IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1772373:date=May 26 2010, 02:13 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ May 26 2010, 02:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772373"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More realistic to make the user reload instead :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first thing I ever agreed with wolf.
Adds extra bit of intensity having to be wary of your reloads.
Get caught up in a fight and *click click click* ffffffffff
I'd be disappointed if the game was reloading for me. What next, want a scooter to bring you to the next res node?
This is the future, if the suit didnt detect 0 ammo and initiate a reload shedule, then what barbarians would we be?
more serious game-play wise tho. I prefer auto reloads as that is less annoying, and lets face it, the only time you will need it is during a "long-lasting" fire fight like shooting an onos trough a long hallway. Atleast I always reload when I got time to.
I would love the TF2 autoreload and shoot to cancel reload. Otherwise we'll just have to script into the game a whole bunch of autoswitch/reload stuff to get it done for us anyways.
I can see how some might favor other methods, such as no auto-reload, or auto-switch to backup (I believe Wolfenstein ET did something like this), but at the end of the day let the player choose to turn on non-auto-reload.
and by that suggestion this thread will propably just like the "invert mouse" become several pages of people (such as rampage?) saying such an option cost to much.
Meh. You should autoreload when you're gone through the magazine, but make it optional to switch to another firearm (manually).
anyway, how will the reload work? actual magazines (bullets left are discarded) or magical container (i.e. two magazines, the one not in use will be reloaded, bullets left in mag are not discarded).
<!--quoteo(post=1772695:date=May 28 2010, 04:52 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 28 2010, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772695"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We could just have an option. Although auto reloading doesn't really fit in games that were initially scary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I typically only see a no auto-reload feature on horror stuff or games where you can't swap weapons while reloading.
Another subtle one might be if magazine style reload made you drop your reloading magazine if you interrupt it.... seems kinda too detailed for most gamers to think about.
<!--quoteo(post=1772808:date=May 29 2010, 03:04 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ May 29 2010, 03:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you must have cancel reloading, do it L4D style with the magazine dropping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does? We drop the reloading ammo if we weapon swap (i.e. weapon switch while reloading makes you lose ammo)? Hm, I have to check this....
<!--quoteo(post=1772708:date=May 29 2010, 12:27 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ May 29 2010, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772708"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another subtle one might be if magazine style reload made you drop your reloading magazine if you interrupt it.... seems kinda too detailed for most gamers to think about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it might be cool to have two phases in reloading a gun. In the first phase you'd remove the old mag and in the second you'd put the new one in.
As a result you couldn't simply reload a HMG at 100 bullets and expect it to be ready to fire those 100 after a quick cancellation switch. Then again you could remove the old empty mag, pistol whip a skulk and then proceed to finish the reloading without having to start all over again.
I guess at best it could reward situational awarness a bit.
I kind of like this idea, although I think in a game like NS2, it would just be annoying - where as in a scary/horror type of game it might be a little more accepted. I think it would have its benefits though. I hate it when games ignore the reloading you have done, say with a Grenade Launcher where its shell by shell reloading) and make you start over again if you cancel the reloading and switch back.
On another note, what kind of auto-reloading are we talking about here? I don't remember what game I played but whenever the clip wasn't full, it would automatically reload (was it Borderland?). This was acceptable for whatever game I was playing, but I would hate it for NS2. If we're really just talking about auto-reloading when your clip is empty, then I hate it even more. I absolutely love tricking other players because they hear the empty clip sound, thinking that I'm out of ammo and unprepared. When the come around the corner I actually have another fully loaded gun in hand (or melee weapon) and I proceed to raise a little hell.
I think it should remain out of NS2 - but I think the HUD should yell and scream at the player when their ammo is low/non-existent (and not the way BC2 does on the XBOX, with the giant RELOAD button in the middle of the HUD...)
Yeah, Borderlands if it detects the fight is over and you hit the Use key will auto-reload even if the clip isn't totally empty (i.e. while picking up loots).
I think the primary/original discussion is on a completely empty clip. There are some games where when you hit the point of no bullets won't just start a reload animation when you push the fire button again. It's nearly unanimous that NS2 should include this feature.
The rest of the discussion is on various reloading schemes. Should we drop the bullets still in the magazine if it isn't empty when you reload (Magazine reloading)? Should weapon swapping cancel the reload (Weapon swap canceling)? What about per-bullet reloads, like a shotgun, can we press fire to stop at a partial reload and commence shooting again (Weapon fire canceling)? You two have just introduced Automatic out-of-battle reloads, and really it sounds pretty cool. I'm just unsure how the code knows when to automatically reload when effectively "out-of-battle" and that might be a sticky point.
Obviously I should screw around more in TF2 and see this in action.
Auto reload is good, on semi-automatic guns it should be when you press fire and bullets is at 0, on automatic weapons it should be as soon as it hits 0. You should still be able to start a reload manually though.
Abort a reload by switching a gun should be allowed, but the next time you want to use the gun you have to reload from the beginning. Not something like, mag is out of gun, switch to pistol, fire, switch to empty weapon, insert mag, fire, switch to meele.
