If I have to crouch every time I want optimal firing then I may just slit my wrists. If I have to play the entire early/mid-game knowing that I could be hitting things better if I was kitted out with HA then I might just slit my balls too. I want to be able to jump, 180, and shoot a lerk in the face repeatedly as it flies past, thank you very much.
<!--quoteo(post=1754256:date=Feb 20 2010, 11:32 AM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Feb 20 2010, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I have to crouch every time I want optimal firing then I may just slit my wrists. If I have to play the entire early/mid-game knowing that I could be hitting things better if I was kitted out with HA then I might just slit my balls too. I want to be able to jump, 180, and shoot a lerk in the face repeatedly as it flies past, thank you very much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're close enough to shoot a lerk in the face, recoil shouldn't be much of a problem :)
<!--quoteo(post=1754256:date=Feb 20 2010, 06:32 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Feb 20 2010, 06:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I have to crouch every time I want optimal firing then I may just slit my wrists. If I have to play the entire early/mid-game knowing that I could be hitting things better if I was kitted out with HA then I might just slit my balls too. I want to be able to jump, 180, and shoot a lerk in the face repeatedly as it flies past, thank you very much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> agree
<!--quoteo(post=1754412:date=Feb 21 2010, 05:25 AM:name=ghost in the shell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghost in the shell @ Feb 21 2010, 05:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spray and pray or BOOM HEAD SHOT what is this cs?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you talking about gun recoil characteristics of CS or the head shot hit box?
You don't know what Spray-and-Pray means. You have to aim to kill things all the time in NS, because the guns do not have enough spread to get religious about.
<!--quoteo(post=1754556:date=Feb 21 2010, 10:18 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 21 2010, 10:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754556"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have to aim to kill things...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> My suggestion is true to this statement. The spread may be more with the hmg for smaller marines, but we're not talking luck shots.
Also, if implemented, this might be a good excuse to make a recoil control upgrade of some sort.
<!--quoteo(post=1754586:date=Feb 22 2010, 10:11 AM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Feb 22 2010, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My suggestion is true to this statement. The spread may be more with the hmg for smaller marines, but we're not talking luck shots.
Also, if implemented, this might be a good excuse to make a recoil control upgrade of some sort.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't seem to realize that there are perfectly legitimate forms of aim and general weapon mechanics that don't involve recoil. None are inherently superior, but standing still and crouching to control recoil would not be appropriate at all for a game like NS. This is doubly true because those sorts of games also feature headshots, giving you the ability to actually kill your opponent in the few accurate shots you have. Recoil without fast kills would gimp the hell out of Marines, and <i>for the love of god no I am not suggesting that we add headshots next.</i> NS isn't that kind of game.
<!--quoteo(post=1754639:date=Feb 22 2010, 12:59 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 22 2010, 12:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754639"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...but standing still and crouching to control recoil would not be appropriate at all for a game like NS...Recoil without fast kills would gimp the hell out of Marines...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please don't take my suggestions out of context. I'm not suggesting that you can't hit anything without crouching. I was very specific with a CS analogy. I'm suggesting that we reward marines who risk sitting still with less recoil (higher accuracy). I'm also suggesting that we have a difference in recoil between heavies and non-heavies (mainly with the hmg) as an incentive to go heavy.
<!--quoteo(post=1753718:date=Feb 17 2010, 04:04 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Feb 17 2010, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753718"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lets start with this... Why guns like that which exist today? Because the devs thought that energy weapons (were 0% recoil would be expected) is not what they like. They want "gritty". Actually i think the REAL REASON NS2 HAS GUNS is to make it easier for people to get involved with the game... It's something they know how to use... it's not some weapon that fires from mixing chemicals and applying an electrical charge... you slap in a new magazine and you kill the enemy as fast as possible. Another reason is the movie Aliens (which explains the flamethrower).
