduce the cumbersome walking periods and increase spawning options in case of a spawn camp situation.

Is this chill with everyone?

Edit: Added in the low HP and high resource cost.
Edit: Added in the size factor making vent placement impossible.

Thank you everyone who has responded, especially those with criticism. Really helps whip this suggestion into shape.

brownymaster

From what I heard, spawn camping would be made a little bit harder to begin with by blending spawns with dynamic infestation somehow. But I think so long as a psuedo-spawn is limited to certain infested areas only, it'd be fine. However, I don't agree with letting aliens spawn close to a newly built hive so that they can easily respawn in better places near the hive instead of either taking the hive teleport risk or taking the long walk. The walk period for aliens is nothing compared to marine walk times honestly (especially with vent access), marines needed the PG way more.

yourbonesakin

<!--quoteo(post=1774736:date=Jun 13 2010, 10:20 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774736"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From what I heard, spawn camping would be made a little bit harder to begin with by blending spawns with dynamic infestation somehow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right about that and Unknown Worlds deserves a pat on the back for it. I would rather give the players of the game another tool if possible to defeat "un fun" behavior rather than rely on the developers to foresee all possible abuses in every spawn location on every map.

<!--quoteo(post=1774736:date=Jun 13 2010, 10:20 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774736"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think so long as a psuedo-spawn is limited to certain infested areas only, it'd be fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That would annul the half the lethality of this suggestion; basically making it much more defensive than offensive. Why limit it?

Playing a defensively minded game is lot like playing rock paper scissors except 90% of the time nobody gets to win. Why should we limit the offensive power of this suggestion? If one's worried about early game rushes, well, this is the wrong genre of game for people who don't like early game rushes. See SC1 and SC2. The possibility of early game rushes makes the entire length of a match exciting, from the point that players usually begin gathering resources to the final battle. Taking that away would make the first minutes of NS2 very boring, stale, and repetitive.

If the structure is too powerful, then it can be nerfed. Either in hitpoints/armor (I like this one; it means marines can counter rush the proxy building and take it out easily; skulks will have to defend it or go "all in" offense and take out the marines), resource cost (I like this one), build time (meh; stymies early game rushes), respawn rate, visibility/audibility (like making an unmistakable sound so everyone knows the structure is going up somewhere on the map and there's no surprise OR making the building uncloakable), possible location (meh; limits the entire point), etc. etc. etc.

That's up to the alpha/beta testers and the developers to decide.

<!--quoteo(post=1774736:date=Jun 13 2010, 10:20 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774736"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, I don't agree with letting aliens spawn close to a newly built hive so that they can easily respawn in better places near the hive instead of either taking the hive teleport risk or taking the long walk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't understand the train of thought here. We have the hive warp which would reduce reinforcement times. And the suggestion of a proxy production building which reduces reinforcement times in any situation. Why is a reduced reinforcement period okay in any other situation but the one where we already have it? I'm not being a jerk here; I'm honestly curious about that.

brownymaster

Just because something starts overpowered and can be nerfed doesn't mean it should be kept in the game. Nerfing something isn't "simple as that," it becomes a long drawn out dispute between players and/or devs whether something is right or wrong, and everybody will vouch for their side and you have to constantly keep patching the game which takes resources and periods of imbalance. Balance is something that is not easy, especially with asymmetrical gameplay. If you've ever played HoN, half the heroes start out way overpowered and get nerfed down until they're pretty much not used. Just because this structure is added to the game and can be nerfed won't justify the time and effort to end up with a minimally used product because making it any more useful would imbalance gameplay. Many heroes in HoN fell from the godlike to the never used position. Considering it takes about $50,000 to make a hero from them, it wouldn't be worth it to have a hero constantly whined about being IMBA or too weak to end up leaving it in a position where it's useless simply because there's no way for it to fit into gameplay. I feel making sure it can provide fair depth into the game before putting effort into it is more important than simply trying so many ideas, especially with limited resources and an already delayed release time. Of course, if you're valve and can afford pumping out more useless stuff in TF2 it's really a non-issue, but this game is yet to be released and I don't want to risk an addition that complicates release that doesn't outweigh benefits.

