Grappel Hook,a Rocket Pack Alternative, with Ex.
Zomnivore
Join Date: 2010-06-06 Member: 71975Members
Join Date: 2010-06-06 Member: 71975Members
I think a good alternative to the jetpack would be a grapple hook, which has real life implications, systems to travel fast up, and down while limiting the control of the player, jetpacks however are somewhat more free moving. (http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/gadgets/mit-develops-ultrafast-rope-climbing-device.asp)
The grappling system could give players a distinct disadvantage for a short time, while they use it, this could be something you might want when making a game.
It also has the added feature of being somewhat more novel than the jetpack, seen in games like tribes, and section 8 and a whole host of mech games, also new releases like halo, and Killzone 3 will have some jetpack, and this gives you a way to stand out while also offering a good alternative, with some of its own special mechanics.
Some real world examples of what I'm sorta thinking of, may have to scroll on a few of these, but basically the idea is it moves you up, fast.
(http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/05/five-gadgets-th/)
(http://fgadgets.com/15-futuristic-gadgets-and-newest-technologies)
(http://www.gizmag.com/go/6837/)
Could be a hand held weapon, or some shoulder/backpack that fires into the ceiling, the worlds your oyster* it could be something that defines a class type or limits another in its mobility(although a jetpack would do the same) it also gives a bit of importance on team play, someones got to watch your back, and if you get ambushed at the top, well another strategy to counter and plan!
Now, I must repeat I love jetpacks freaking love em, LOVE EM, but sometimes you don't need a jetpack, or sometimes a jetpack doesn't work with balance, and sometimes people just can't put the resources into jetpacks, but I promise you if they could make an awesome jetpack that "feels" right, you bet I'm gonna be boosting with it, this is just an alternative that keeps some of the flavor, but also gives some other types of control
Games I've seen things similar to my suggestion.
Dark Messiah Might and Magic Single Player: Rope bow (shows a projectile that then trails a rope,was possible for a "stair" affect to reach higher places)
Left4Dead/2: Smoker Tongue( Possible ability for the infection side, drags a player to a spot and can be easily cut with bullets)
Tribes: Vengeance: Grapple Hook(a hand held, that added to directional mobility of skiing and jetting, and could be used to go faster)
Bionic Commando: his arm( shows how cool you can make one of these, and I never played it, although I think it was a 3rd person)
Just Cause 2: His armband thing( didn't care for it, but I think its Grapple is an important leap forward with combos etc, if you want to look at comic fun uses)
Lost Planet 2:grapple hook ( one the ones closest to my idea, but faster)
Spiderman: web slinging( if you want to go biological)
Also, maybe weapon possibilities for dragging or snaring something, or if you're the biological, maybe a tentacle or stinging lash type thing.
If you go shoulder mount you may want to look into Alien Vs Predator for some neat ideas/possibilities
also if you want wall climbing, Alien Vs Predator has some great stuff you can probably learn from.
*** The demon tentacles from "The Darkness" game might make for an interesting biological attack, if its something your interested in.
The grappling system could give players a distinct disadvantage for a short time, while they use it, this could be something you might want when making a game.
It also has the added feature of being somewhat more novel than the jetpack, seen in games like tribes, and section 8 and a whole host of mech games, also new releases like halo, and Killzone 3 will have some jetpack, and this gives you a way to stand out while also offering a good alternative, with some of its own special mechanics.
Some real world examples of what I'm sorta thinking of, may have to scroll on a few of these, but basically the idea is it moves you up, fast.
(http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/05/five-gadgets-th/)
(http://fgadgets.com/15-futuristic-gadgets-and-newest-technologies)
(http://www.gizmag.com/go/6837/)
Could be a hand held weapon, or some shoulder/backpack that fires into the ceiling, the worlds your oyster* it could be something that defines a class type or limits another in its mobility(although a jetpack would do the same) it also gives a bit of importance on team play, someones got to watch your back, and if you get ambushed at the top, well another strategy to counter and plan!
Now, I must repeat I love jetpacks freaking love em, LOVE EM, but sometimes you don't need a jetpack, or sometimes a jetpack doesn't work with balance, and sometimes people just can't put the resources into jetpacks, but I promise you if they could make an awesome jetpack that "feels" right, you bet I'm gonna be boosting with it, this is just an alternative that keeps some of the flavor, but also gives some other types of control
Games I've seen things similar to my suggestion.
