Parallax Mapping

SgtBarlowSgtBarlow Level Designer Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22749Members, NS2 Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">Looks alright.</div>A YouTube user (Dilophodd) responded to my youtube video asking if the the Rocks use <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_mapping" target="_blank">Parallax Mapping</a>

I think it looks like a real good second alternative from normal maps to create some good deep details on stuff.
I think it would be ace if this was utilized in a sort of merger with the concept of Decels (Parallax Decels) if that was possible, I belive it is, then we can apply them to any surface in the editor to create the illusion of dents, deep cracks or chunks missing out of concrete and maybe many more unthought ideas.
That Wiki says it was used for F.E.A.R's bullet holes.

Comments

  • PipiPipi Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69550Members
    It was used in Star Fox Adventure on the gamecube a long time ago. I'm not sure why it is still not widely used today.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1770529:date=May 9 2010, 01:48 PM:name=Pipi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pipi @ May 9 2010, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770529"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was used in Star Fox Adventure on the gamecube a long time ago. I'm not sure why it is still not widely used today.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Extra texture processing.

    Also, tessellation is the new shizbang. But again, more GPU processing required....
  • ArkArk Join Date: 2009-08-15 Member: 68489Members
    Parallax does look good for somethings like rocks and rubble, but the effect breaks down when viewed from certain angles, like viewing a plane that is adjacent to the camera.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1770529:date=May 9 2010, 03:48 PM:name=Pipi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pipi @ May 9 2010, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770529"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was used in Star Fox Adventure on the gamecube a long time ago. I'm not sure why it is still not widely used today.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No way! Flipper was a fixed function GPU. It had a fixed, hardware path to do normal mapping and a couple of other neat things but there were no shaders.

    Normal mapping(then commonly refered to as either bumpmapping or dot3 bumpmapping), which is what star fox adventure used, is now ubiquitous.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Parallax mapping works best on things that are mostly flat but shouldn't be, the rock props are mostly not-flat, so it wouldn't work that well on them.
  • PstranglerPstrangler Join Date: 2003-09-25 Member: 21198Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1770784:date=May 11 2010, 11:58 AM:name=Ark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ark @ May 11 2010, 11:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Parallax does look good for somethings like rocks and rubble, but the effect breaks down when viewed from certain angles, like viewing a plane that is adjacent to the camera.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The way maps are built, it could be easy to avoid this from occurring.
  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members
    It would have to be Steep Parallax, Relief or Parallax Occlusion mapping if any.

    This guy has made an application which allows you to see the effects and benefits as well as the downsides of the different algorithms. It's the top one "Detailed Surface Viewer" on the site <a href="http://www.brunoevangelista.com/shaders.html" target="_blank">http://www.brunoevangelista.com/shaders.html</a>

    Also here is a site from two guys who work in Iron Lore entertainment (Titan Quest), they are detailing Steep Parallax mapping and have even included code for the shader at the bottom up for use by wanting developers. <a href="http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/" target="_blank">http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/</a>
  • fsfodfsfod uk Join Date: 2004-04-09 Member: 27810Members, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=1771113:date=May 14 2010, 12:39 AM:name=Cruor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cruor @ May 14 2010, 12:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1771113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also here is a site from two guys who work in Iron Lore entertainment (Titan Quest), they are detailing Steep Parallax mapping and have even included code for the shader at the bottom up for use by wanting developers. <a href="http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/" target="_blank">http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <img src="http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7097/yesthatmax.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • SgtBarlowSgtBarlow Level Designer Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22749Members, NS2 Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1771134:date=May 14 2010, 04:37 AM:name=fsfod)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fsfod @ May 14 2010, 04:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1771134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7097/yesthatmax.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    LLLOOOOLLLL :)
  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members
    edited May 2010
    Lol how did I not notice that, well I guess it's safe to say we can expect steep parallax mapping somewhere down the line then.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    Hahaha.

    Yeah, I thought it was common knowledge by now that Max worked on Titan Quest back in the day. But cool article. Love it when people release tehcnical "this is how we did stuff" to the public.
  • SgtBarlowSgtBarlow Level Designer Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22749Members, NS2 Developer
    Have you noticed how the shadows have that grimey nobbly finnish just like in NS2, This all Max's Engine he been working on for years?
  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members
    It would be awsome if they at least implemented it for the decals and bullet holes decals etc. like F.E.A.R did with their bullet holes for the heavy weaponry where it would blow off chunks of the bricks and plaster from the walls and reveal the concrete a layer behind. eg. like in the following link: <a href="http://cowboyprogramming.com/2007/01/05/parallax-mapped-bullet-holes/" target="_blank">http://cowboyprogramming.com/2007/01/05/pa...d-bullet-holes/</a>

    And we'd be able to add the same kind of worn and torn detail to our maps through parallaxed decals, adding a more refined look without any extra polygons.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Parallax maps are somewhat nicer to work with than normals, you can edit them easier, normals have to be generated each time which is a pain.

    They could be quite good on some of the wall textures, to bring out the depth on the metal plates.

    Probably still need normals as a fallback though, although you can do heightmap based bumpmaps and that would use the same map as parallax so it might be easier to use that as the fallback if you used parallax.

    For rock props though I still don't think they'd be hugely helpful, unless you can use the technique which can apply it to edges too.
  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members
    These guys are doing some pretty cool stuff with a real time relief mapping shader that could be used on curved surfaces like the rocks etc. <a href="http://fabio.policarpo.nom.br/Publications.html" target="_blank">http://fabio.policarpo.nom.br/Publications.html</a>

    Mos notably this document witch contains the shader code etc. <a href="http://fabio.policarpo.nom.br/docs/Multilayer_ReliefMapping_I3D2006.pdf" target="_blank">http://fabio.policarpo.nom.br/docs/Multila...ing_I3D2006.pdf</a>

    Now I'm getting a head ache looking at all the math and vector calculations and what not going on there, but someone like Max would surely have a look and say, that's easy peasy, that shader or something like it will definently be in NS2 at some time and point :D
  • ghost in the shellghost in the shell Join Date: 2008-09-28 Member: 65094Members
    fear also had a TON of particles, broken glass, gun flashes, ppl diving through windows, and other stuff
    deep bullet holes added to the 'over the top' action,' but i cant personally see it fitting into NS
  • brownymasterbrownymaster Join Date: 2009-07-11 Member: 68110Members
    lol interesting find on that article, and I guess that increases the chances of parallax mapping by a lot for NS2 since Max is already coded it beforehand and knows its uses.
  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1771781:date=May 20 2010, 09:19 PM:name=ghost in the shell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghost in the shell @ May 20 2010, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1771781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fear also had a TON of particles, broken glass, gun flashes, ppl diving through windows, and other stuff
    deep bullet holes added to the 'over the top' action,' but i cant personally see it fitting into NS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Still it would look pretty neat if for example the siege cannon shoots through a concrete wall to blast away at it's target, it creates a small parallax mapped impact crater in the concret. Same with the heavy marine weaponry, like grenades chipping out concrete flaskes from the floor and walls (parallaxed decals) beyond the usual scorch markes etc.

    So you combine these parallaxed decals depicting chunks of concrete missing with scorch markes and particles and spawned model pieces of concrete, and you've got yourself a damned good looking visual.
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