<!--quoteo(post=1752164:date=Feb 10 2010, 02:18 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 10 2010, 02:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752164"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can only disagree with you here. My opinion is that you're exaggerating the RTS element of NS' classic mode in order to avoid conceding anything positive to CO mode.
What I'm referring to is basic gameplay for either marines or aliens. CO is alot quicker for a new user to learn how to actually play as an alien than classic mode, which in itself can be a long, drawn out game depending on the time limit. So the player can actually practice playing as a fade for example pretty quickly, and using the various abilities, instead of having to wait till the alien side have enough hives/res/points/etc in classic mode to then play as a fade. And the player can do this without having to worry about the RTS side of the game, which although nothing difficult, just adds a further complication.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my opinion combat had two major problems assuming its job was to indtroduce people to NS.
First of all, combat distracted people from seeing NS. People rarely go looking for challenge in games, so they'll stick to the first accessible gameplay they find. Without combat people would have tried NS, maybe sticked in it long enough to get into it and enjoy it. Now they'll just stick to combat because nothing pushes them to try a bit harder and find more depth.
The distraction issue was amplified further by the fact that combat alone didn't teach you NS. To learn NS through combat past the very basic principles you have to know how the actual NS works and that's exactly what most combat players don't know yet. So, when they pick the fade, their mindset is only to frag, not to preserve the fade. They will also rely on upgrade combinations not accessible on NS and play style that never works in NS. At that point the stepping stone effect becomes almost inexistant and combat becomes just the distraction.
Meanwhile as an experienced NS player I can go into combat and use it to improve my NS skills (to some extend at least), because I know what the differences are and I can still play the combat with the mindset of NSer.
I could go further into why combat doesn't work, but I guess it boils down mostly to those two.
<!--quoteo(post=1752025:date=Feb 9 2010, 02:28 PM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 02:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752025"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is with the hate of Combat Only mode?
It was great, and if you didn't like it, then you still have your original mode to play.
I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular, and therefore don't want it to be made so that everyone who gets the game is forced to play the original version. Otherwise, why would it bother you if this mode existed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think people got annoyed because a lot of servers ran combat instead of NS, like combat takes part of the server share from the NS mode.
People do the same thing in armed assault when people inevitably make games based around shooting rather than walking and being yelled at and they inevitably become incredibly popular compared to the default walk and yell mode.
Personally I like both, combat removes all the silly fluff NS has while NS generally has more interesting maps.
As for why ns 'died' I would have said the huge glaring problems in the gameplay that make it impossible to get into unless your entire server is full of new players might have had something to do with it. The game is stagnant, and because it has such a high skill ceiling that means everyone has to compete with people who are effectively untouchable unless you've been playing for ages. It happens in any game that has a small playerbase and high skill ceiling. The fact that it's ancient also probably has something to do with it. Nobody wants to play an outdated ugly looking game when they can be playing new games.
<!--quoteo(post=1752193:date=Feb 10 2010, 04:13 AM:name=ctd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ctd @ Feb 10 2010, 04:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752193"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why even play NS if you only like combat mode? Seems retarded. So many other FPS games have a level up system and they offer far more depth than combat did.
Also if you think you need to be in a clan to enjoy vanilla NS than you are obviously playing on the wrong servers or you are terrible and probably shouldn't buy NS2 in case I have to play on the same server and team as you.
Anyway it doesn't matter because the devs have stated many times they aren't releasing a combat mode. Hopefully the community does everyone a favour and doesn't create a combat style mod. I'd like to see some CREATIVE mod ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why Combat mode? Because NS is great for it. The two sides are well balanced, the units are great, their abilities are great. It lends itself perfectly to fast paced, intense, high skilled FPS action. I also can't think of many other games multiplayer FPS games where you get a levelling system within the map only - i.e. as opposed to a permanent levelling/unlocking system found in games like Modern Warfare. Point is, that's part of what made CO so much fun - it's just like what made Counter Strike so successful in the first place, in that you get rewarded for killing in game, but each time you change map or join a server that all resets and it's a level playing field. For those who like competitive gameplay where individual skill is the defining factor, it's great.
As for vanilla mode, I am only talking from years of personal experience, so please, have a bit of respect instead of being so insular as to only consider your different experience to be Gospel. If there's a bad commander in the seat, and noone else capable of commanding well (it's certainly the most difficult skill in the game imo given how you need planning/leadership skills of some sort), then you may as well just F4 if you're a marine. Similarly, if aliens aren't working together, then it's utterly fail if the marines have a decent commander in the chair. Why do you think CO mode was so popular on public servers? People were tired of fail NS games.
