I would love to see an alpha, so I could test out my maps and test pacing along with peaks and valleys in my levels. I hope that UWE gets finished soon so the community can really help push this game to even greater heights :D
All in all I really hope they give us some specifics soon, will help very much when making levels and models
<!--quoteo(post=1750267:date=Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would settle for a weapon-less avatar to wander around the custom levels.
Also, we have neither date nor guarantee of Alpha release yet, so don't get too excited. Learn meditation or cooking or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, I would be happy with a stickfigure that could wander through ingame and nothing more. That would be a good start to alpha. I suspect they'll actually have a lot more, but don't care to speculate.
Thanks to the few that posted on topic... Be dammed all how went of on what an Alpha is "supposed" to be. NS2's Alpha is whatever UWE wants it to be. And in the twitter they said that the want to release "something small, polished and playable.". That's your starting point of speculation. Not some wiki link.
<!--quoteo(post=1750267:date=Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... ...we have neither date nor guarantee of Alpha release yet, so don't get too excited...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No date. But there's been a "guarantee" of alpha since the pre-orders became available. Add to that the latest tweet.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Man, we're cranking on the alpha! Our next goal is to release something small, polished and playable. It's starting to come together! #fb<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM:name=)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( @ Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Learn meditation or cooking or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think my OP showed any signs of over excitement. I'm cool with waiting and have a very full days of work, life, and friends everyday. Just that the Twitter was exciting and I wanted to discuss our expectations based of the Twitter. Too bad the whole thing got derailed.
EDIT: I recognize it was my bad for not actually posting the tweet on the OP.
It would be enough right now if they would release a stable enough internal build so that mappers could wander through their maps (even if we were just ghosting around them). But FB has told us that they're close to an alpha, so I guess we can all just wait and see what's there and what's missing.
Everyone who says, "I'd be satisfied to just be able to walk around my own maps," needs to consider the fact that alphas and betas are released for a reason. If they just let you walk around in your maps, that'd be nice, but it wouldn't help them, as a company, develop their product at all.
An alpha gives at least SOMETHING for their audience to test enough to give them feedback. For such a small company, in-house testing would be inefficient, as the time it takes for 10 people to try to find a bug is significantly higher than the time it would take the thousands who have bought the game to find it. With thousands of people playing the game, those 10 people can spend their time fixing the bug(s), rather than playing the game to find them.
I'm not going to say what I think will or won't be included, but people need to consider this point when deciding what to hope for themselves. Just walking around your own maps wouldn't be enough to test anything, and including all features but having them noticeably incomplete would cause so many complaints and bug reports about so many various things that it would be nothing but chaotic, and wouldn't help the development process at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1750400:date=Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks to the few that posted on topic... Be dammed all how went of on what an Alpha is "supposed" to be. NS2's Alpha is whatever UWE wants it to be. And in the twitter they said that the want to release "something small, polished and playable.". That's your starting point of speculation. Not some wiki link.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good point. In our case, Beta also doesn't seem to conform to classic definitions.
<!--quoteo(post=1750400:date=Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No date. But there's been a "guarantee" of alpha since the pre-orders became available. Add to that the latest tweet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Correct. I meant "guarantee" as in "released in a few weeks" which, in hindsight, makes zero sense. Doh.
<!--quoteo(post=1750400:date=Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think my OP showed any signs of over excitement. I'm cool with waiting and have a very full days of work, life, and friends everyday.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No need to act cool, we're all nerds here. :p <!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->Also that wasn't addressed at you personally.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1750437:date=Feb 3 2010, 06:16 AM:name=BigText)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigText @ Feb 3 2010, 06:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everyone who says, "I'd be satisfied to just be able to walk around my own maps," needs to consider the fact that alphas and betas are released for a reason. If they just let you walk around in your maps, that'd be nice, but it wouldn't help them, as a company, develop their product at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why not? The Rifle Range mod is pretty much that, and it's a big part of internal testing. "Just walking around" isn't exactly a small thing to accomplish in itself. I think UW said before that they plan to add features on per-unit basis, as soon as they're relatively ready for public consumption. I believe they're doing this with the Editor right now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Unknown Worlds+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unknown Worlds)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The division of labor for the coding has always been very straightforward – Charlie writes the Natural Selection 2 code and I write the engine/tools code. A few months ago, Kurt Miller, a great programmer and a good friend of mine, joined Unknown Worlds to work on the engine and tools code as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Latest blog post provides another snippet of info that undermines those doomsayers (not everyone who said the words, just those who tried to tranquilise the burning hope in our proud hearts. :P); There was always someone working from day 1ish on the actual game.