Back on the topic of "gritty". Apparently everyone has there own idea of what "gritty" means. In keeping with the devs decision that marines have weapons like grenade launchers, rifles, flamethrowers a bazillion years from now... my idea of "gritty" is:
1. recoil
2. aiming not spraying
3. aimpoints
4. deadly weaponry where burst fire kills
And while i agree that #1 and #3 may not exist, atleast not as we know them today... Well this is a game. The devs want it to be like counterstrike (buying guns and arcadey)... I hate CS so i say make it more like Americas Army (slower where bullets are very deadly). I want NS2 to be more about the atmosphere and less about taking orders from 3 different commanders... zzz NS2 is going to be a zoo.
Ya i agree on the MW2 ###### that people keep slinging. I'm very sorry but their's no way in hell that NS2 will be more popular then MW2... sorry it ain't going to happen.
And Every time someone comes along with the "That will never work because NS1 didn't' have it"... well we do our best to beat them down with a 2x4 but it can get really messy sometimes. xD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
can we please get him banned? he just outright said he wants ns2 to be like americas army... plz ban him he is a horrible troll.
<b>To clarify</b> in Counter strike the AK47 had hard to control recoil The first bullet always shot strait and all subsequent bullets ended up about a mile off so people either aimed for the head to kill in that few bullets or sprayed the whole enemy with full auto
<!--quoteo(post=1754716:date=Feb 22 2010, 11:44 PM:name=celewign)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (celewign @ Feb 22 2010, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can we please get him banned? he just outright said he wants ns2 to be like americas army... plz ban him he is a horrible troll.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And thus why he's still ignored for me....
Back to topic on hand, I agree that the biggest issues are the 1-3. Jetpacks having "true" physics just destroys life and makes it impossible to control. Similar issue with push-back while jumping. Maaaaby giving Exos better (lower) spread could fly, but I'm not sure why we want this element.
I've yet to see a compelling reason except for "realism" to implement these ideas.
Also, crouching in NS1 was great to open up firing lines and letting your buddies shoot over you. Also, vent crawling.
<!--quoteo(post=1754981:date=Feb 24 2010, 10:29 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 24 2010, 10:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754981"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, crouching in NS1 was great to open up firing lines and letting your buddies shoot over you. Also, vent crawling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know how intentional it was, but crouching kinda forced fade to crouch against you, taking away some dodging ability. Also, I feel that going all in pistol whip vs skulks was often easier while crouching. I guess crouching gives you far better angle for shooting a skulk running right on your feet.
In general I'm a berserking overly aggressive and mobile player in every game I end up playing. Even with such mindset I found myself crouching here and there in NS fights.
<!--quoteo(post=1754979:date=Feb 24 2010, 04:23 PM:name=ghost in the shell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghost in the shell @ Feb 24 2010, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>To clarify</b> in Counter strike the AK47 had hard to control recoil The first bullet always shot strait and all subsequent bullets ended up about a mile off so people either aimed for the head to kill in that few bullets or sprayed the whole enemy with full auto<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Remember that this was an <i>analogy</i>. I said that if heavies had mp5's, then normal marines had AK47's. We know that the HMG in NS1 had less recoil than the MP5 (or any gun in CS). So, normal marine recoil might be close to Counter Strike's MP5. That's not much recoil... just a difference.
<!--quoteo(post=1755014:date=Feb 24 2010, 10:00 PM:name=celewign)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (celewign @ Feb 24 2010, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, it seems like crouching should be more a tactical type decision and not forced... making spread worse when standing forces crouch in a way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The spread isn't worse when you stand. It's less when you crouch. I know that's a remedial statement, but I'm talking about an improvement in control when crouching because standing is what you are doing most of the time.
Comments
If you're close enough to shoot a lerk in the face, recoil shouldn't be much of a problem :)
agree
or
BOOM HEAD SHOT
what is this cs?
or
BOOM HEAD SHOT
what is this cs?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you talking about gun recoil characteristics of CS or the head shot hit box?
Crouched: Deadeye
Crouched: Deadeye<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In NS1, it's:
Standing: Spray & Pray
Crouched: Spray & Pray
Standing: Spray & Pray
Crouched: Spray & Pray<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No
Standing: Spray & Pray
Crouched: Spray & Pray<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't know what Spray-and-Pray means. You have to aim to kill things all the time in NS, because the guns do not have enough spread to get religious about.
