ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited January 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1746458:date=Jan 9 2010, 05:43 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 9 2010, 05:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1746458"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's a very interesting post. That's why one of the solution (for example, to counter Wallhack), is that the server check the client side position, and determine wich player he can see or not. If he can't see others players, the server just don't communicate the others players position. (So even if he wall hack, he won't be able to see other people he's not supposed to see, because his even his CLIENT don't know it.)
To avoid cheat, when developping the game, you have to consider that no client can be trusted. Rechecking the client sent position and determine wether or not he can be here (relatively to his last known position). In order to avoid speedhack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easier solution: Set sv_pure to 1 or 2. <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651553" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...ad.php?t=651553</a>
I suspect the type of cheating you are referring to is more due to lax server administration than a failure of VAC. As far as I can tell, Valve left certain anti-cheating protection up to server owners because they overlapped with legitimate pursuits (e.g. people wanting to use custom models can also be abused by cheaters via replacing wall textures with transparent materials). They came up with a prudent balance between security and flexibility IMO.
Actually i think that customization like changing the models should not be permitted... I dont see why a player would NEED to change something in the game.
Cuz if you dont that, you can have glowing green model that you can see everywhere etc... it sux.
VAC & VAC2 Are in reality systems created by marketing genius'. If any of you knew how much money game companies make because of developers actually, purposefully putting loopholes or including hacks in the engines themselves you would see a pattern here like I do today in video games. I myself am working on spark however I already encountered a crash which resulted in much lost work partly due to a non auto save and personal intoxication resulting in memory shortage to save my work.
Anyway back to cheating... since this game is indie you should have no problems creating sufficient anti-hack and game file check systems which are necessary to League play and a games true monetary worth to the community.
It's time a reign of cheaters was put to a stop. It is bad enough games allow people to cheat even whilst on LAN. Trust me I have personally thrown people out of LAN centers whom try to use usb driven cheats as soon as they plus their mouse or keyboard in, your network has a chance of being infected and is a huge problem in all of today's cafes. It is very hard to catch a cheater as such using small tiny moving head dots but I have been gaming since BNC so I usually know when someone is doing it and you have to be aware of all the known possible cheats. Shame on the server hosts and developers for promoting it.
<!--quoteo(post=1745672:date=Jan 4 2010, 05:11 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Jan 4 2010, 05:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only "true" VAC-proof cheating require employment of a "Cafe" account, which can only be secured through professional legal fraud and a sizeable monetary investment, or infiltrating a low-security Cafe itself. This can still be nullified granted public complaints about the issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1746976:date=Jan 12 2010, 09:03 PM:name=Wreckus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wreckus @ Jan 12 2010, 09:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1746976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only anti-cheat that will be effective is dedicated servers with an admin staff that can ban users based on their unchangeable account ID or CD-key. Along with a Vote-Kick system for players to use to police their own game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's no reason those features can't be implemented. But to rely solely on them would easily be a death sentence to most servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1746995:date=Jan 12 2010, 11:49 PM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 12 2010, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1746995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually i think that customization like changing the models should not be permitted... I dont see why a player would NEED to change something in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For fun?..
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 13 2010, 05:20 AM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 13 2010, 05:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If any of you knew how much money game companies make because of developers actually, purposefully putting loopholes or including hacks in the engines themselves you would see a pattern here like I do today in video games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So then, you do know how much they're making off of it. Well? Link or something?
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 13 2010, 05:20 AM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 13 2010, 05:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway back to cheating... since this game is indie you should have no problems creating sufficient anti-hack and game file check systems which are necessary to League play and a games true monetary worth to the community.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not with one or two programmers, no.
Arent most anti cheats done by not the game makers but community or something concentrading in anti-cheat programs? At least this is how it works after company discards the game deveploment.
<!--quoteo(post=1745214:date=Dec 31 2009, 05:00 AM:name=th0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (th0r @ Dec 31 2009, 05:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745214"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will anything be done to address cheating in NS2, or will it be as rampant as it is in NS1 now? I am so sick of having to accept 1 guy going 19-0 fifteen minutes into a game where all of his teammates have between 0 to 2 kills themselves. A quick search on google (or even youtube) brings up so many results for hacks, I have to imagine NS is currently as bad or worse than counterstrike ever was. As far as I can tell VAC does absolutely nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there are ppl out there, who spent month of their live playing ns.
accept their skill, such ppl could have movement you could not even think of.
that is very important to a game, that you can SEPARATE yourself from all the others trough skill.
most ppl are skilled oldsql players and not cheaters!
if you want an easy game, go and play wow, their you can own with only a mouseclick 10 bot opponents, but ppl could try to struggle!