Therefore -
<div align='center'>Progress on Engine + Map Editor + Patches + Unseen sound and some netcode ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- = Gameplay 2 </div>
Or something like that. You lot figure out the exact statistics. :P
BadMouthIt ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titlJoin Date: 2004-05-21Member: 28815Members
I'm expecting a playable version of the game with some of the important features in it. It doesn't have to have all the features and neither does it need to have all the sprites/animations done. One map is enough for an alpha.
I just have a feeling that the devs would released a rather "polished" alpha. I think the main thing for the devs is to check to see if the things are working in the game and the gameplay mechanics of NS2. Balancing would also be a big deal for a game with asymmetrical side and although and alpha probably won't be enough to do balancing, it would give the devs some idea of where they should be heading.
And I don't expect it anytime soon. Soon meaning weeks.
<!--quoteo(post=1750437:date=Feb 3 2010, 03:16 AM:name=BigText)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigText @ Feb 3 2010, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everyone who says, "I'd be satisfied to just be able to walk around my own maps," needs to consider the fact that alphas and betas are released for a reason. If they just let you walk around in your maps, that'd be nice, but it wouldn't help them, as a company, develop their product at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier, well said. Unfortunately it doesn't seem as if this is what we're getting.
<!--quoteo(post=1750501:date=Feb 3 2010, 01:38 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Feb 3 2010, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier, well said. Unfortunately it doesn't seem as if this is what we're getting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
According to the doomsayers or according to the few lines of text that only hint at the truth?
Less straight up facts and clear diagrams than a general election. :/
The Alpha isn't about helping them as a company. Its about getting the initial product out to the <b>Alpha testers</b> so, they can start the initial tests. In this case, I think it might be more about giving the Spark toolset another upgrade, giving the ability test out how players will move through a level and how well they actually fit. If we're lucky, netcode might be good enough for online play and we might just have a barely playable game on our hands.
I don't think any of you should be expecting anything anywhere near feature complete, regardless of whether or not your definition of "alpha" includes feature complete and playable. Keep in mind that I believe they are by-passing the closed alpha phase (this is pretty much a public alpha). Never have I seen an inital Alpha release have anything near the final state of the game. By the end of the alpha, we'll have most, if not all the gameplay mechanics built and further testing and tweaking will continue on into the beta phase, but intially, the Alpha is likely going to be pretty boring.
<!--quoteo(post=1750508:date=Feb 3 2010, 02:15 PM:name=MikeyTWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeyTWolf @ Feb 3 2010, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750508"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->According to the doomsayers or according to the few lines of text that only hint at the truth?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
According to what Comprox posted earlier in this thread, which <b>seemed </b>to be a direct response to those of us who think an Alpha is a milestone release meant to test core game mechanics.
<!--quoteo(post=1750545:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Alpha isn't about helping them as a company.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The extent to which this sentence is completely wrong is nothing short of <i>staggering</i>.
<!--quoteo(post=1750545:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its about getting the initial product out to the <b>Alpha testers</b> so, they can start the initial tests.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, like playing the basics of the game so they can find bugs, glitches, etc. so UWE can just fix them instead of working to find them themselves. This strategy works well for such a small company. This helps their product, which helps them as a company.
<!--quoteo(post=1750545:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In this case, I think it might be more about giving the Spark toolset another upgrade, giving the ability test out how players will move through a level and how well they actually fit. If we're lucky, netcode might be good enough for online play and we might just have a barely playable game on our hands.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Where are you coming up with these ideas? If UWE was releasing a Spark patch, they would call it such. My programming skills are next to nothing, but I'm fairly confident that walking around a level isn't enough to really "test" on, unless it came with netcode and they were trying to do something wacky with player collision.
<!--quoteo(post=1750545:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think any of you should be expecting anything anywhere near feature complete, regardless of whether or not your definition of "alpha" includes feature complete and playable. Keep in mind that I believe they are by-passing the closed alpha phase (this is pretty much a public alpha). Never have I seen an inital Alpha release have anything near the final state of the game. By the end of the alpha, we'll have most, if not all the gameplay mechanics built and further testing and tweaking will continue on into the beta phase, but intially, the Alpha is likely going to be pretty boring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funnily enough, what you said here is <i>completely right</i>, though I hope the last 10 works of your paragraph turn out false.