Dark Messiah Might and Magic Single Player: Rope bow (shows a projectile that then trails a rope,was possible for a "stair" affect to reach higher places)
Left4Dead/2: Smoker Tongue( Possible ability for the infection side, drags a player to a spot and can be easily cut with bullets)
Tribes: Vengeance: Grapple Hook(a hand held, that added to directional mobility of skiing and jetting, and could be used to go faster)
Bionic Commando: his arm( shows how cool you can make one of these, and I never played it, although I think it was a 3rd person)
Just Cause 2: His armband thing( didn't care for it, but I think its Grapple is an important leap forward with combos etc, if you want to look at comic fun uses)
Lost Planet 2:grapple hook ( one the ones closest to my idea, but faster)
Spiderman: web slinging( if you want to go biological)
Also, maybe weapon possibilities for dragging or snaring something, or if you're the biological, maybe a tentacle or stinging lash type thing.
If you go shoulder mount you may want to look into Alien Vs Predator for some neat ideas/possibilities
also if you want wall climbing, Alien Vs Predator has some great stuff you can probably learn from.
*** The demon tentacles from "The Darkness" game might make for an interesting biological attack, if its something your interested in.
Comments
Someone else want to take this one.
That this might actually be something they would pick? I would hope so, I don't want to waste anyone's time.
Either way I think I outlined a good case, and if its more feasible then we all win.
The first one has FocusedWolf in it. The second is more about ladders.
Natural Selection brought the jetpack to gaming before most other companies did...
Theres the gravity/angle of rope allowed/marine model/rope model/latchpoint angle/... just too many variables. Be ready for lots of crashing.
The rope will bounce around if it dangles ontop of things and such. Free flowing objects have many glitches.
A lot of areas will be confined hallways and smaller rooms where you wouldn't even consider using it.
As for snaring/draging something. They are trying to avoid limiting the players mobility on the battlefield.
You could always implement a mod to a map to require the marines to bring grappling hooks with them to scale rockwalls/other areas. Or even a mod to the game itself.
As for games that have used them. Each one has bugs that correspond with the implementation of the free-flowing rope. And a lot of them use similar rope coding and the common bug I see for that coding is when the rope touches an object in the middle of it dangling and the rope happens to twist on itself it ends up flinging around wildly for no reason trying to straighten itself in a line again. Free flowing rope is hard to model and hasn't been done correctly yet. You left out the Thief series that did this early on and the style of code implementation hasn't changed much since.
Other games like Spiderman, Left 4 Dead, Tribes and such choose the straight-line rope style where there isn't too much issue with it's flow in the world but the gravity and physics on the end and the load it has are just outrageously hilarious and ... well wrong. But those are huge and often open air areas where it isnt much of an issue.
Lost Planet is the funny one where gravity is negated and you are just pulled rapidly to the object :) Making it a movement issue.
All these have world clipping issues where you can fall through floors/ceilings/get stuck in objects. Fling across areas. It is just an utter mess usually. From a testing standpoint, you can find the glitches pretty easily and if you happen to make the better rope. All gaming companies will start using it. But it hasn't been done yet.
First you fire and see the grappling <u>model</u> (just visuals) fly away from you with a quad using rope <u>material</u> (just visuals, but usefull) between the player and the hook. As it is a grappling hook <u>entity</u> (have to code it) you can ofcource have added gravity to it when it flies, and a check to make it have a max length.
When it hit something it check if it is valid (such as not a player), if it is, position it partly inside the object, parent it to object, play a hit <u>sound</u> (just "visuals" XD for the ears), and applyForce/setVel on the player towards it. Remove hook when player is close enough or pressed a button.
Not really hard to do, just unnecesary if you ask me.
The first one has FocusedWolf in it. The second is more about ladders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thx for saving me the effort of searching for that :P
also Starsiege: Tribes came out in 1998, and Natural Selection started on 2002
Tribes 2 came out in 2001... as well so Tribes really did bring a lot of the jetpack joy to the world.
Also I just gave examples of game that used the Hook, and some used it in a fast paced setting, with fast game play implications, if this is desired to be a fast game.
As to the point about too many variables, well flying in the freaking air and having all sorts of land points is a lot of variables, as well as variables for roosting for the flying bio. So I think they can figure it out.
Ropes jiggle, flames and real time lighting might lag, point moot imo.