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I already encountered a crash which resulted in much lost work partly <b>due to a non auto save and personal <u>intoxication</u></b> resulting in memory shortage to save my work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> :) Make a note people! Drunk mapping is bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's time a reign of cheaters was put to a stop. It is bad enough games allow people to cheat even whilst on LAN. Trust me I have personally thrown people out of LAN centers whom try to use usb driven cheats as soon as they plus their mouse or keyboard in, your network has a chance of being infected and is a huge problem in all of today's cafes. It is very hard to catch a cheater as such using small tiny moving head dots but I have been gaming since BNC so I usually know when someone is doing it and you have to be aware of all the known possible cheats. Shame on the server hosts and developers for promoting it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Any decent cafe isn't really worried about viruses, and any decent cafe will also allow people to use flash drives all they want. Cheating isn't something you can program away, <b>it is a very human issue that is best handled by good administration practices</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->P.S. OpenGL FTW<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As a C++ programmer who has to use OpenGL for a project of mine, I can see why anyone would not want to use OpenGL, primarily due to insane hardware support scenarios (ATI is notoriously bad at handling OpenGL for example). DirectX, while it maybe M$ (:rolleyes:) is very well thought out, efficient and well supported across all modern hardware.
Anyway, I repeat:
<b>Cheating is a human issue that cannot be programmed away. People are clever and will always find a way around any clientside protections, the best you can do is have a good blend of a well programmed clientside and a healthy administration on a dedicated server. Cheating protections like gameguard and punkbuster can introduce false positives, which in my mind are way worse than letting a cheater or two onto a server, since you risk denying potentially legitimate players.</b>
If you try too hard to control people, you end up with very clumsy and un-likeable mechanisms. Take DRM for example, it's almost more attractive for many people to pirate a game because it DOESN'T come preloaded with so much DRM nonsense.
Trashtalk NS1 all you want but updated half life 1 does a pretty good job at suppressing cheaters as elegantly as it can, and that may be something you just need to accept.
i didnt read all the messages in that topic but i want to say :
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->NO TO THE NEWBIE SCRIPT<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
its 1 of the reason why i stopped playing ns1. bs fade flying everywhere and never touching the ground a single time in 5 min of playing and lerk flying 10x the normal speed ... its frustrating me so much.
i want all servers to use a script-blocker. i want that being implemented directly inside the game <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->by default<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
if you cant play the game the way creator make it then you SUCK. learn how to play a fps
edit :
oh and btw about the real cheating : if UnknownWorld is not stupid like nexon (combat arm) then it would probably be fine lol. at least i dont remember having seen a single cheater in ns1 except the &($/?$&( scripter who were EVERYWHERE
<!--quoteo(post=1747663:date=Jan 17 2010, 03:50 PM:name=Destrock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destrock @ Jan 17 2010, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i want all servers to use a script-blocker. i want that being implemented directly inside the game <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->by default<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is impossible. Script has been, and always will-be, available as a macro system in any OS, outside of the game.
The reason scripts exist are the beneficial to the player repetitive tasks that can be performed without human input: eliminate either component and you eliminate the need for scripting.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--quoteo(post=1747663:date=Jan 17 2010, 09:50 AM:name=Destrock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destrock @ Jan 17 2010, 09:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->its 1 of the reason why i stopped playing ns1. bs fade flying everywhere and never touching the ground a single time in 5 min of playing and lerk flying 10x the normal speed ... its frustrating me so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...scripts have nothing to do with either of those actions?