I dont expect any features in the Alpha, not because i think they wont be able to do it but cause its simply the Alpha and its not supposed to have gameplay features or something playable - thats for the early betas, All i want and expect is ASAP to have the platform for the purpose of testing out performance outside the editor to see if scenes do actually have too much going on for the renderer as the performance in the editor does not reflect upon the actual game same as window mode is slower than full screen. To simply walk round, check collisions on marine, skulk and effects of room sizes corridoor hights on the Lerk and onous. To just walk around as all the classes with no weapons is all I need. just need Walk, Crouch and Jump so alpha maps can be tested and debugged as much as posible before a playable closed beta.
<!--quoteo(post=1750559:date=Feb 3 2010, 08:15 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Feb 3 2010, 08:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->its simply the Alpha and its not supposed to have gameplay features or something playable<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1750284:date=Feb 2 2010, 09:11 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 2 2010, 09:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750284"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mean incomplete as in "whoops, there's just one team and one and a half guns" kind of incomplete. Granted I also have no idea how can a game play "like the final" with all the tech trees missing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, I have to agree with zex on this one. An alpha may not be feature-polished, but it's design-complete. All the planned features are outlined and in some form present. It's playable and testable, though certainly not polished. There may be placeholder graphics, incomplete animations, vendor-specific incompatibilities, or even incomplete tech trees and such (so long as the concept of a tech tree and a few tiers are in-place and expandable), etc., but to at least some testable subset, the gameplay is implemented.
What you're defining as alpha is an indefinite block of "sub-alpha." There's no point in creating a milestone arbitrarily at some point during which the game is simply a rendering + physics engine with a few things you can toy with. If that's your definition of an alpha, I'll go fire up OpenGL and make an "alpha" in an hour. An alpha is a milestone because it's the outlined implementation of gameplay, not just the "idea" of gameplay or a sandbox wherein gameplay might take place.
Furthermore, given your definition of an alpha, the videos UWE has already released constitute an alpha. The tiny little lua fire-range mod has a character, physics, lighting, a gun, etc. If that's an alpha, why aren't we breaking out the champagne? If they released that to the public, would you say it qualifies as an acceptable definition of an alpha?
It'd have to be more complex than collision detection and height comparison, since the devs could just whip up a room and have a 5 minute break to see. With the exception of not having ALL the code released, we could almost do that ourselves.
Also, you mentioned "to test the alpha maps" which I believe is not really relevant; There's no story/tutorial etc. and there's only going to be one or two maps, but the Spark editor shows that most problems here on in with maps will most likely be related to the amount of polish put in by the mapper (with the exception of initial bugs that may emerge from reproducing the effects of the engine on some machines, which is quickly fixable and not worth having an alpha stage entirely for, assuming we haven't squashed them all by now).
So essentially what I'm saying is (while referring to earlier tech demo commentary where the Spark editor is shown to be "hot-loadable" on everything everywhere) is that if you wanted that, all you'd have to do is ask for it to be included in the next patch; something they likely already have in order to show that tech demo about in-game lighting effects from the NS1 model/weapon/HUD style first person perspective tour, possibly only held back so that all testing and feedback would be focused on what they want you to test (which is also possibly why we only have one tool: to test the engine more than the tools).
Zex and cmc5788 have the rest I wished to say covered better than I could put it.
<!--quoteo(post=1750559:date=Feb 4 2010, 06:15 AM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Feb 4 2010, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have low expectations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good to know.
And where are you coming up this idea of a playable closed beta? English may be continually evolving as a language, but that doesn't mean you can just make up definitions for things. I've been involved in game projects both professional and unprofessional, and as innovative as UWE is, that doesn't mean they're going to start pulling terms out of their asses.
They said, "something small, polished and playable." This means that there will be something we can play with, and if it's polished, that means that whatever they're releasing could be of lesser quality. I can't understand how you could make a low-quality walking demo without purposely screwing it up. And if it's something small, as they said, I doubt that it could be anything close to feature-complete.
And there's something everyone should know: <b><i>If it was just going to be a walking demo, it would have been released by now.</i></b> With the map tools and everything already released, a walking demo would be simple enough to create in, at most, a few days. Since they've been working on the game alongside the editor for the past forever, an alpha release consisting of nothing but walking would be more than a little shameful.