Anyways, aliens are a defensive class by nature. Reducing respawn times so they can continue the assault won't even necessarily help aliens. However, the ability to get into better positions is the main issue. If they can build this structure in vents, you'll soon have to keep lookouts everywhere near marine start because they can just stream in from an unreachable place. If you're going to force mappers to account for this, they'll be constricted to a different type of map layout and have to map out extra "no X structure but allow every other structure" flags everywhere. The issue of rushing and proxying is very funny and amazing in SC games, but SC is an entirely different game strategy. Also, SC limits the zerg to building in creep, NO PROXY. Why? they have the quickest units out, the zerglings. Zerg rushes could be brutal, but every marine player walls in to minimize the zerg rush altogether. I don't think there are wall-ins in NS (structure blocking is pretty damn ######). Marines in NS have to be out of the base early game, and they can't have to play a 3+ front war at the very start. They aren't dying fast enough to have a marine always near base to defend. They need a proxy ability because they are slow
and play as a mobile group, not a sit in wall in then wait until you've mined enough resources so that you can make a sustainable push or vulture rush. It's just not the same.

Hive warp is stoppable by marines not attacking the hive and keeping aliens away from it. That way marines would be able to get a contain before they killed the hive. I just feel like early on marines should be able to contain better considering lategame it's usually impossible to contain and a matter of assaults.

spellman23

If the main reason is to prevent spawn camping, this isn't the way to do it.

If the main reason is to provide proxy locations a la StarCraft proxy Barracks/Pylons, I'm afraid of being able to place these in every vent and for Aliens to dominate the map by never spawning along the main routes. Being unable to control the map because Aliens are spawning behind your lines where you can't reach them seems like a bad idea.


If these had to be spawned in large areas or DI to provide reinforce points, this could work. The two games where this respawn beacon works that come to mind are BF2142 and CoD:MW2. However, those were limited either to only the squad or only to the individual. The limit is what is important here. Suddenly having the entire Alien team suicide and spawn in the room next to Marine Start would be rather... absurd and painful. Granted, Marines would try this via Phase Gates, but they still had to spawn in Marine Start and jump into a phase gate.


I think for most situations Hive Warp covers your map-jumping needs for the Aliens.

pSyk0mAn

Aliens already have this DI tunnel thing going on, at least that was the plan, dunno about its current developement state.

yourbonesakin

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because something starts overpowered and can be nerfed doesn't mean it should be kept in the game. Nerfing something isn't "simple as that," it becomes a long drawn out dispute between players and/or devs whether something is right or wrong, and everybody will vouch for their side and you have to constantly keep patching the game which takes resources and periods of imbalance. Balance is something that is not easy, especially with asymmetrical gameplay. If you've ever played HoN, half the heroes start out way overpowered and get nerfed down until they're pretty much not used. Just because this structure is added to the game and can be nerfed won't justify the time and effort to end up with a minimally used product because making it any more useful would imbalance gameplay. Many heroes in HoN fell from the godlike to the never used position. Considering it takes about $50,000 to make a hero from them, it wouldn't be worth it to have a hero constantly whined about being IMBA or too weak to end up leaving it in a position where it's useless simply because there's no way for it to fit into gameplay. I feel making sure it can provide fair depth into the game before putting effort into it is more important than simply trying so many ideas, especially with limited resources and an already delayed release time. Of course, if you're valve and can afford pumping out more useless stuff in TF2 it's really a non-issue, but this game is yet to be released and I don't want to risk an addition that complicates release that doesn't outweigh benefits.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You have a very good argument. Unknown Worlds is indeed not Valve or Blizzard so they can't waste time balancing stuff in a long and drawn out process because they just don't have the money for it. But it is the developer's choice to take this suggestion up or not. If they think they can make this work, that is their choice, not mine and not anyone else's. So that argument is not for us to argue but for the developers to argue. If this suggestion is infeasible, it won't be picked up, simple as that. Again I stress you make a very good argument. I should not have said "simple as that".

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyways, aliens are a defensive class by nature. Reducing respawn times so they can continue the assault won't even necessarily help aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... I do not think Aliens are defensive in comparison to Marines. Marines are better at turtling. Aliens have a higher movement speed and can kill unguarded RTs solo while it is difficult for a lone marine to do the same (Though teams of marines take out RTs like nobody's business).

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, the ability to get into better positions is the main issue. If they can build this structure in vents, you'll soon have to keep lookouts everywhere near marine start because they can just stream in from an unreachable place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or just make the structure too big to fit in any vent. I think the vents of NS2 are supposed to be skulk focused (I've heard "vent system just for skulks" multiple times in the blogs) and thus small, so this shouldn't be too difficult. Make the thing as big as a hive and vent play will be impossible, unless a mapper <i>goes out of their way to make it possible</i>.

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, SC limits the zerg to building in creep, NO PROXY. Why? they have the quickest units out, the zerglings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is untrue.