<!--quoteo(post=1747663:date=Jan 17 2010, 04:50 PM:name=Destrock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destrock @ Jan 17 2010, 04:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->its 1 of the reason why i stopped playing ns1. bs fade flying everywhere and never touching the ground a single time in 5 min of playing and lerk flying 10x the normal speed ... its frustrating me so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Poor boy I'm afraid that you entered random combat server with plugins like /xmenu and extra levels that obviously ruin the game. The one playing there are most likely people who think every good movement or aside from obvious is a script and play there for these add-ons are cool yet knowing they affect game more than scripts.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Poor boy I'm afraid that you entered random combat server with plugins like /xmenu and extra levels that obviously ruin the game. The one playing there are most likely people who think every good movement or aside from obvious is a script and play there for these add-ons are cool yet knowing they affect game more than scripts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just to let u know guys im not noob lol ... i played all version of ns from the 1.0 i know its because of the script not because of a plug in ...
1.0 was the good old time ahhHHHHH i was loving the laser mine blocking all entrances aahhHHHHH and being a gorg with 3 hive hahaha was fun
Time played != knowledge/skill of the game. The only movements I know people use scripts for are wiggle/double jump(marine)/ and for bhop. Unless you are counting +movement I really doubt a fade or lerk is using a script to enhance their movement. And on that note I'd like to say you are indeed a noob.
<!--quoteo(post=1747749:date=Jan 17 2010, 07:30 PM:name=Destrock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destrock @ Jan 17 2010, 07:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->noob i am then
we still dont need the people using script<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well what the people here are trying to say is that no matter how much you personally want it gone, not only are there legitimate uses for scripts, but people will figure out a way to automate those actions and gain slight advantages no matter what.
Oke so now after random kid whines about the millions of cheaters in NS ( probably all the bots on the empty servers, they are so sick when they reach you... anyway ) we have a whiner about scripting ( wtf? scripting and cheating relating ? GB2K ) and it seems clear he has no idea what scripts are all about in NS. Also, WHAT THE ###### ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BLOCKSCRIPTING TEH GAME ISNT EVEN ALPHA zomg we don't even know for sure if we will have side client scripting as we have in NS1, it's like saying " I HOPE ON CO_FACEOFF THEY ADD A NEW VENT " wehn there is obviously no faceoff map nor combat mode. Srsly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and it seems clear he has no idea what scripts are all about in NS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In all games, the script are use to make a succession of action in one click only.
exemple : <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t88497.html" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/lofive...php/t88497.html</a>
directly from the forum here after a search on google.
of course i whine about scripter. if u defend them and call me noob im sure its because ur using it and u SUX
<!--quoteo(post=1747796:date=Jan 18 2010, 06:28 AM:name=Destrock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destrock @ Jan 18 2010, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In all games, the script are use to make a succession of action in one click only.
exemple : <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t88497.html" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/lofive...php/t88497.html</a>
directly from the forum here after a search on google.
of course i whine about scripter. if u defend them and call me noob im sure its because ur using it and u SUX<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oke nice hehe
No srsly, how many years have you not played NS by now ? And how many seconds did you spend on scripting ? No offense but you just don't realize what scripts can or cannot do, therefore any arguments like "they shoot 10 times faster lulz thx script put bs1 pls" is just bs.
Really I can't realize why there are so many legends about scripts among pubbers ... I will end this sentence here or i would become offensive ok ¿?
Cheating is bad mmkay? But catching it can be exceptionally easy OR exceptionally hard.
Theres really no middleground from my experience admining. There are those who cheat and do it SO BLATANTLY that its like "Ok obvious, ban, thank you come again." and then theres the ones that use wallhack for example (which in NS you need wallhack? Really? Motion sense or scent of fear isn't good enough?) that get hard to dicern.
I got accused of cheating many a time when I would just stare into a wall once I had motion tracking, or upgraded Scent of Fear. Why? because now I could see through the wall effectivly.
Aimbots that are toggled quickly can be amazingly difficult also since if toggled right people can do things like an immediate spin to the target when they hear the click of a skulk...but the trick is skilled players can do that too.
Cheat detection is really something that takes a ton of time and really in the end unless its blatant you need basically an admin vote sorta to go "Ok do we all agree this is too fishy?" and take the leap of faith of the ban if you agree.
as for scripts, bleh.
I personally dislike scripting. I always thought myself more skilled and better at the game as a whole if I could compete with other players and I only used 1 action per bind.
Some people like their scripts and really thats how they want to play but I always felt binding multiple things to 1 key basically made you more reliant on the command series then on your own abilities and reflexes (ie: how fast you could push the button to do something).
