Strafe Jumping/Circle Jumping
celewign
Join Date: 2010-02-06 Member: 70458Members
Join Date: 2010-02-06 Member: 70458Members
I know this game isn't Quake. I'm just curious.
In the HL1 engine you could do some pretty crazy accelerations and I think momentum was pretty well conserved. I don't remember ever strafe running in CS 1.6. I assume there wasn't any strafe jumping in NS1 (back when I played I didn't know enough about gaming to try to strafe, I was pretty young). I assume there won't be any in NS2.
Any other thoughts about movements in NS2? Movement is very VERY important in this game, so it should be considered.
In the HL1 engine you could do some pretty crazy accelerations and I think momentum was pretty well conserved. I don't remember ever strafe running in CS 1.6. I assume there wasn't any strafe jumping in NS1 (back when I played I didn't know enough about gaming to try to strafe, I was pretty young). I assume there won't be any in NS2.
Any other thoughts about movements in NS2? Movement is very VERY important in this game, so it should be considered.
Comments
Absolutely no strafe jumping, no..
In the HL1 engine you could do some pretty crazy accelerations and I think momentum was pretty well conserved. I don't remember ever strafe running in CS 1.6. I assume there wasn't any strafe jumping in NS1 (back when I played I didn't know enough about gaming to try to strafe, I was pretty young). I assume there won't be any in NS2.
Any other thoughts about movements in NS2? Movement is very VERY important in this game, so it should be considered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well in low gravity, air strifing is possible in counterstrike.
It's called depth. We accept that better players can do more damage and be harder to kill, but for some reason any correlation between speed and skill is verboten?
The only problem is if the knowledge isn't widespread, the skill curve is bad, or it damages the metagame. Fortunately, it fits pretty well into NS's gameplay, so the only issues are making sure everyone at least knows what they should be trying to do.
Edit: ohh yeah... I remember now
Marines should NOT need this crap. The only reason people did this in NS1 was because they had to CONSTANTLY dodge fades and onoses... Why? because the weapons took forever to kill a single alien and you could increase your chance of survival by dodging while still shooting at that ONE ALIEN. Solution: marines move like marines in AVP3 and weapons kill as expected. I'm not against marines being able to jump, or climb over obstacles, but being able to jump in the air while strafing around the room sounds stupid, unless you have a jetpack.
Marines should NOT need this crap. The only reason people did this in NS1 was because they had to CONSTANTLY dodge fades and onoses... Why? because the weapons took forever to kill a single alien and you could increase your chance of survival by dodging while still shooting at that ONE ALIEN. Solution: marines move like marines in AVP3 and weapons kill as expected. I'm not against marines being able to jump, or climb over obstacles, but being able to jump in the air while strafing around the room sounds stupid, unless you have a jetpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt this is what you want. AVP3 is very, very slow in terms of multiplayer movement. I would like marines to move much faster than that. I've played a lot of AVP now and its fun but too slow.
Strafejumping probably doesn't belong for the marines though. Would like to see it with kharra though.
Marines should NOT need this crap. The only reason people did this in NS1 was because they had to CONSTANTLY dodge fades and onoses... Why? because the weapons took forever to kill a single alien and you could increase your chance of survival by dodging while still shooting at that ONE ALIEN. Solution: marines move like marines in AVP3 and weapons kill as expected. I'm not against marines being able to jump, or climb over obstacles, but being able to jump in the air while strafing around the room sounds stupid, unless you have a jetpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've already established that you can't kill aliens. Please understand that this is because you are bad, not because the game is broken. This is not really an insult; NS is a merciless game for new players and it requires better aim than most players have to kill aliens quickly. Just realize that if you <i>do</i> have good aim, aliens <i>will</i> go down. Try to get better instead of dragging the game down to your level.
You may have also noticed that NS is an Arcade Shooter, not a Tactical Shooter. If you don't like Arcade Shooters, don't play NS. You're basically asking for a completely different game.
NS1 was not an arcade shooter. If it was then a single marine could hose then any alien with a hmg and kill it in half a second. Instead it was a very unbalanced fps that is always kept in that unbalanced state the moment you have a weak commander, which was very often. You spent the first half hour with a lmg. If the round didn't go in your teams favor then you would be fighting a loosing battle, with more lmgs. To further complicate things, many maps were very limited of res nodes so hmgs, gls, heavies and jetpacks were consistently out of the question (you'd be lucky if you got a pack of mines, some damage/armor upgrades, and a phase gate out of the base rape). My favorite mode of play was on siege maps... plenty of res to play with... plenty of equipment... epic battles... packed servers... giant maps. The rest of the NS community (and i do mean the overwhelming majority) played CO for essentially the same experiences. I still liked the NS mode so siege maps was, and still is, in my opinion the best way to play NS (yes i really hate vanilla servers :P).
That's the only time the game feels balanced to me lol. Soon as someone has a fade then it's gg time to recycle.
Hum.. no?
Let's try this the simple way. Go download NS again, find a classic server, join <i>Aliens</i>, and see how overpowered you are.
What the... ? You're pulling our legs right ?
Please don't post ever on this forum. I am being really serious here.
Please don't post ever on this forum. I am being really serious here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What i'm just summarizing every experience I've ever had in NS1 in one block paragraph. Last night i got in a server and experienced exactly the same scenario. Nothing new to report. Maybe the problem is now fade players are so good that it really throws the game out of balance. What used to be considered a paper-fade... i.e. fade in like 4 or so minutes of round start, (with SC chamber first no less!) killed us repeatedly to the point that a onos could arrive late to finish the base rape. We had shotguns at one point, and lmg-killed a hive... but that didn't matter. That game was 4 or 5 on 5.
