Post alpha fix list
Mr. Epic
Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18660Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18660Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Things that are annoying but not as annoying as not having the alpha</div>May I suggest those of us with concerns or grievances with certain looks or features or whatever list them in this thread so that they may not be forgotten but that they be placed in the context of our preference for the alpha first and the fixes later (but still done at some point).
Let us begin with the weapon direction issue. A couple of simple adjustments can deal with this one, there could even be an option in the menu (*realistic direction*). This isn't a big deal, but it is something.
Others?
Let us begin with the weapon direction issue. A couple of simple adjustments can deal with this one, there could even be an option in the menu (*realistic direction*). This isn't a big deal, but it is something.
Others?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
<ul><li>Smaller simplified environments and no hallways means bland combat zone with less depth</li><li>Faster combat with reduced game time means the game unfolds less and tech-trees are pruned</li><li>General oversimplifications and dumbing-down of the game including things such as auto-bite (more to come later).</li><li>Overly gimmicky/sexified female marine</li><li>Black armour (if it cannot be disabled clientside)</li><li>Taser (if they're serious)</li><li>Reserving this slot for future gimmicks which I have a feeling will be making appearences</li></ul>
anticipate an edit, I'm sure I'll remember more grievances later...
<ul><li>Smaller simplified environments and no hallways means bland combat zone with less depth</li><li>Faster combat with reduced game time means the game unfolds less and tech-trees are pruned</li><li>General oversimplifications and dumbing-down of the game including things such as auto-bite (more to come later).</li><li>Overly gimmicky/sexified female marine</li><li>Black armour (if it cannot be disabled clientside)</li><li>Taser (if they're serious)</li><li>Reserving this slot for future gimmicks which I have a feeling will be making appearences</li></ul>
anticipate an edit, I'm sure I'll remember more grievances later...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like you should probably be playing NS1 instead of waiting around for NS2.
EDIT: Posted too quick, thought it was a "things you wanna see post-alpha" thread.
<ul><li>Smaller simplified environments and no hallways means bland combat zone with less depth</li><li>Faster combat with reduced game time means the game unfolds less and tech-trees are pruned</li><li>General oversimplifications and dumbing-down of the game including things such as auto-bite (more to come later).</li><li>Overly gimmicky/sexified female marine</li><li>Black armour (if it cannot be disabled clientside)</li><li>Taser (if they're serious)</li><li>Reserving this slot for future gimmicks which I have a feeling will be making appearences</li></ul>
anticipate an edit, I'm sure I'll remember more grievances later...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
perhaps you should evaluate those when they are real and you can see them. This thread isn't for speculative concerns but known or seen issues.
What overly gimmicky/sexified female marine? There hasn't been shown a model of a female marine. Nor has there been confirmation that any female marines will make it into the game.
Tasers have been taken out already.
And the rest of your points are speculation, except the one on dumbing-down the game, which I will leave for now.
@Cybber - you said "grievances with looks and features", I assume the outlook of a game and potential features to be among those.
@BadMouth - see the concept sketches, one of which you can't miss ;)
You're right, it hasn't been confirmed yet, but nor has it been disconfirmed. Assuming concept sketches exist for a reason, I'm inclined to believe the prognosis should they follow through on said concept will result in ultimate-lame-space-b00b-gimmickry.
Lack of weapon sway makes me sad (but animation blending makes me happy). It's one of those little things that adds a ton to kinetic realism, and I'm sure that has to be important in a fast-paced game.
Oh and, don't take Renegade seriously, he generally can't separate personal preferences from objective opinion. There's no pill for that.
<ul><li>Smaller simplified environments and no hallways means bland combat zone with less depth</li><li>Faster combat with reduced game time means the game unfolds less and tech-trees are pruned</li><li>General oversimplifications and dumbing-down of the game including things such as auto-bite (more to come later).</li><li>Overly gimmicky/sexified female marine</li><li>Black armour (if it cannot be disabled clientside)</li><li>Taser (if they're serious)</li><li>Reserving this slot for future gimmicks which I have a feeling will be making appearences</li></ul>
anticipate an edit, I'm sure I'll remember more grievances later...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The majority of that is mere speculation so I won't comment, but a couple of points:
<ul><li>Auto-bite and the taser weren't implemented.</li><li>The only basis your maps comment has in truth is that the maps will be slightly smaller than the average NS1 map. I don't even understand how you think NS2 maps would have no hallways.</li></ul>
Gonna emphasize this point with the map layout that came with the NS2 mapping guidelines.