Learning timing of bunnyhopping for example I found fun to be able to do it on my own without a script. Speed firing pistol by clicking like I was playing a freakin Megaman game, flying as a lerk or fading around. Those things I always felt had more meaning if you did them well by pushing the buttons.
I'd like at least the option for servers to enforce a 1 command per bind type deal if possible, but I will not expect it or look down on the game more for lacking it. Just continue to feel that I am better as a player for being able to play without setting up those special binds and such.
Scripting does make things easier, yes, but i'd prefer the game be set up to where, to be good, you don't need to understand all the little counterintuitive things that you'd never learn just by playing.
Aimbot can be seen from demos and screenshots are for wallhacks. I don't believe there is widespread hacking in NS. I can go easily 19-0 on public and sometimes in clan games in 15 mins (most competitive games are over in 3-10 mins), and im nowhere near top marines in NS.
Basically like mu said, only hard to track thing is good lerk like phil, Macpersil or Sublime. Go watch some frag movies and you see what is possible.
However the subject is interesting, so lets keep on talking. Some suggestions for NS2 anti-cheating.
- Binary code "encoding" - On-the-fly file checksum calcuation with a random seed, there are hacked models currently available. - On-the-fly feature to upload screenshots to a HTTP host via PUT in the background. Even though this won't stop all hacks it'd stop a lot GPU settings abuse and would be both useful for public and competitive players (having external screenshot uploading is not a really good idea for public). - VAC support
There will never bee 100% client-side anti-cheating without something like OnLive.
I could also see the on the fly checksum mixed with it being a lovely deterant too.
I'm sure that there will be some other fancy ways too, but in the end it will always be a war of cheaters vs anti-cheat.
Best thing to do is keep the paranoia high on the admin side and keep people paranoid on your servers that someone IS watching and WILL act.
The places that cheats are most likely to be used are the places where an admin is never seen doing stuff, on a server where the admins play and are highly active people are less apt to cheat as it MASSIVLY boosts the chances of being caught.
Comments
That's why one of the solution (for example, to counter Wallhack), is that the server check the client side position, and determine wich player he can see or not.
If he can't see others players, the server just don't communicate the others players position.
(So even if he wall hack, he won't be able to see other people he's not supposed to see, because his even his CLIENT don't know it.)
To avoid cheat, when developping the game, you have to consider that no client can be trusted. Rechecking the client sent position and determine wether or not he can be here (relatively to his last known position). In order to avoid speedhack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easier solution:
Set sv_pure to 1 or 2.
<a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651553" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...ad.php?t=651553</a>
I suspect the type of cheating you are referring to is more due to lax server administration than a failure of VAC. As far as I can tell, Valve left certain anti-cheating protection up to server owners because they overlapped with legitimate pursuits (e.g. people wanting to use custom models can also be abused by cheaters via replacing wall textures with transparent materials). They came up with a prudent balance between security and flexibility IMO.
I dont see why a player would NEED to change something in the game.
Cuz if you dont that, you can have glowing green model that you can see everywhere etc... it sux.
Anyway back to cheating... since this game is indie you should have no problems creating sufficient anti-hack and game file check systems which are necessary to League play and a games true monetary worth to the community.
It's time a reign of cheaters was put to a stop. It is bad enough games allow people to cheat even whilst on LAN. Trust me I have personally thrown people out of LAN centers whom try to use usb driven cheats as soon as they plus their mouse or keyboard in, your network has a chance of being infected and is a huge problem in all of today's cafes. It is very hard to catch a cheater as such using small tiny moving head dots but I have been gaming since BNC so I usually know when someone is doing it and you have to be aware of all the known possible cheats. Shame on the server hosts and developers for promoting it.
P.S. OpenGL FTW
There's no reason those features can't be implemented. But to rely solely on them would easily be a death sentence to most servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1746995:date=Jan 12 2010, 11:49 PM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 12 2010, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1746995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually i think that customization like changing the models should not be permitted...
I dont see why a player would NEED to change something in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For fun?..
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 13 2010, 05:20 AM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 13 2010, 05:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If any of you knew how much money game companies make because of developers actually, purposefully putting loopholes or including hacks in the engines themselves you would see a pattern here like I do today in video games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So then, you do know how much they're making off of it. Well? Link or something?