Zerg production buildings can be built anywhere. They are called hatcheries and they can spawn zerglings from anywhere on the map.

Another note: Zerglings are as fast as Zealots and Marines. It takes an upgrade (and 100 vespene gas) to upgrade zergling speed. By the time the upgrade can be finished, the rush is no longer an early rush and more likely a break in, run by, or simple early push.

Your point about zergling speed and limiting zerg buildings to the creep has been nullified.

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Zerg rushes could be brutal, but every marine player walls in to minimize the zerg rush altogether.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very true. In a Terran vs. Zerg match, not walling off is asking for a zergling run by and defeat.

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think there are wall-ins in NS (structure blocking is pretty damn ######). Marines in NS have to be out of the base early game, and they can't have to play a 3+ front war at the very start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree about wall-ins. It just doesn't work for an FPS/RTS.
Regardless, your argument is nonsensical. Marines are already fighting a 3+ front war from the very start. A skulk horde outside Marine start waiting for the Marines to leave is vanilla play.

This suggestion does not amplify the initial rush of 10 skulks. It simply makes it stronger if the marines defend it. Because of a high resource cost, supporting a semi-successful early game rush with this structure would be an "all in" tactic. The AComm will have an option to add extra juice to an early rush that didn't quite work. I think Marines having a distress beacon is the equivalent to adding extra juice to a base defense that didn't quite work.

Do you think that makes things equal?

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They aren't dying fast enough to have a marine always near base to defend. They need a proxy ability because they are slow and play as a mobile group, not a sit in wall in then wait until you've mined enough resources so that you can make a sustainable push or vulture rush. It's just not the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do not know what this means. Can you please clarify? Is the "They" SC1 Terrans or NS Marines?

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hive warp is stoppable by marines not attacking the hive and keeping aliens away from it. That way marines would be able to get a contain before they killed the hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very true. Marines also have the option of dropping lots of shotguns and then taking down the hive before aliens can walk back. And if the Marines clear a hive of aliens, they deserve to take their time, charge up their laser, and take it out in one fell swoop without the Aliens warping in anyway.

If the proxy building we're talking about had a prohibitive resource cost (costing as much as the hive to be defended), and was very easy to kill (I'm talkin' one marine can solo it with one clip or two of an LMG), would the scenario of the AComm using the suggested building to defend their gestating hive surrounded by Marines be okay?

<!--quoteo(post=1774741:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Jun 13 2010, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774741"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just feel like early on marines should be able to contain better considering lategame it's usually impossible to contain and a matter of assaults.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you mean that marines should be able to contain aliens better? There are vents every where and there is always another angle to get into a room even in NS1. The entire point of a quick wall-walking vent-crawling Tier 1 alien unit is that no RT is safe, no room is permanently clear, and home base is just one good skulk rush from getting decimated.

I think that is a good recipe for frantic gameplay. Whether or not one thinks frantic gameplay is fun or is horrible is a matter of opinion. I happen to think that a lot of action is a good thing. You're absolutely correct that too much action is crap and makes the game a rush fest which is no fun for any one. However, I think my suggestion is just facilitating the Alien rush mentality that has always been there (correct me if I'm wrong).

If I have insulted or offended you in any way, I apologize deeply. I got sort of hot under the collar, so again, sorry if I got too heated.

yourbonesakin

<!--quoteo(post=1774745:date=Jun 14 2010, 12:09 AM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Jun 14 2010, 12:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens already have this DI tunnel thing going on, at least that was the plan, dunno about its current developement state.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that's true, then this suggestion would be obviated entirely and should not be put into the game.

<!--quoteo(post=1774743:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:56 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jun 13 2010, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the main reason is to prevent spawn camping, this isn't the way to do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not, but fair point.

<!--quoteo(post=1774743:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:56 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jun 13 2010, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the main reason is to provide proxy locations a la StarCraft proxy Barracks/Pylons, I'm afraid of being able to place these in every vent and for Aliens to dominate the map by never spawning along the main routes. Being unable to control the map because Aliens are spawning behind your lines where you can't reach them seems like a bad idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my mega post above, I suggested making the structure too big to fit in any vent. As big as a hive. The vents of NS2 are skulk focused (I read "vent systems made for skulks" multiple times), and will thus be small, so this will not be difficult. Unless a mapper <i>goes out of their way to make it possible</i>, it will be impossible.