Looks complex enough in my book but less random.
<img src="http://www.andrige.com/ns2/ExampleMap.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Team Fortress 2 has gotten pretty popular, so it has a healthy number of servers and players. I expect NS2 to be no less successful, personally. The problem here is the excess of unwanted or tasteless additions to the original game. Now, don't get me wrong, there are still PLENTY of good ol' vanilla servers for someone like myself to play on, but there would be a great deal more if "LOLPARTYMODE" didn't exist. I guess I'm somewhat hypocritical in modding HL2, but disliking changes in other titles I've enjoyed. It's certainly a personal concern, but I think it carries with it a teensy bit of "logical problem."
My current opinion on TF2 is "######-storm of uninteresting and unwanted additions." (Though the WC3 RPG addon is fun as hell!) This is based on a game that actually has very little changed. Party settings, gravity, critical damage rates, respawn times, and stuff of that nature are "minor" annoyances in my opinion, but still enough to keep me from joining certain servers. NS2 and it's LUA claims will allow for much more, to the point of what we've seen in G-mod. Also like G-mod, I have high hopes in seeing FUN and ENJOYABLE mods along side NS2 vanilla... But it still sings the same song as the unwanted mods: Dilutes player bases and takes NS2 out of the limelight.
I'm excited to see what NS2 has become, and I'm just as excited to see where it will go through mods and updates, but this is definitely my major, standing concern.
Unfortunately the distraction from the original seems to happen in every game. Partitially it's fine, it's their business. Still, as you mentioned, a lot of people would learn to love the original more if they weren't distracted by the mods.
I just hope that people at UWE pay attention to the game's learning curve and feedback so that people keep finding things that make the vanilla game enjoyable. For example in NS1 most people miss the more advanced RTS possibilities almost completely and half of the people don't know how the air curve works.
Charming, considering you yourself are quite the pill.
<!--quoteo(post=1749054:date=Jan 25 2010, 03:16 AM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Jan 25 2010, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749054"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The majority of that is mere speculation so I won't comment, but a couple of points:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So be it then, unconfirmed speculation still remains a grievance. I'm glad for whatever I listed here to be cleared up as false (and less-so as true).
<!--quoteo(post=1749058:date=Jan 25 2010, 03:51 AM:name=WatchMaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WatchMaker @ Jan 25 2010, 03:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My largest standing concern with NS2 is somewhat "doomsday crier" esque,
...
I expect NS2 to be no less successful, personally. The problem here is the excess of unwanted or tasteless additions to the original game.
...
I'm excited to see what NS2 has become, and I'm just as excited to see where it will go through mods and updates, but this is definitely my major, standing concern.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I generally subscribe to the fears expressed in this post.
UW have specifically said they'll at the very least allow us to separate vanilla games from modded ones in the server browser. I'm personally hoping for a more extensive interface, as in filter by mods... Kinda like tags in TF2, actually.
The question is, really, *how* modding is going to be handled. It might be annoying in TF2 as it is, but it was easily a godsend for Half-Life (what was that mod for it called again?..) or Unreal Tournament.
<ul><li>Black armour (if it cannot be disabled clientside)</li></ul>
anticipate an edit, I'm sure I'll remember more grievances later...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why black armor? i dont see people crying about constellation it shouldnt be serverside, people have it because they paid the extra 20$ so that they can give more money to the devs and support. You can to, if you didnt well thats your own problem, but personally id like to have my black armor on all servers.
Some of the important things that old NS1 vet's seems to forget before judging the new ideas of map conception and other things like the taser and auto-bite feature is that we need to evaluate how in-depth you'll need some of these features to be implemented.
Things we don't know for example, that are directly related are: speed of movement of all units, air control, rate of fire, health of all units, all the timescale about tech researches and constructions (hive build, etc), how the different tech's influence the whole gameplay (like, at when moment in a game you get to actually use leap).