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 13 2010, 05:20 AM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 13 2010, 05:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway back to cheating... since this game is indie you should have no problems creating sufficient anti-hack and game file check systems which are necessary to League play and a games true monetary worth to the community.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not with one or two programmers, no.
And only if they dont keep a whiny attitude like in some prequels.
there are ppl out there, who spent month of their live playing ns.
accept their skill, such ppl could have movement you could not even think of.
that is very important to a game, that you can SEPARATE yourself from all the others trough skill.
most ppl are skilled oldsql players and not cheaters!
if you want an easy game, go and play wow, their you can own with only a mouseclick 10 bot opponents,
but ppl could try to struggle!
:) Make a note people! Drunk mapping is bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's time a reign of cheaters was put to a stop. It is bad enough games allow people to cheat even whilst on LAN. Trust me I have personally thrown people out of LAN centers whom try to use usb driven cheats as soon as they plus their mouse or keyboard in, your network has a chance of being infected and is a huge problem in all of today's cafes. It is very hard to catch a cheater as such using small tiny moving head dots but I have been gaming since BNC so I usually know when someone is doing it and you have to be aware of all the known possible cheats. Shame on the server hosts and developers for promoting it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any decent cafe isn't really worried about viruses, and any decent cafe will also allow people to use flash drives all they want. Cheating isn't something you can program away, <b>it is a very human issue that is best handled by good administration practices</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1747051:date=Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM:name=darksidenactseit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darksidenactseit @ Jan 12 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->P.S. OpenGL FTW<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a C++ programmer who has to use OpenGL for a project of mine, I can see why anyone would not want to use OpenGL, primarily due to insane hardware support scenarios (ATI is notoriously bad at handling OpenGL for example). DirectX, while it maybe M$ (:rolleyes:) is very well thought out, efficient and well supported across all modern hardware.
Anyway, I repeat:
<b>Cheating is a human issue that cannot be programmed away. People are clever and will always find a way around any clientside protections, the best you can do is have a good blend of a well programmed clientside and a healthy administration on a dedicated server. Cheating protections like gameguard and punkbuster can introduce false positives, which in my mind are way worse than letting a cheater or two onto a server, since you risk denying potentially legitimate players.</b>
If you try too hard to control people, you end up with very clumsy and un-likeable mechanisms. Take DRM for example, it's almost more attractive for many people to pirate a game because it DOESN'T come preloaded with so much DRM nonsense.
Trashtalk NS1 all you want but updated half life 1 does a pretty good job at suppressing cheaters as elegantly as it can, and that may be something you just need to accept.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->NO TO THE NEWBIE SCRIPT<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
its 1 of the reason why i stopped playing ns1. bs fade flying everywhere and never touching the ground a single time in 5 min of playing and lerk flying 10x the normal speed ... its frustrating me so much.
i want all servers to use a script-blocker. i want that being implemented directly inside the game <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->by default<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
if you cant play the game the way creator make it then you SUCK. learn how to play a fps
edit :
oh and btw about the real cheating : if UnknownWorld is not stupid like nexon (combat arm) then it would probably be fine lol. at least i dont remember having seen a single cheater in ns1 except the &($/?$&( scripter who were EVERYWHERE
This is impossible. Script has been, and always will-be, available as a macro system in any OS, outside of the game.
The reason scripts exist are the beneficial to the player repetitive tasks that can be performed without human input: eliminate either component and you eliminate the need for scripting.
...scripts have nothing to do with either of those actions?
Poor boy I'm afraid that you entered random combat server with plugins like /xmenu and extra levels that obviously ruin the game. The one playing there are most likely people who think every good movement or aside from obvious is a script and play there for these add-ons are cool yet knowing they affect game more than scripts.
just to let u know guys im not noob lol ... i played all version of ns from the 1.0 i know its because of the script not because of a plug in ...
1.0 was the good old time ahhHHHHH i was loving the laser mine blocking all entrances aahhHHHHH and being a gorg with 3 hive hahaha was fun
we still dont need the people using script
we still dont need the people using script<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well what the people here are trying to say is that no matter how much you personally want it gone, not only are there legitimate uses for scripts, but people will figure out a way to automate those actions and gain slight advantages no matter what.