Exactly, It all seems to be 1 step behind or just simply backwards.
I too have been in some betas, Closed betas was a term used by some not many, was a small team for qiuck fast debugs and feature implimentaion, testing/tweeking to get rid of the obvious problems so there would be fewer pointless bug reports and more focus and more eyes on the less obvious problems, besides much more easier to work with a smaller team of testers than a massive community beta slinging loads of problems at you all at the same time.
NS1 had a similar approach, it has a small private beta with selected persons before more where brought in on a more open beta.
this whole topic is lawl because of the fact that the term "alpha" is thrown around in so many different ways these days that the term is anything BUT as defined as most people in this thread are trying to make it out to be.
<!--quoteo(post=1750578:date=Feb 3 2010, 03:56 PM:name=PSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PSA @ Feb 3 2010, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this whole topic is lawl because of the fact that the term "alpha" is thrown around in so many different ways these days that the term is anything BUT as defined as most people in this thread are trying to make it out to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's defined in a lot of different ways because the mod community uses it loosely. For commercial products, it has a pretty consistent definition. Plus there's just the intuitive definition... in order for something to be an alpha <i>of a game</i> it must logically have in-place the elements that define a specific game. Otherwise it's just an engine, which isn't an alpha of anything.
Unless engines are actually alphas <i>of everything</i>. Think about that. Pretty cool, right?
Well off hand, what is the corporate def of alpha? I usually refer to it as the current working build of a game. Feature incomplete, still tests going on, and far from final bug testing and balancing.
Ridiculous speculation. The Alpha will be released (hopefully soon), and we shall see what it holds within. <a href="http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5983/wrongq.jpg" target="_blank">Don't click</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1750656:date=Feb 4 2010, 02:58 PM:name=Karrde)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karrde @ Feb 4 2010, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well off hand, what is the corporate def of alpha? I usually refer to it as the current working build of a game. Feature incomplete, still tests going on, and far from final bug testing and balancing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find some wikipedia pages, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle</a>
In game development, Alpha usually means first playable version for test I think. Beta means all the main things for playing are included.
From the latest video, now we know the "pre-alpha" has internet connectivity and at least 1 marine, gorge, and skulk somewhat playable. I'd imagine the public Alpha release will be a polished version of this, so you'll be able to play a basic game with two commanders, skulk & gorge vs. marines. Probably with a limited tech tree, as well.
Comments
All in all I really hope they give us some specifics soon, will help very much when making levels and models
*chant*
ALPHA, ALPHA, ALPHA!
Also, we have neither date nor guarantee of Alpha release yet, so don't get too excited. Learn meditation or cooking or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, I would be happy with a stickfigure that could wander through ingame and nothing more. That would be a good start to alpha. I suspect they'll actually have a lot more, but don't care to speculate.
<!--quoteo(post=1750267:date=Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
...we have neither date nor guarantee of Alpha release yet, so don't get too excited...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No date. But there's been a "guarantee" of alpha since the pre-orders became available. Add to that the latest tweet.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Man, we're cranking on the alpha! Our next goal is to release something small, polished and playable. It's starting to come together! #fb<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM:name=)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( @ Feb 2 2010, 08:12 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Learn meditation or cooking or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think my OP showed any signs of over excitement. I'm cool with waiting and have a very full days of work, life, and friends everyday. Just that the Twitter was exciting and I wanted to discuss our expectations based of the Twitter. Too bad the whole thing got derailed.
EDIT: I recognize it was my bad for not actually posting the tweet on the OP.
An alpha gives at least SOMETHING for their audience to test enough to give them feedback. For such a small company, in-house testing would be inefficient, as the time it takes for 10 people to try to find a bug is significantly higher than the time it would take the thousands who have bought the game to find it. With thousands of people playing the game, those 10 people can spend their time fixing the bug(s), rather than playing the game to find them.
I'm not going to say what I think will or won't be included, but people need to consider this point when deciding what to hope for themselves. Just walking around your own maps wouldn't be enough to test anything, and including all features but having them noticeably incomplete would cause so many complaints and bug reports about so many various things that it would be nothing but chaotic, and wouldn't help the development process at all.
Good point. In our case, Beta also doesn't seem to conform to classic definitions.
<!--quoteo(post=1750400:date=Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No date. But there's been a "guarantee" of alpha since the pre-orders became available. Add to that the latest tweet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Correct. I meant "guarantee" as in "released in a few weeks" which, in hindsight, makes zero sense. Doh.