My suggestion is true to this statement. The spread may be more with the hmg for smaller marines, but we're not talking luck shots.
Also, if implemented, this might be a good excuse to make a recoil control upgrade of some sort.
Also, if implemented, this might be a good excuse to make a recoil control upgrade of some sort.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't seem to realize that there are perfectly legitimate forms of aim and general weapon mechanics that don't involve recoil. None are inherently superior, but standing still and crouching to control recoil would not be appropriate at all for a game like NS. This is doubly true because those sorts of games also feature headshots, giving you the ability to actually kill your opponent in the few accurate shots you have. Recoil without fast kills would gimp the hell out of Marines, and <i>for the love of god no I am not suggesting that we add headshots next.</i> NS isn't that kind of game.
Please don't take my suggestions out of context. I'm not suggesting that you can't hit anything without crouching. I was very specific with a CS analogy. I'm suggesting that we reward marines who risk sitting still with less recoil (higher accuracy). I'm also suggesting that we have a difference in recoil between heavies and non-heavies (mainly with the hmg) as an incentive to go heavy.
Back on the topic of "gritty". Apparently everyone has there own idea of what "gritty" means. In keeping with the devs decision that marines have weapons like grenade launchers, rifles, flamethrowers a bazillion years from now... my idea of "gritty" is:
1. recoil
2. aiming not spraying
3. aimpoints
4. deadly weaponry where burst fire kills
And while i agree that #1 and #3 may not exist, atleast not as we know them today... Well this is a game. The devs want it to be like counterstrike (buying guns and arcadey)... I hate CS so i say make it more like Americas Army (slower where bullets are very deadly). I want NS2 to be more about the atmosphere and less about taking orders from 3 different commanders... zzz NS2 is going to be a zoo.
Ya i agree on the MW2 ###### that people keep slinging. I'm very sorry but their's no way in hell that NS2 will be more popular then MW2... sorry it ain't going to happen.
And Every time someone comes along with the "That will never work because NS1 didn't' have it"... well we do our best to beat them down with a 2x4 but it can get really messy sometimes. xD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
can we please get him banned? he just outright said he wants ns2 to be like americas army... plz ban him he is a horrible troll.
in Counter strike the AK47 had hard to control recoil
The first bullet always shot strait and all subsequent bullets ended up about a mile off
so people either aimed for the head to kill in that few bullets or sprayed the whole enemy with full auto
And thus why he's still ignored for me....
Back to topic on hand, I agree that the biggest issues are the 1-3. Jetpacks having "true" physics just destroys life and makes it impossible to control. Similar issue with push-back while jumping. Maaaaby giving Exos better (lower) spread could fly, but I'm not sure why we want this element.
I've yet to see a compelling reason except for "realism" to implement these ideas.
Also, crouching in NS1 was great to open up firing lines and letting your buddies shoot over you. Also, vent crawling.
I don't know how intentional it was, but crouching kinda forced fade to crouch against you, taking away some dodging ability. Also, I feel that going all in pistol whip vs skulks was often easier while crouching. I guess crouching gives you far better angle for shooting a skulk running right on your feet.
In general I'm a berserking overly aggressive and mobile player in every game I end up playing. Even with such mindset I found myself crouching here and there in NS fights.
I would prefer this not be done.
in Counter strike the AK47 had hard to control recoil
The first bullet always shot strait and all subsequent bullets ended up about a mile off
so people either aimed for the head to kill in that few bullets or sprayed the whole enemy with full auto<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember that this was an <i>analogy</i>. I said that if heavies had mp5's, then normal marines had AK47's. We know that the HMG in NS1 had less recoil than the MP5 (or any gun in CS). So, normal marine recoil might be close to Counter Strike's MP5. That's not much recoil... just a difference.
<!--quoteo(post=1755014:date=Feb 24 2010, 10:00 PM:name=celewign)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (celewign @ Feb 24 2010, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, it seems like crouching should be more a tactical type decision and not forced... making spread worse when standing forces crouch in a way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The spread isn't worse when you stand. It's less when you crouch. I know that's a remedial statement, but I'm talking about an improvement in control when crouching because standing is what you are doing most of the time.