Also, WHAT THE ###### ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BLOCKSCRIPTING TEH GAME ISNT EVEN ALPHA zomg we don't even know for sure if we will have side client scripting as we have in NS1, it's like saying " I HOPE ON CO_FACEOFF THEY ADD A NEW VENT " wehn there is obviously no faceoff map nor combat mode. Srsly.
/thread
In all games, the script are use to make a succession of action in one click only.
exemple : <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t88497.html" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/lofive...php/t88497.html</a>
directly from the forum here after a search on google.
of course i whine about scripter. if u defend them and call me noob im sure its because ur using it and u SUX
(but chill down, baby)
They can be useful and practical in a few ways, but usually just end up being lame >.>
Now we can continue the thread wich is about cheating, not scripting.
exemple : <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t88497.html" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/lofive...php/t88497.html</a>
directly from the forum here after a search on google.
of course i whine about scripter. if u defend them and call me noob im sure its because ur using it and u SUX<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oke nice hehe
No srsly, how many years have you not played NS by now ? And how many seconds did you spend on scripting ? No offense but you just don't realize what scripts can or cannot do, therefore any arguments like "they shoot 10 times faster lulz thx script put bs1 pls" is just bs.
Really I can't realize why there are so many legends about scripts among pubbers ... I will end this sentence here or i would become offensive ok ¿?
end of offtopic
It is funny how the aim script and wallhob scripts have reached only pubbers ears, I so wish they would reach us competitive players aswell.
ps. Destrock you do realize that adding team_say medpack to your request is a script too? damned cheaters
Cheating is bad mmkay? But catching it can be exceptionally easy OR exceptionally hard.
Theres really no middleground from my experience admining. There are those who cheat and do it SO BLATANTLY that its like "Ok obvious, ban, thank you come again." and then theres the ones that use wallhack for example (which in NS you need wallhack? Really? Motion sense or scent of fear isn't good enough?) that get hard to dicern.
I got accused of cheating many a time when I would just stare into a wall once I had motion tracking, or upgraded Scent of Fear. Why? because now I could see through the wall effectivly.
Aimbots that are toggled quickly can be amazingly difficult also since if toggled right people can do things like an immediate spin to the target when they hear the click of a skulk...but the trick is skilled players can do that too.
Cheat detection is really something that takes a ton of time and really in the end unless its blatant you need basically an admin vote sorta to go "Ok do we all agree this is too fishy?" and take the leap of faith of the ban if you agree.
as for scripts, bleh.
I personally dislike scripting. I always thought myself more skilled and better at the game as a whole if I could compete with other players and I only used 1 action per bind.
Some people like their scripts and really thats how they want to play but I always felt binding multiple things to 1 key basically made you more reliant on the command series then on your own abilities and reflexes (ie: how fast you could push the button to do something).
Learning timing of bunnyhopping for example I found fun to be able to do it on my own without a script. Speed firing pistol by clicking like I was playing a freakin Megaman game, flying as a lerk or fading around. Those things I always felt had more meaning if you did them well by pushing the buttons.
I'd like at least the option for servers to enforce a 1 command per bind type deal if possible, but I will not expect it or look down on the game more for lacking it. Just continue to feel that I am better as a player for being able to play without setting up those special binds and such.
Basically like mu said, only hard to track thing is good lerk like phil, Macpersil or Sublime. Go watch some frag movies and you see what is possible.
However the subject is interesting, so lets keep on talking. Some suggestions for NS2 anti-cheating.
- Binary code "encoding"
- On-the-fly file checksum calcuation with a random seed, there are hacked models currently available.
- On-the-fly feature to upload screenshots to a HTTP host via PUT in the background. Even though this won't stop all hacks it'd stop a lot GPU settings abuse and would be both useful for public and competitive players (having external screenshot uploading is not a really good idea for public).
- VAC support
There will never bee 100% client-side anti-cheating without something like OnLive.
I could also see the on the fly checksum mixed with it being a lovely deterant too.
I'm sure that there will be some other fancy ways too, but in the end it will always be a war of cheaters vs anti-cheat.
Best thing to do is keep the paranoia high on the admin side and keep people paranoid on your servers that someone IS watching and WILL act.
The places that cheats are most likely to be used are the places where an admin is never seen doing stuff, on a server where the admins play and are highly active people are less apt to cheat as it MASSIVLY boosts the chances of being caught.