<!--quoteo(post=1750400:date=Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Feb 3 2010, 02:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think my OP showed any signs of over excitement. I'm cool with waiting and have a very full days of work, life, and friends everyday.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No need to act cool, we're all nerds here. :p <!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->Also that wasn't addressed at you personally.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1750437:date=Feb 3 2010, 06:16 AM:name=BigText)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigText @ Feb 3 2010, 06:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everyone who says, "I'd be satisfied to just be able to walk around my own maps," needs to consider the fact that alphas and betas are released for a reason. If they just let you walk around in your maps, that'd be nice, but it wouldn't help them, as a company, develop their product at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not? The Rifle Range mod is pretty much that, and it's a big part of internal testing. "Just walking around" isn't exactly a small thing to accomplish in itself. I think UW said before that they plan to add features on per-unit basis, as soon as they're relatively ready for public consumption. I believe they're doing this with the Editor right now.
"Small, polished and playable" I trust Charlie on that one.. and the whole team too of course.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010/2/spark_engine_questions_and_answers_1" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010...s_and_answers_1</a>
Latest blog post provides another snippet of info that undermines those doomsayers (not everyone who said the words, just those who tried to tranquilise the burning hope in our proud hearts. :P); There was always someone working from day 1ish on the actual game.
Therefore -
<div align='center'>Progress on Engine + Map Editor + Patches + Unseen sound and some netcode
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- = Gameplay
2
</div>
Or something like that. You lot figure out the exact statistics. :P
I just have a feeling that the devs would released a rather "polished" alpha. I think the main thing for the devs is to check to see if the things are working in the game and the gameplay mechanics of NS2. Balancing would also be a big deal for a game with asymmetrical side and although and alpha probably won't be enough to do balancing, it would give the devs some idea of where they should be heading.
And I don't expect it anytime soon. Soon meaning weeks.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier, well said. Unfortunately it doesn't seem as if this is what we're getting.
According to the doomsayers or according to the few lines of text that only hint at the truth?
Less straight up facts and clear diagrams than a general election. :/
I don't think any of you should be expecting anything anywhere near feature complete, regardless of whether or not your definition of "alpha" includes feature complete and playable. Keep in mind that I believe they are by-passing the closed alpha phase (this is pretty much a public alpha). Never have I seen an inital Alpha release have anything near the final state of the game. By the end of the alpha, we'll have most, if not all the gameplay mechanics built and further testing and tweaking will continue on into the beta phase, but intially, the Alpha is likely going to be pretty boring.
Patients, Daniel-san...
According to what Comprox posted earlier in this thread, which <b>seemed </b>to be a direct response to those of us who think an Alpha is a milestone release meant to test core game mechanics.
The extent to which this sentence is completely wrong is nothing short of <i>staggering</i>.
<!--quoteo(post=1750545:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its about getting the initial product out to the <b>Alpha testers</b> so, they can start the initial tests.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, like playing the basics of the game so they can find bugs, glitches, etc. so UWE can just fix them instead of working to find them themselves. This strategy works well for such a small company. This helps their product, which helps them as a company.
<!--quoteo(post=1750545:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In this case, I think it might be more about giving the Spark toolset another upgrade, giving the ability test out how players will move through a level and how well they actually fit. If we're lucky, netcode might be good enough for online play and we might just have a barely playable game on our hands.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where are you coming up with these ideas? If UWE was releasing a Spark patch, they would call it such. My programming skills are next to nothing, but I'm fairly confident that walking around a level isn't enough to really "test" on, unless it came with netcode and they were trying to do something wacky with player collision.
<!--quoteo(post=1750545:date=Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 4 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think any of you should be expecting anything anywhere near feature complete, regardless of whether or not your definition of "alpha" includes feature complete and playable. Keep in mind that I believe they are by-passing the closed alpha phase (this is pretty much a public alpha). Never have I seen an inital Alpha release have anything near the final state of the game. By the end of the alpha, we'll have most, if not all the gameplay mechanics built and further testing and tweaking will continue on into the beta phase, but intially, the Alpha is likely going to be pretty boring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funnily enough, what you said here is <i>completely right</i>, though I hope the last 10 works of your paragraph turn out false.
