Economic Harassment Idea
xmaine
Join Date: 2009-08-10 Member: 68409Members
Join Date: 2009-08-10 Member: 68409Members
In NS1, we are all well aware that RT's take out a good chunk of time to kill. The current economic system needs to be reformed in order for a more RTS oriented gameplay. Keeping the game fast pace so that new players would be able to do some damage instead of just sit around holding down the mouse button waiting for the RT to go down.
We all know that RT's in NS1 cost 15 res.
But if we have the RT cost 10 res and have a maximum of 5 that cost 1 res each totaling 15 res.
Based on the NS1 system,
Resource towers cost 10 minerals. Every 8 second intervals per 1 rt would yield one resource.
But when you construct additional addons, every 1 addon would decrease the time it would take for that 1 rt to mine resources.
For example, an rt with 5 addons would yield one resource every 3 seconds. 8-5=3. An RT with 2 addons would yield one resource every 6 seconds. 8-2=6. And so forth.
For Marines, the addons will placed by the commander for marines to build individually one by one. Construction takes only a short amount of time.
For Aliens, the addons will be dropped by gorges around the resource tower.
For marines to destroy alien addons, they must be knifed to avoid unbalanced potshots to be taken at addons. RT's can still be shot down.
For aliens to destroy marine addons, they are simply just bitten off.
The rt itself would have its same large hp but the addons would have small hp to allow for individuals to harass the opposing team's economy easier. It would be a constant battle to keep harassing economy and a constant struggle to keep rebuilding the economy. If the opposing team really wants to control that nozzle and use it for their own, then the team would have to shoot down/bite down the rt itself just like in classic NS1.
The term addon used here could be replaced by whatever name sounds fit to each race. Idk.
Drone for aliens?
Miners for marines?
We all know that RT's in NS1 cost 15 res.
But if we have the RT cost 10 res and have a maximum of 5 that cost 1 res each totaling 15 res.
Based on the NS1 system,
Resource towers cost 10 minerals. Every 8 second intervals per 1 rt would yield one resource.
But when you construct additional addons, every 1 addon would decrease the time it would take for that 1 rt to mine resources.
For example, an rt with 5 addons would yield one resource every 3 seconds. 8-5=3. An RT with 2 addons would yield one resource every 6 seconds. 8-2=6. And so forth.
For Marines, the addons will placed by the commander for marines to build individually one by one. Construction takes only a short amount of time.
For Aliens, the addons will be dropped by gorges around the resource tower.
For marines to destroy alien addons, they must be knifed to avoid unbalanced potshots to be taken at addons. RT's can still be shot down.
For aliens to destroy marine addons, they are simply just bitten off.
The rt itself would have its same large hp but the addons would have small hp to allow for individuals to harass the opposing team's economy easier. It would be a constant battle to keep harassing economy and a constant struggle to keep rebuilding the economy. If the opposing team really wants to control that nozzle and use it for their own, then the team would have to shoot down/bite down the rt itself just like in classic NS1.
The term addon used here could be replaced by whatever name sounds fit to each race. Idk.
Drone for aliens?
Miners for marines?
Comments
This adds even more overall gametime to the tasks building and destroying structures, which is considered boring by some players.
This adds even more overall gametime to the tasks building and destroying structures, which is considered boring by some players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Weld-bots building etc
Anyway, it's a good idea in general. Someone else suggested what I think is essentially the same concept only a lot easier on the devs to implement in that if you damage an RT it begins to slow down its resource income. Of course, it isn't exactly the same and a little less nuanced in that you start off with max income from that RT, and it isnt a choice. Overall xmaine's idea is superior.
I do agree though that the res game in NS is a chore, both in building and more so destroying. But I think it's just the nature of the beast when it comes to RTS.
I think some of your idea can be salvaged in that it would be nice to have a lower starting cost for RTs that can then later be upgraded in the field to produce higher benefits/yield. But this is largely a parallel to electrify.
As for ways to destroy an RT faster, I don't like them. If a single skulk could go around the map and quickly destroy RTs, then electrify would be more useless and every rt would require a turret farm. A stronger RT encourages teamwork among the aliens so that a single skulk isn't there forever. It's also a good incentive to get adrenaline.
I don't think it would be such a good idea to destroy add-ons separately. It seems a bit redundant and it would be easier to just increase the overall hp of the RT. That would also make it harder to destroy... another incentive to upgrade them.
Otherwise, it's a good idea. You aren't limited to the number of resource nozzles. This could definitely help if your team has less RTs and the enemy team hasn't upgraded theirs. I also like the idea that the efficiency of a damaged RT is lowered.
Its in Supreme Commander and provides incencitives for commander to upgrade tactically defensible nodes. There's a bit of a drawback, because it provides incencitives to sit on nodes aswell and not capture extra nodes. However it also provides incencitives for aliens not to ignore PG's and work together to take them down. Sometimes marines are on defense but bad aliens still cannot get the PG's down, meaning this kind of upgrade would give marines some benefit for holding a PG near a RT for long.
Just call it LvL X RT imo.