Punting with your gun (if it gets added) while reloading should not really abort the reload, but do like left 4 dead does. I am not exactly sure as to how they do, except that it seems to not force you to restart reload from beginning, but still take longer time. I might be wrong tho. What I do know is that I like it.
Stuff like shotguns should be able to reload and abort by fire, like css or hl2 (or pretty much any fps with a sg).
When you reload you usually (there is exceptions like shottys) reload with magazines, but the bullets left in old magazine doesnt get discarded, but added to your bullet pool.
For those saying stuff aint realistic, all of those are actually realistic stuff, even auto-reload and not carrying half-empty (not half-full, you are fighting aliens remember?) magazines around (and instead have a bullet pool) is.
<!--quoteo(post=1772399:date=May 26 2010, 10:18 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ May 26 2010, 10:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the future, if the suit didnt detect 0 ammo and initiate a reload shedule, then what barbarians would we be?
more serious game-play wise tho. I prefer auto reloads as that is less annoying, and lets face it, the only time you will need it is during a "long-lasting" fire fight like shooting an onos trough a long hallway. Atleast I always reload when I got time to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And bullet pools could be explained by 2 magazines, where 1 always is in gun, the other is placed in suit and get refilled, so when you have to reload you just swap them.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1772934:date=May 31 2010, 01:00 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ May 31 2010, 01:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772934"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the primary/original discussion is on a completely empty clip. There are some games where when you hit the point of no bullets won't just start a reload animation when you push the fire button again. It's nearly unanimous that NS2 should include this feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it isn't as me and others disagree on this "feature." And if it worked like that why can't you just press Reload like every other good game.
It would ruin the atmosphere if your guns can never be empty. And it never goes click click.
if you've just dumped your whole mag it usually means you're in a pretty tight situation and whether or not you auto reload is going to help much at all. i usually hit reload before i reach 0 anyway, a habit i picked up playing goldeneye
<!--quoteo(post=1772949:date=May 31 2010, 12:36 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ May 31 2010, 12:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Punting with your gun (if it gets added) while reloading should not really abort the reload, but do like left 4 dead does. I am not exactly sure as to how they do, except that it seems to not force you to restart reload from beginning, but still take longer time. I might be wrong tho. What I do know is that I like it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It felt like the reloading still goes through, just maybe takes a little longer, while you're meleeing in L4D.
<!--quoteo(post=1772970:date=May 31 2010, 05:23 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 31 2010, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772970"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No it isn't as me and others disagree on this "feature." And if it worked like that why can't you just press Reload like every other good game.
It would ruin the atmosphere if your guns can never be empty. And it never goes click click.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, usually I reload on a partial clip in NS1 and other game so I have a full clip for the next engagement. That involves a manual reload button press.
Weapons can still be empty, it just would require you run out of your clip *and* have no spare ammo to reload with. And this has happened on quite a few occasions on every game I play. Still scares the crap out of me.
As I've already stated, the auto-reload on an empty magazine should be a toggleable setting for the user.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You two have just introduced Automatic out-of-battle reloads, and really it sounds pretty cool. I'm just unsure how the code knows when to automatically reload when effectively "out-of-battle" and that might be a sticky point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It happens allways when you stop firing. And you can start shooting even when the reloading isnt completed as long there is ammo left in the current clip.
Join Date: 2010-05-25 Member: 71859Members
Comments
Yeah, that seems to be a mistake in the Engine Test. If it's not official, we already figured out how to add ti back in with LUA.
The first thing I ever agreed with wolf.
Adds extra bit of intensity having to be wary of your reloads.
Get caught up in a fight and *click click click* ffffffffff
I'd be disappointed if the game was reloading for me. What next, want a scooter to bring you to the next res node?
more serious game-play wise tho. I prefer auto reloads as that is less annoying, and lets face it, the only time you will need it is during a "long-lasting" fire fight like shooting an onos trough a long hallway. Atleast I always reload when I got time to.
-Auto-reload
-Fire cancel reload (on multiple shell stuff)
-Weapon switch cancels reload
I can see how some might favor other methods, such as no auto-reload, or auto-switch to backup (I believe Wolfenstein ET did something like this), but at the end of the day let the player choose to turn on non-auto-reload.
anyway, how will the reload work? actual magazines (bullets left are discarded) or magical container (i.e. two magazines, the one not in use will be reloaded, bullets left in mag are not discarded).
However, there are several games that are magazine style, typically the more tactical shooters, and I don't mind either.
Yeah, I typically only see a no auto-reload feature on horror stuff or games where you can't swap weapons while reloading.
Another subtle one might be if magazine style reload made you drop your reloading magazine if you interrupt it.... seems kinda too detailed for most gamers to think about.
But I prefer no cancel reloading, and no auto-reload when the magazine goes click-click-click.
Makes switching to the Pistol or the Switch-Axe something that the Players might actually do.
It would actually be the one good thing for CS to be updated with when you think about it, and removing Bunny Hopping.