<!--quoteo(post=1774743:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:56 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jun 13 2010, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The limit is what is important here. Suddenly having the entire Alien team suicide and spawn in the room next to Marine Start would be rather... absurd and painful. Granted, Marines would try this via Phase Gates, but they still had to spawn in Marine Start and jump into a phase gate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The respawn would take a while, to be sure. And Marines can and do already do this. It's called a ninja phase gate rush. It happens semi-rarely in NS1 nowadays and I think it adds positively to the game.

<!--quoteo(post=1774743:date=Jun 13 2010, 11:56 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jun 13 2010, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think for most situations Hive Warp covers your map-jumping needs for the Aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very true. I'd like for the possibility of offensive minded map-jumping because I think an offensive style game is more fun than defensive style games.

Cheezy104

I do think a spawn/transport building would be very nice and fit into the game, as long as where it can be placed is limited.

Something like the SC2 Nydus Worm, which can only be built ontop of creep. Kharaa could get some building which comes from the infestation or something.

Also, can Marines build stuff outside their main base without a Command thingy? It'd be nice to be able to place IP's around the map for sneakyness (proxy shotgun rush omg yeah).

brownymaster

I meant early game marines should have a contain and are on the offense whereas aliens are on the defense early game. Lategame I agree is totally untrue, where both teams are equally on the offense or losing. Earlygame the most progress is made by aliens by denying marines the contain through ambushing and sabotaging RTs. Ambushing is how an alien team can win the game early anyways, if they wipe out 75% of the marines respawn times allow them to stroll into the marine base and win (unless an early obs is up). Aliens are actually advantage and disadvantaged by the longer distances from the front by not being spawn camped because marines have to walk forever to get to the alien hives.

Also, your SC analogy about hatchery being built anywhere is nullified by the fact that it can't be a rush/proxy because of the time it takes to build that hatchery, sacrificing minerals and time needed to be allocated to a spawning pool or zerglings. The purpose of a proxy in SC was to rush, and zerg can't proxy rush; they simply have to build faster than the other races. A fast expo is entirely different, and expanding anywhere is really just how zerg players get on equal ground. The speed upgrade IS rushable, proxy hatcheries are really not. There might be one exception (Monty Hall proleague game I saw was the only example of a true zerg proxy I have ever seen).

Finally, I do think that a nydus worm-esc structure would be more reasonable so long as it is restricted or teched and limited to lower lifeforms. A reverse MC basically. I think it'd be more balanced considering it requires double the structures like the PG does and can be killed from two sides (when you have a contain, you can prevent higher lifeforms from getting as easily or prevent aliens from escaping the area and get some spawn camp)

spellman23

<!--quoteo(post=1774773:date=Jun 14 2010, 04:48 AM:name=Cheezy104)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cheezy104 @ Jun 14 2010, 04:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774773"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, can Marines build stuff outside their main base without a Command thingy? It'd be nice to be able to place IP's around the map for sneakyness (proxy shotgun rush omg yeah).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

IPs in NS1 were only buildable around a Command Chair. Thus, not really ninja-able since a CC+IP cost quite a bit of res and build time. Thus the typical way was a sneaky Phase Gate, beacon all Marines, drop shotties and jump into the PG.

Similarly, The Zerg in SC1 and SC2 have hatcheries which could, in theory be build anywhere, but they're so expensive and build so slow no one in their right mind would ever try a proxy build as Zerg. Instead, you take advantage of their superior movespeeds and numbers.



A kinda of Nydus/DI tunnel would work much better imo. Sure we're copying the Marines, but a slow 1 spawn at a time that takes up a whole room for the Zerg doesn't make sense. Plus, the concept map designs show so far make the maps feel more like a cluster of rooms with some passageways instead of the more sprawling network in NS1 to give more importance to each room.

I totally agree some of my favorite times are offensive PG jumping/Hive drop->jump. I just don't think a proxy spawn point will work properly.

Jimyd

The beefier NS2 Turrets with Upgrades serve as the "Marine Walloff" in the early game now. 2-3 at the start of the game should keep most small rushes of Skulks at bay(coupled with 1-3 Marines).

I assume this on a balanced 12vs12 server(16vs16 is just too much; 24 players is just right).

Remember, you don't put all your Marines on 1 side of the map, you spread them out for good coverage. Since maps seem to be simpler, I think it will be much harder to do those epic Skulk/Gorge Base Rushes.

Chris0132

The infestation tunnel mechanic that was proposed would seem to negate any need for forward spawns.

Much better to have teleporters that let fully equipped units get to the front than things that spawn them there automatically and probably without any upgrades/gear.