How clever can we make textures?
PsympleJester
Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Discussing the possibilities.</div>So I was wondering whilst making the control in my map...
Its full of empty black monitors.
I was wondering just how clever could we be with textures.
Obveously eventually I hope to have transparency so we can have windows and other such items.
But what about animated textures?
This is certainly possible in other games and although mind boggling I have attempted a few times.
But what about something more?
Would it be possible to have a "Camera" within the map which then relayed its image to a texture?
Like a security screen?
What about looping short video clips?
Im not asking this to be done or suggesting it.
Im just wondering if within the engine it would be possible?
Its full of empty black monitors.
I was wondering just how clever could we be with textures.
Obveously eventually I hope to have transparency so we can have windows and other such items.
But what about animated textures?
This is certainly possible in other games and although mind boggling I have attempted a few times.
But what about something more?
Would it be possible to have a "Camera" within the map which then relayed its image to a texture?
Like a security screen?
What about looping short video clips?
Im not asking this to be done or suggesting it.
Im just wondering if within the engine it would be possible?
Comments
Its full of empty black monitors.
I was wondering just how clever could we be with textures.
Obveously eventually I hope to have transparency so we can have windows and other such items.
But what about animated textures?
This is certainly possible in other games and although mind boggling I have attempted a few times.
But what about something more?
Would it be possible to have a "Camera" within the map which then relayed its image to a texture?
Like a security screen?
What about looping short video clips?
Im not asking this to be done or suggesting it.
Im just wondering if within the engine it would be possible?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Animated textures are probable because you need them for a lot of things, and render targets are also possible I suppose, depends if they're coded in.
Hopefully the scripting system will interface with textures somehow.
But flash textures have already been confirmed.
They are just not implemented yet (or maybe the files are just missing), that's why all monitors are black.
Will it be possible to do a reflection map?
It's been officially confirmed (I'd link to the devblog, but it's nightmare to search). Considering Flash 10 is GPU-accelerated, it shouldn't be much of an issue.. Say, I think Dawn of War 2 does that already.
<!--quoteo(post=1744614:date=Dec 22 2009, 05:17 PM:name=Racer1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racer1 @ Dec 22 2009, 05:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1744614"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about (partially) reflective textures?
Will it be possible to do a reflection map?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd really like to know that, too. Maybe we'll have cubemaps or something.
Will it be possible to do a reflection map?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
do you mean light reflective or mirror reflective, as in you can see geometry and models reflected in it? the first one yes (specular map in the anatomy of a scene post), second one would probably be hard to do.
Mirror reflective = BAD.
How many of you put water true reflection on games?
Well thats no where near perfect reflection.
If you wanted mirror reflection it would make game spec requirements go through the roof!
How many of you put water true reflection on games?
Well thats no where near perfect reflection.
If you wanted mirror reflection it would make game spec requirements go through the roof!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think hl1 could actually do it, I remember watching myself in some toilet i dropped into from some vents ;) but then again it didnt have that much to render anyway ;)
HEHE! I think it was a hack, not a proper reflective texture. What they do is create a window with a mirrored room behind it, and put a new model of yourself walking around mirroring your actions: gives the same effect of a mirror with less constraint on the engine than an actual mirror texture. Thats why there would only be things like this in small areas.
Duke Nukem 3D has it (well it is just sprites so not that hard to do :P)
Realtime lighting, highpoly models and effects times 2 due to reflection hurts cute puppies!
Noes...
World reflective surfaces = BAD...
Render a room with a table and chair in maya, and a mirror...
1 hour...
They are just not implemented yet (or maybe the files are just missing), that's why all monitors are black.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flash textures are implemented, they just don't show up in the editor yet. Those monitors have animated screens in the game though. They'll also show up in the Viewer application we included with the last patch.
Is this Flash 10?
"Error: (FlashTexture) failed to load ui/generic_terminalscreen_04.swf"
The Swf files were not included with the update or whenever the patch came out, so I can't see them. Is this intended or overlooked?
Noes...
World reflective surfaces = BAD...
Render a room with a table and chair in maya, and a mirror...