You don't know what sort of maps can be made as far as I know its pre pre alpha.
Snaring something when they are" Trying to avoid limiting movement" I don't see how it fits if its the same as a spore cloud, except you can shoot the tentacle instead, like in L4D, can stop it via shooting...if that's something they want.
I didn't say it had to follow the games Gravity engine so... If this is zipping up to a ceiling and remove the horizontal, or add specific spots where you can use it...but that decision isn't one I make.
I thinking Jet packs have just as many issues to deal with, as to particle trails real time lighting, and all sorts of balance issues, so as it stands I think its a valid alternative, I don't know what they want to do, but I think all in all its even.
Spider Gorge, spider gorge. Does whatever a spider gorge does.
Spider Gorge, spider gorge. Does whatever a spider gorge does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ending his swing with a belly slide into a row of barrells a la George of the jungle and his trees.
"Gorge, Gorge
Gorge of the Gung-ho,
Wrong as he can be.
(Ahhhhhhhh)
Watch out for that debris.
Gorge, Gorge,
Gorge of the Gung-ho,
Lives a life that's care-free.
(Ahhhhhhhh)
Watch out for that debri.
When he gets in a scrape,
he makes his escape
with the help of his friend,
a lerk named Lerk.
Then away he'll schlep
on his Onos Shep
While Fade and Skulk
Stay in step.
Well....Gorge, Gorge
Gorge of the Gung-ho,
Friend to you and me.
Watch out for that debri."
---Ok I know it's bad, really bad, but gimme a break :D
Spider Gorge, spider gorge. Does whatever a spider gorge does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spins a web! Any size. Catches 'rines just like flies,
Look out! Here comes the Spider Gorge.
Is it weird? Listen bud. He's got some xenoformic blood!
Can he slide, on his tum? Take a look: there's his bum.
Hey there! There goes the Spider Gorge.
In the chill of space, at the scene of the fight,
Like a streak of light(not!), he arrives, just in time!
Spider Gorge! Spider Gorge! Friendly Spacestation Spider Gorge!
Kills and thanks, he's ignored! Building is his only reward, TO HIIIIM!
Life is a great big jive up,
Wherever there's a Hive up,
You'll find the Spider Gorge!!!
Well none really for the marines, since they have their JPs but off topic for the Gorge it's much more versatile for example to escape harm or get into vents without having to de-evolve to skulk again. Web slinging from glands in mouth.
Lol I can just imagine the reel-in animation for the gorge keeping in spirit with the belly slide video. He launches the web strand and then he starts chomping at the web. If he's hanging vertically he'll chomp away with his fatty body and limbs hanging in the laziest position possible and just chomping his way up the web strand. Picture that in your mind and just bask in the comical relief of it.
Never mind I couldn't resist making a mockup animated gif of a gorge reeling himself in on his web:
<img src="http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9353/gorgewebreelin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think the idea is a standard-issue piece of equipment for marines to traverse terrain which is not exactly a completely empty hallway, i.e. getting over blocked areas which permits map makers some freedom in what they can make.
No one asks a com for jetpack to enter a vent (except in rare occasions where a relocate is involved)... The purpose of the JP is to fly around high over the onoses and to traverse terrain quickly when a phase gate isn't up. The grappling hook IS for entering vents and climbing up surfaces. I can imagine it would also have tactical uses for example, you can't hover in the sky with a JP for long until you run out of fuel, so even a jetpacker could make use of the grapple to secure his position high, where only a never ending barrage of paper fades, gorge spit, lork gas+spikes can reach... BUT he can be more of a ninja if he hangs up high while his JP recharges :P
It even gives the HEAVY some bit of added mobility (imagines an elite ninja squad of heavies firing off their grapples so they can rise to the ceiling over a hive to knife, er axe :P), or we can just let the heavy wear a jetpack, or let the heavy blink like a fade xD
What I think would make grappling hooks ever worth putting into the game is if marines could tangle each other and screw themselves over like that and end up being disabled easy alien kills. After all, ropes can't just pass through each other and maintain tension, and aliens can bite through metal anyways so they'll be fine.
That is an interesting point. What if we just made it so marines could run in a crouched position, and that the vent is big enough to permit this, like that scene in the movie Aliens. In fact it would have to be because the NS2 skulks are gigantic to begin with.
Also in NS1, didn't the jetpackers feet stick through the floor of the vent?