We know the game is going to be similar to NS1 at some point but those are all little details (or not so little) that MAKES the game. They could make all the elements you are arguing about as important as futile.
This kinda thread should see the day only when the alpha IS released.. so you can make suggestions to fix, remove or add a feature to the game so it balances the gameplay, because a what makes a game good is ONLY the gameplay, no matter the graphics, the sound quality, the realism (gun not pointing at crosshair?)
It's a gameplay decision rather than a technology one. Obviously the engine's de facto limits aren't certain yet, because the optimisation is not complete, but I would imagine that it could handle an NS1-sized level okay.
You're kidding right? Yes, I'll take <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Image:NS2_Female_Marine_Concepts_-_Final.jpg" target="_blank">lvl 3</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Image:ArmoryConcept.jpg" target="_blank">underboob armour</a> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Image:InfantryPortalConcept.jpg" target="_blank">pl0x cormander!</a>
Granted it's not done as in poor taste as other games this century, but in a game like NS, underboob armour is unnecessarily gimmicky.
<!--quoteo(post=1749087:date=Jan 25 2010, 09:21 AM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hoodedsniper @ Jan 25 2010, 09:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why black armor? i dont see people crying about constellation it shouldnt be serverside, people have it because they paid the extra 20$ so that they can give more money to the devs and support. You can to, if you didnt well thats your own problem, but personally id like to have my black armor on all servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sigh. Consties aren't running around with icons above their heads in-game. Constellation exists <b>outside of</b> the game and affects nothing other than the score tab and e-peen. Black Armour will exist <b>inside of</b> the game and will affect the player as much as having black skulks running around or black anything for that matter. You want to feel special on all servers? Great, feel free to enjoy yours and others' specialness by enabling it <b>clientside</b>, but I don't want my NS2 infested with hats and unlocks while I play on a so-called vanilla server just because one or two pre-orders might feel "unspecial".
<ul><b></li><li>Auto-bite and the taser weren't implemented.</b></li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank god.
Well the ones who are paying more than you.... Do.
Black armor is happening, they can't just give back half of their earnings or not deliver it. I have a feeling the black armor thing isn't going to be a big deal, it will be a cool bonus but nothing more.
Map sizes are going to be whatever they give us initially. Guidelines are out, I am guessing there are some maps already in the works that will end up in the alpha. We get what we get, but the user made maps will likely be more ns-1ish in size and feel. Consider these test cases as the game will be very different with tech points. Wait and see.
There is no female armor atm, I think its a non-issue.
Whoever brought up the TF2 issue, I quite agree with there needing to be great concern for some idiot modders putting out ns2 party mode and clogging half of the servers. A vanilla filter is a must have, and perhaps some more advanced controls to filter or inform.
We certainly don't and I think it's safe for me to speak for the NS (1 at least) community. I don't think they have that taste and neither I have it for crap like that.
Black armor is fine to me but nothing else would do.
Some filters are defintely necessary. There's always need for adminmod, mapvote system and such.
Maybe have the filter with 3 options: Vanilla - Vanilla gameplay - Custom. Or just have a blacklist/whitelist for plugins.
Hum.. what?
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/2/unknown_worlds_videocast_8_tools" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009...deocast_8_tools</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/2/unknown_worlds_videocast_8_tools" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009...deocast_8_tools</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, I guess she will be in it at some point.
lets read the first post in the thread, that issue has been addressed.
Im pretty sure NS2 wont have hats or unlocks. The devs have stated NUMEROUS times, the black armor will not effect game play at all and the skulks are already black by the way. If we payed the extra 20 then it shouldnt ever be disabled because of people who didnt pay the extra 20.
You strike me as the kind of person who is like, if i dont have it then no one else should. Your already complaining about a game that isnt even released or even finished and you already want to change things, i cannot imagine the amount of threads your going to throw around once it is out.
Oh boy...