I hope the community does EVERYONE (and I mean everyone, whereas you only mean the NS purists who only want the RTS mode) a favour and includes a CO mode. This is a game people are paying for, and I'm sure many like myself have pre-ordered in the anticipation that a CO mode is going to be included (why shouldn't it, given how popular it was?). So it's letting people down by not giving the option.
Those who want to play it can play it. Those who don't want to play it don't have to. Simple.
Comments
What I'm referring to is basic gameplay for either marines or aliens. CO is alot quicker for a new user to learn how to actually play as an alien than classic mode, which in itself can be a long, drawn out game depending on the time limit. So the player can actually practice playing as a fade for example pretty quickly, and using the various abilities, instead of having to wait till the alien side have enough hives/res/points/etc in classic mode to then play as a fade. And the player can do this without having to worry about the RTS side of the game, which although nothing difficult, just adds a further complication.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my opinion combat had two major problems assuming its job was to indtroduce people to NS.
First of all, combat distracted people from seeing NS. People rarely go looking for challenge in games, so they'll stick to the first accessible gameplay they find. Without combat people would have tried NS, maybe sticked in it long enough to get into it and enjoy it. Now they'll just stick to combat because nothing pushes them to try a bit harder and find more depth.
The distraction issue was amplified further by the fact that combat alone didn't teach you NS. To learn NS through combat past the very basic principles you have to know how the actual NS works and that's exactly what most combat players don't know yet. So, when they pick the fade, their mindset is only to frag, not to preserve the fade. They will also rely on upgrade combinations not accessible on NS and play style that never works in NS. At that point the stepping stone effect becomes almost inexistant and combat becomes just the distraction.
Meanwhile as an experienced NS player I can go into combat and use it to improve my NS skills (to some extend at least), because I know what the differences are and I can still play the combat with the mindset of NSer.
I could go further into why combat doesn't work, but I guess it boils down mostly to those two.
It was great, and if you didn't like it, then you still have your original mode to play.
I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular, and therefore don't want it to be made so that everyone who gets the game is forced to play the original version. Otherwise, why would it bother you if this mode existed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think people got annoyed because a lot of servers ran combat instead of NS, like combat takes part of the server share from the NS mode.
People do the same thing in armed assault when people inevitably make games based around shooting rather than walking and being yelled at and they inevitably become incredibly popular compared to the default walk and yell mode.
Personally I like both, combat removes all the silly fluff NS has while NS generally has more interesting maps.
As for why ns 'died' I would have said the huge glaring problems in the gameplay that make it impossible to get into unless your entire server is full of new players might have had something to do with it. The game is stagnant, and because it has such a high skill ceiling that means everyone has to compete with people who are effectively untouchable unless you've been playing for ages. It happens in any game that has a small playerbase and high skill ceiling. The fact that it's ancient also probably has something to do with it. Nobody wants to play an outdated ugly looking game when they can be playing new games.
Also if you think you need to be in a clan to enjoy vanilla NS than you are obviously playing on the wrong servers or you are terrible and probably shouldn't buy NS2 in case I have to play on the same server and team as you.
Anyway it doesn't matter because the devs have stated many times they aren't releasing a combat mode. Hopefully the community does everyone a favour and doesn't create a combat style mod. I'd like to see some CREATIVE mod ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why Combat mode? Because NS is great for it. The two sides are well balanced, the units are great, their abilities are great. It lends itself perfectly to fast paced, intense, high skilled FPS action. I also can't think of many other games multiplayer FPS games where you get a levelling system within the map only - i.e. as opposed to a permanent levelling/unlocking system found in games like Modern Warfare. Point is, that's part of what made CO so much fun - it's just like what made Counter Strike so successful in the first place, in that you get rewarded for killing in game, but each time you change map or join a server that all resets and it's a level playing field. For those who like competitive gameplay where individual skill is the defining factor, it's great.
As for vanilla mode, I am only talking from years of personal experience, so please, have a bit of respect instead of being so insular as to only consider your different experience to be Gospel. If there's a bad commander in the seat, and noone else capable of commanding well (it's certainly the most difficult skill in the game imo given how you need planning/leadership skills of some sort), then you may as well just F4 if you're a marine. Similarly, if aliens aren't working together, then it's utterly fail if the marines have a decent commander in the chair. Why do you think CO mode was so popular on public servers? People were tired of fail NS games.
I hope the community does EVERYONE (and I mean everyone, whereas you only mean the NS purists who only want the RTS mode) a favour and includes a CO mode. This is a game people are paying for, and I'm sure many like myself have pre-ordered in the anticipation that a CO mode is going to be included (why shouldn't it, given how popular it was?). So it's letting people down by not giving the option.
Those who want to play it can play it. Those who don't want to play it don't have to. Simple.