Please don't post ever on this forum. I am being really serious here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I theorize FocusedWolf is really just that belligerently ignorant. That or arrogantly misinformed. Or just stupid. The poster should really be banned. She's either a troll or stupid. Either way she never contributes to discussions except to unify everyone else in telling her she's wrong. Which is great if Unknown Worlds wants the community to form a common front against people who dislike Natural Selection.
Hmmm.... Do I smell a conspiracy?
I'm not sure if you're being a troll there. In case you're not, here are some explanations as to why your "ns experience" is totally irrelevant to the NS2 development
- NS has been and IS balanced for 6v6. On top of that, guess what, it's balanced when both teams are of equal level, and, may I add, the higher the level, the better the balancing is.
- Siegemaps... do I really have to mention it ?
- Flayra has EXPLICITLY said he wanted a game AS COMPETITIVE AS STARCRAFT ( I don't know if you realize it has dedicated tv channels in South Korea... ) therefore such public experience as yours is not to be taken into account.
- To better understand the metagame we are all talking about, you could start watching ensl hltv ( season 14 started just now ), preferably watch even-skilled teams ( or you're gonna go "blabla fade rape" ) ( oh by the way there are more situations of "blabla shotgun rape" than fade rape but well ... ).
Other than that, 42 !
Are there other ways to increase depth besides a glitch in the game engine?
Does it ruin the verisimilitude of the game?
"Verisimilitude is a useful word to use in describing video games. It means the quality of being like life, but the connotations are more profound than petty "realism," which has been redefined in the game review sphere as the quality of the graphics. Properly used, the word means that there seems like there is a world outside the borders of the screen, happening regardless of what the player does. It implies the existence of a fully-fleshed world, one that's more than a mere collection of polygons or tiles that might as well be sealed in Plexiglas. It allows a game to better enable the player to forget that it is, really, just a game."
<a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3485/game_design_essentials_20_.php" target="_blank">http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3485...entials_20_.php</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1755191:date=Feb 25 2010, 05:56 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 25 2010, 05:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've already established that you can't kill aliens. Please understand that this is because you are bad, not because the game is broken. This is not really an insult; NS is a merciless game for new players and it requires better aim than most players have to kill aliens quickly. Just realize that if you <i>do</i> have good aim, aliens <i>will</i> go down. Try to get better instead of dragging the game down to your level.
You may have also noticed that NS is an Arcade Shooter, not a Tactical Shooter. If you don't like Arcade Shooters, don't play NS. You're basically asking for a completely different game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it a good idea for a commercial game to crush its newbies?
Is Unknown Worlds trying to make a lot of money?
Does it ruin the verisimilitude of the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good gameplay comes before atmosphere. While you shouldn't break verisimilitude needlessly, it's acceptable to do so for a good reason, and movement is part of what made the original NS what it was. Besides, on the subject of mobility and plausibility, bunnyhopping doesn't bother me much more than using <i>jetpacks</i> in <i>vents</i>.
If you want to experience a game solely for the atmosphere (which is fine), stick with single-player or co-op.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is it a good idea for a commercial game to crush its newbies?
Is Unknown Worlds trying to make a lot of money?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that the game should be more accessible and it seems like UWE is already experimenting with ways to do that (autobite being one failed attempt). However, I'd prefer if people did by making the low end of the skill curve a bit smoother rather than cutting off the top. As an analogy; inexperienced swimmers can't use a 12-foot pool, while 3-foot pools are pretty boring for anyone whose life isn't dependent on water wings. Rather than going with one extreme or the other and alienating part of their potential customer base, most pools opt to have both deep and shallow ends.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107793&hl=" target="_blank">I've actually gone into a bit of detail on this one.</a>
Is Unknown Worlds trying to make a lot of money?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people are always going to get crushed, I think. I think NS is actually surprisingly friendly with newbies even now, the problem is guiding people to the right roles and right mindset and getting them a good start. NS fails completely at that. Even crucial features like +movement are completely unknown to most new players.
I feel I could help almost every newbie a lot if I could have a few rounds with them in ventrilo, explaining where to start learning the game and which things pay attention. Almost the same thing could be done by a few tutorials, I think.
Of course a lot of new games happily support players even if they aren't even trying to learn to understand one bit of the game or trying to do anything particularly useful. I hope NS2 doesn't have to go all the way there.
Is Unknown Worlds trying to make a lot of money?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's got a point. Look at Eve Online, it's so hard when you start and...
Wait ... what was I saying ?
Nevermind.
AKA "Where TF2 lost the path".
How about strafejumping with tutorial? I in no way mean that strafejumping is necessarily the only or the best solution to anything, but it's a good example of relatively easily executable movement method once it gets explained.
Tutorials are good, but how would you explain to a new player why turning when you're in mid-air makes you go faster? And not just turning, but arcing your trajectory by holding left(but not forward) while turning left. This is an incredibly weird concept to most people, and for good reason - frankly it makes zero sense. I don't believe that stuff like this is necessary for a video game to have competitive depth. Movement skill should come from movement abilities IMO. For example, the jetpack: using the jetpack at its best takes a lot of practice in making the best use of its fuel and momentum, and that's something that makes sense with experience without really having to be told the specifics.