1 hour...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Either one is crap; your computer or maya..
lol !
lol !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really it just depends how many reflections you want to follow in ray tracking.
1 = quick but everything that reflects or is transparent is white.
100 looks amazing but your computer dies.
That's all a mirrored texture does as well. It just allows for the possibility of other geometry in the same space as the mirrored geometry. You only see the mirror geometry when looking through the mirror portal (it's surface).
It can be expensive because of the geometry duplication, especially if mirrors are dynamic (the mirrored surface can shift position), and it's a little dangerous, because if you have multiple reflectivity (a scene where one mirror can be seen from another mirror) you start to look at exponential geometry duplication, and there's really no way of making a GPU like that.
It can be expensive because of the geometry duplication, especially if mirrors are dynamic (the mirrored surface can shift position), and it's a little dangerous, because if you have multiple reflectivity (a scene where one mirror can be seen from another mirror) you start to look at exponential geometry duplication, and there's really no way of making a GPU like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know about 3D game engines.. but a "mirror" in a 3D rendering program isn't simply duplicating geometry.. hehe.
thats where ray tracing comes in :)
it can do infinite mirrors without increase load on the pc too much
Raytracing Isnt really performant. But the final image is the best.
And its not infinite, nothing is. It just a specified number, which increase the performances exponentially like antialiasing does.
It takes nearly no time for maya to render a reflection. Water does reflection yes.
The question was
"What about (partially) reflective textures? Will it be possible to do a reflection map? "
Well I can see it being put into the game easily enough. It would need a 8bit of texture (256 greyscale) and would take form as a alpha channel much like transparency. Probably what will happen is there can only be a reflection or a transparency but not both. Or located in a separate texture maybe. There is also a "lit" texture somewhere there too I assume, I have not looked into it yet.
1. I prefer textures which are really 3D and which have much more options/functions to make different textures
Point sizes, lines, curve functions, colour spectrusm bla bla. Please look at LightWave texture models for details.
There are some good examples.
2. Also a "quad texture" option would be nice which makes texture to symetric 4 combined textures.
<!--fonto:Courier New--><span style="font-family:Courier New"><!--/fonto-->
e.g.
AB
CD
is a texture which has no symetry and quad texture may be automaticaly converted by editor to :
AB | BA
CD | DC
----------
CD | DC
AB | BA
<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->
This is usefull for non symetric textures.
3. Combined texture models with functions would be nice. In example you have air and cloud models. Those clouds moves on
main air texure. Random Velocity and acceleration, shot/touch based , time depended texures on texure.
i.e. stars on darkness, bugs on floor, bubles in water, moving green gases in red gas
4. Physically affected textures: Burned corner, heated point (which is like done by a weapon used in HL1 but much more thermodynamic), touched (e.g water nearby player goes white while players moves in), crapped, oxidation etc.
5. On the other hand mirror is simple. Think mirror as a 2nd camera which looks from the otherside to the point normal to the player. Then put image on it which can be on it. Quake4 had mirror and HL2 had Magnifier.
main air texure. Random Velocity and acceleration, shot/touch based , time depended texures on texure.
i.e. stars on darkness, bugs on floor, bubles in water, moving green gases in red gas<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, that'd be awesome. Quake 3 had a very extensive shader functionality, that was pretty rad... You couldn't do the details like making gamestate affect them directly, but that'd also open up a ton of possibilities.
I suppose what it comes down to is: is such functionality planned to be part of the game itself?
<!--quoteo(post=1745404:date=Jan 2 2010, 04:58 AM:name=yimmasabi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yimmasabi @ Jan 2 2010, 04:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. Physically affected textures: Burned corner, heated point (which is like done by a weapon used in HL1 but much more thermodynamic), touched (e.g water nearby player goes white while players moves in), crapped, oxidation etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That'd be decals. I don't think it's possible for any modern engine to omit them.
In real world theory, it is impossible
In a crappy rendering simulation, it could be if the computer didn't run out of memory first
if the camera is perpendicular to two parallel mirrors, and the camera has no body to stop it...
the memory has an end, and is linked to the number of reflexion you will try to calculate.
i'm telling this , because i've done a "raytracer" in the past, and that's how we had to proceed.