<ul><li>Smaller simplified environments and no hallways means bland combat zone with less depth</li><li>Faster combat with reduced game time means the game unfolds less and tech-trees are pruned</li><li>General oversimplifications and dumbing-down of the game including things such as auto-bite (more to come later).</li><li>Overly gimmicky/sexified female marine</li><li>Black armour (if it cannot be disabled clientside)</li><li>Taser (if they're serious)</li><li>Reserving this slot for future gimmicks which I have a feeling will be making appearences</li></ul>
anticipate an edit, I'm sure I'll remember more grievances later...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
perhaps you should evaluate those when they are real and you can see them. This thread isn't for speculative concerns but known or seen issues.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with Renegade about potentially gimmicks in NS2 but disagree with him about the Taser and in general, the gameplay changes.
About the game, we won't know how well the game plays until it comes out. While it may seem NS2 is just simplifying NS1(alien command, 1 hive only, smaller maps), how do we know it might or might not make the game better or worse?
For now, I am glad that NS2 is changing so much from NS1. Change may not always be a bad thing, we'll just have to see.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My current opinion on TF2 is "######-storm of uninteresting and unwanted additions." (Though the WC3 RPG addon is fun as hell!) This is based on a game that actually has very little changed. Party settings, gravity, critical damage rates, respawn times, and stuff of that nature are "minor" annoyances in my opinion, but still enough to keep me from joining certain servers. NS2 and it's LUA claims will allow for much more, to the point of what we've seen in G-mod. Also like G-mod, I have high hopes in seeing FUN and ENJOYABLE mods along side NS2 vanilla... But it still sings the same song as the unwanted mods: Dilutes player bases and takes NS2 out of the limelight.
I'm excited to see what NS2 has become, and I'm just as excited to see where it will go through mods and updates, but this is definitely my major, standing concern.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
What I am liking about NS2 is that it is different than NS1.
Maybe it's me, but the problem with making a sequel too similar to the prequel is that it might not actually be better than the prequel game.
For example, Team Fortress Classic versus Team Fortress 2(What TF2 adds but what TF2 takes away):
<b>TF2 Adds:</b>
1. New graphics. Each character now has a story and personality.
2. Achievements. <- I hate Achievements, flawed system IMO. Especially considering that a large amount of servers consist of achievement maps, where players can idle for achievements.
Not to mention forcing players to play the game a certain way(Hey, maybe I'll try to get a taunt attack kill instead of helping my team) is rather lame.
3. New game modes. <- Really, the only actual addition in TF2 are new game modes.
4. Hats, woot!
<b>TF2 Removes:</b>
1. Grenades. I highly approve that Valve hates nade spamming in games like BF2 as much as I do but team fortress classic never suffered from "nade spamming". Mainly because the grenades, while not useless, were not overpowered or one shot kills either(compared to BF2 where each player is given 4 nades, and one nade can take out 3 players).
<b>So what do we have?</b>
TFC without grenades but with...... HATS!!! Hats guys, that must make TF2 so much better than TFC.
I have TF2 and I can safely say I enjoy TFC a lot more.
IMO, TF2's new additions are almost nothing but "gimmicks". The core game has not changed, I don't mind that but the problem is that they have added nothing new either.
The only real additions are new maps and game modes, everything else are just gimmicks<i>(achievements, the announcer, cartoony but yet somewhat appealing graphics, whether the pyro is a male or female)</i> just to get people to buy the game.
Now the difference between TF2 and NS2 is that NS2 is not relying on gimmicks to get players to buy the game.
We heard of changes we might not like(alien commander, tasers, and marines being able to buy weapons) but the good thing is that it makes NS2 a lot different than NS1.
Whether that's good or bad, only time will tell, but the point is, at least UWE isn't selling by gimmicking up the game like Valve did with TF2 and TFC.
They're working hard on <i>actual game play changes</i> which may or may not enhance the gameplay seen in NS1<i>(alien commander, the gridlock, etc)</i>. <b>Valve just took the same game(TFC), added and removed a few stuff and called it a day. </b>
UWE is at least trying to do something different. They're trying to balance the game for both large and small servers(AKA, alien commander, etc). I'm glad that they're doing all this or at least trying to do something different.
<b>While the female marine and black armor may be or may not be gimmicks, at least they're not the only thing in NS2(again, TF2's only new features are gimmicks.).</b>