To simply walk round, check collisions on marine, skulk and effects of room sizes corridoor hights on the Lerk and onous. To just walk around as all the classes with no weapons is all I need. just need Walk, Crouch and Jump so alpha maps can be tested and debugged as much as posible before a playable closed beta.
no.
Sorry, I have to agree with zex on this one. An alpha may not be feature-polished, but it's design-complete. All the planned features are outlined and in some form present. It's playable and testable, though certainly not polished. There may be placeholder graphics, incomplete animations, vendor-specific incompatibilities, or even incomplete tech trees and such (so long as the concept of a tech tree and a few tiers are in-place and expandable), etc., but to at least some testable subset, the gameplay is implemented.
What you're defining as alpha is an indefinite block of "sub-alpha." There's no point in creating a milestone arbitrarily at some point during which the game is simply a rendering + physics engine with a few things you can toy with. If that's your definition of an alpha, I'll go fire up OpenGL and make an "alpha" in an hour. An alpha is a milestone because it's the outlined implementation of gameplay, not just the "idea" of gameplay or a sandbox wherein gameplay might take place.
Furthermore, given your definition of an alpha, the videos UWE has already released constitute an alpha. The tiny little lua fire-range mod has a character, physics, lighting, a gun, etc. If that's an alpha, why aren't we breaking out the champagne? If they released that to the public, would you say it qualifies as an acceptable definition of an alpha?
Agree, to some degree (hey, that rhymed!)
It'd have to be more complex than collision detection and height comparison, since the devs could just whip up a room and have a 5 minute break to see. With the exception of not having ALL the code released, we could almost do that ourselves.
Also, you mentioned "to test the alpha maps" which I believe is not really relevant; There's no story/tutorial etc. and there's only going to be one or two maps, but the Spark editor shows that most problems here on in with maps will most likely be related to the amount of polish put in by the mapper (with the exception of initial bugs that may emerge from reproducing the effects of the engine on some machines, which is quickly fixable and not worth having an alpha stage entirely for, assuming we haven't squashed them all by now).
So essentially what I'm saying is (while referring to earlier tech demo commentary where the Spark editor is shown to be "hot-loadable" on everything everywhere) is that if you wanted that, all you'd have to do is ask for it to be included in the next patch; something they likely already have in order to show that tech demo about in-game lighting effects from the NS1 model/weapon/HUD style first person perspective tour, possibly only held back so that all testing and feedback would be focused on what they want you to test (which is also possibly why we only have one tool: to test the engine more than the tools).
Zex and cmc5788 have the rest I wished to say covered better than I could put it.
Good to know.
And where are you coming up this idea of a playable closed beta? English may be continually evolving as a language, but that doesn't mean you can just make up definitions for things. I've been involved in game projects both professional and unprofessional, and as innovative as UWE is, that doesn't mean they're going to start pulling terms out of their asses.
They said, "something small, polished and playable." This means that there will be something we can play with, and if it's polished, that means that whatever they're releasing could be of lesser quality. I can't understand how you could make a low-quality walking demo without purposely screwing it up. And if it's something small, as they said, I doubt that it could be anything close to feature-complete.
And there's something everyone should know:
<b><i>If it was just going to be a walking demo, it would have been released by now.</i></b> With the map tools and everything already released, a walking demo would be simple enough to create in, at most, a few days. Since they've been working on the game alongside the editor for the past forever, an alpha release consisting of nothing but walking would be more than a little shameful.
I too have been in some betas, Closed betas was a term used by some not many, was a small team for qiuck fast debugs and feature implimentaion, testing/tweeking to get rid of the obvious problems so there would be fewer pointless bug reports and more focus and more eyes on the less obvious problems, besides much more easier to work with a smaller team of testers than a massive community beta slinging loads of problems at you all at the same time.
NS1 had a similar approach, it has a small private beta with selected persons before more where brought in on a more open beta.
It's defined in a lot of different ways because the mod community uses it loosely. For commercial products, it has a pretty consistent definition. Plus there's just the intuitive definition... in order for something to be an alpha <i>of a game</i> it must logically have in-place the elements that define a specific game. Otherwise it's just an engine, which isn't an alpha of anything.
Unless engines are actually alphas <i>of everything</i>. Think about that. Pretty cool, right?
<a href="http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5983/wrongq.jpg" target="_blank">Don't click</a>
I find some wikipedia pages, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle</a>
In game development, Alpha usually means first playable version for test I think. Beta means all the main things for playing are included.
Alpha gorge races :D