I do agree though that the res game in NS is a chore, both in building and more so destroying. But I think it's just the nature of the beast when it comes to RTS.
I think some of your idea can be salvaged in that it would be nice to have a lower starting cost for RTs that can then later be upgraded in the field to produce higher benefits/yield. But this is largely a parallel to electrify.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You probably don't know what an RTS is.
Thats like saying when you do a reaver drop or a 2fac fast vulture rush harassment in starcraft, theres no excuse not to stay and take out the enemy command center/nexus/hatchery.
The addon idea is like destroying peons in starcraft. Every peon destroyed slightly puts the team at an advantage.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108865&view=findpost&p=1752892" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....t&p=1752892</a>
I'm still not sure, if I like this idea for marine res towers and its effects, but for aliens it might be useful. Considering that marines have mobile sieges now and can attack node-only rooms with it, while on their way pressuring the next tech-room, I think it might be good to make alien res nodes a little stronger, but give marines the ability to "disable" them as long as they hold the area.
So marines need to put more effort into taking over a node-room, but less effort than aliens into disabling the income from a node-room.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108865&view=findpost&p=1752892" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....t&p=1752892</a>
I'm still not sure, if I like this idea for marine res towers and its effects, but for aliens it might be useful. Considering that marines have mobile sieges now and can attack node-only rooms with it, while on their way pressuring the next tech-room, I think it might be good to make alien res nodes a little stronger, but give marines the ability to "disable" them as long as they hold the area.
So marines need to put more effort into taking over a node-room, but less effort than aliens into disabling the income from a node-room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems a little complicated. The thing is that all the marines have to do is take potshots at a resource tower from afar to effectively do damage to the alien economy.
The idea that RT's have more states than simply there or not there adds depth.
-I like both the addon idea and the lvls idea maybe could be that each race get one implementation. asymetry win!
-Having a small reward for a hit an run attack would definetely be good. However it should be posible for the commanders to bring their RT back to full capacity over time without the need for marines or gorges. Like the marines need to do the initial build and then the commander does the addon upgrades (over time).
-I like the idea that an RT which is held for a long time becomes increasingly more productive and an increasinly more delicious target.
-The idea that a damage RT works slower goes hand in hand with that idea they have about the power grid failing (ligths flashing off and back on).
details need to be worked on, But I trust that if UWE works on this concept (which has been heavily discussed before) they would be able to come up with a really fun and balanced mechanic.
Thats like saying when you do a reaver drop or a 2fac fast vulture rush harassment in starcraft, theres no excuse not to stay and take out the enemy command center/nexus/hatchery.
The addon idea is like destroying peons in starcraft. Every peon destroyed slightly puts the team at an advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You probably don't know what NS is, since that's what I was referring to, not SC. To fix your broken analogy, it's about as useful as going in to 'harass' their MF addons.
In short: Having RTs reduce in efficiency with greater damage - yes. Confusing the player with having to destroy addons instead of the main structure - no.
Simple.
Works.
Simple.
Works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All marines have to do is take potshots at the RT from afar to reduce the efficiency of the alien economic system.
Sounds like a piece of cake, just as it is now. No, wait...
Aliens are more than capable of hurting marines that are stuck in one position. I can't see why that would change in NS2, especially now that they've got the alien commander to give them even more approaches.
In general I can see MG dealing 1/2 or even 1/4 damage to alien structures if there's a problem with the economy. However, I don't like rules that contradict the basic rules of the game (ie. "You can shoot buildings to hurt them") or rules that lock you to one approach to the situation (ie. "Only your knife deals damage to this kind of buildings").
Just like what they do now if they don't want to walk into the OC around the corner. Comm, drop ammo and let's spam LMGs and GLs.
and are we forgetting alien structures will most likely heal themselves as in NS1?
But this or damaged RT's giving less resources would be a great improvement over NS1.
Besides adding variety to maps it allows for a simple and viable balancing tool. Instead of having to rework a map's entire structure and layout, mappers have the option of adding or removing available addons to nodes to alter that area's strategic importance. Incentives for teams to push outwards would be maintained by placing less importance on nearby nodes but this is up to the mapper's discretion. A natural progression would be for relocations to become more viable and useful. Additionally, by making it so that a resource tower has stages of development, it reduces the stagnation of a particular area. Currently in NS, if a resource tower is a sizeable distance away, there is little reason to venture towards it unless there is intent to destroy it. What this means is that area becomes relatively static compared to other areas of the map. Multi-stage resource towers go some ways to fixing this. As a general rule, information gathering would become more important and responsive styles of play would be encouraged which is a good thing! When a particular tactic or development illicits a response, dynamic strategy is born.
It's worth noting that the addon or levelUP idea need not apply to both teams. Potentially, scouting areas far away is too much to ask of marines for example. It's also possible that if aliens are, indeed, given a similar system, they could benefit to a different extent to compensate for unforeseen consequences.
If it is decided that resource nodes should be homogenously designed then I advise that returns should be diminishing in order to maintain incentives to play aggressively rather than reduce the game to sitting on their behinds. Perhaps they should be diminishing anyway.