It does? We drop the reloading ammo if we weapon swap (i.e. weapon switch while reloading makes you lose ammo)? Hm, I have to check this....
I think it might be cool to have two phases in reloading a gun. In the first phase you'd remove the old mag and in the second you'd put the new one in.
As a result you couldn't simply reload a HMG at 100 bullets and expect it to be ready to fire those 100 after a quick cancellation switch. Then again you could remove the old empty mag, pistol whip a skulk and then proceed to finish the reloading without having to start all over again.
I guess at best it could reward situational awarness a bit.
I kind of like this idea, although I think in a game like NS2, it would just be annoying - where as in a scary/horror type of game it might be a little more accepted. I think it would have its benefits though. I hate it when games ignore the reloading you have done, say with a Grenade Launcher where its shell by shell reloading) and make you start over again if you cancel the reloading and switch back.
On another note, what kind of auto-reloading are we talking about here? I don't remember what game I played but whenever the clip wasn't full, it would automatically reload (was it Borderland?). This was acceptable for whatever game I was playing, but I would hate it for NS2. If we're really just talking about auto-reloading when your clip is empty, then I hate it even more. I absolutely love tricking other players because they hear the empty clip sound, thinking that I'm out of ammo and unprepared. When the come around the corner I actually have another fully loaded gun in hand (or melee weapon) and I proceed to raise a little hell.
I think it should remain out of NS2 - but I think the HUD should yell and scream at the player when their ammo is low/non-existent (and not the way BC2 does on the XBOX, with the giant RELOAD button in the middle of the HUD...)
I think the primary/original discussion is on a completely empty clip. There are some games where when you hit the point of no bullets won't just start a reload animation when you push the fire button again. It's nearly unanimous that NS2 should include this feature.
The rest of the discussion is on various reloading schemes. Should we drop the bullets still in the magazine if it isn't empty when you reload (Magazine reloading)? Should weapon swapping cancel the reload (Weapon swap canceling)? What about per-bullet reloads, like a shotgun, can we press fire to stop at a partial reload and commence shooting again (Weapon fire canceling)? You two have just introduced Automatic out-of-battle reloads, and really it sounds pretty cool. I'm just unsure how the code knows when to automatically reload when effectively "out-of-battle" and that might be a sticky point.
Obviously I should screw around more in TF2 and see this in action.
Auto reload is good, on semi-automatic guns it should be when you press fire and bullets is at 0, on automatic weapons it should be as soon as it hits 0.
You should still be able to start a reload manually though.
Abort a reload by switching a gun should be allowed, but the next time you want to use the gun you have to reload from the beginning. Not something like, mag is out of gun, switch to pistol, fire, switch to empty weapon, insert mag, fire, switch to meele.
Punting with your gun (if it gets added) while reloading should not really abort the reload, but do like left 4 dead does. I am not exactly sure as to how they do, except that it seems to not force you to restart reload from beginning, but still take longer time. I might be wrong tho. What I do know is that I like it.
Stuff like shotguns should be able to reload and abort by fire, like css or hl2 (or pretty much any fps with a sg).
When you reload you usually (there is exceptions like shottys) reload with magazines, but the bullets left in old magazine doesnt get discarded, but added to your bullet pool.
For those saying stuff aint realistic, all of those are actually realistic stuff, even auto-reload and not carrying half-empty (not half-full, you are fighting aliens remember?) magazines around (and instead have a bullet pool) is.
<!--quoteo(post=1772399:date=May 26 2010, 10:18 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ May 26 2010, 10:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the future, if the suit didnt detect 0 ammo and initiate a reload shedule, then what barbarians would we be?
more serious game-play wise tho. I prefer auto reloads as that is less annoying, and lets face it, the only time you will need it is during a "long-lasting" fire fight like shooting an onos trough a long hallway. Atleast I always reload when I got time to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And bullet pools could be explained by 2 magazines, where 1 always is in gun, the other is placed in suit and get refilled, so when you have to reload you just swap them.
No it isn't as me and others disagree on this "feature." And if it worked like that why can't you just press Reload like every other good game.
It would ruin the atmosphere if your guns can never be empty. And it never goes click click.
It felt like the reloading still goes through, just maybe takes a little longer, while you're meleeing in L4D.
<!--quoteo(post=1772970:date=May 31 2010, 05:23 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 31 2010, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1772970"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No it isn't as me and others disagree on this "feature." And if it worked like that why can't you just press Reload like every other good game.
It would ruin the atmosphere if your guns can never be empty. And it never goes click click.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, usually I reload on a partial clip in NS1 and other game so I have a full clip for the next engagement. That involves a manual reload button press.
Weapons can still be empty, it just would require you run out of your clip *and* have no spare ammo to reload with. And this has happened on quite a few occasions on every game I play. Still scares the crap out of me.
As I've already stated, the auto-reload on an empty magazine should be a toggleable setting for the user.
It happens allways when you stop firing. And you can start shooting even when the reloading isnt completed as long there is ammo left in the current clip.