aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited December 2009
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also found a way to make WMM to export in HD for Youtube, so it'll look better for the next one and I'll use the editor maximized.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very nice videos! That's completely different from how I make levels (entire room first, then details... I'm not very good). There is a spot around 1:30 (part 2) where it looks like your annotations overlap a little bit. Also some light, unobtrusive ambient music would be cool in each video like Jason used for that texturing video:
Also, I highly recommend using <a href="http://www.erightsoft.com/S6Kg1.html" target="_blank">SUPER</a> to encode your videos (scroll to bottom for d/l link). It's free and gives you a lot more control over what you convert it to, including HD (I encode all my videos in 1280x720 16:9 widescreen for HD). If you use it PM me with any questions I'm a pro with it :D.
Thanks for the comments, I'm working on part 3, I have a wall done and I'm thinking how to continue this room (I think this is the first big room I've done in spark).
About the music... I usually mute the videos like this because everyone likes their own music, so I didn't want to annoy anyone.
Wow, learned a bit there. Guess that explains why I've been getting all kinda of screw ups with the line tool ;P Isn't there any way to tell the editor to fuse vertices, lines, and faces? Also, looks like you were using a lot of keyboard shortcuts....mind listing all the ones you know that might not be immediately obvious?
<!--quoteo(post=1743604:date=Dec 12 2009, 11:51 AM:name=Karrde)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karrde @ Dec 12 2009, 11:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743604"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't there any way to tell the editor to fuse vertices, lines, and faces?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not yet, cross your fingers.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, looks like you were using a lot of keyboard shortcuts....mind listing all the ones you know that might not be immediately obvious?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The shortcuts are all listed in tools>settings. I found it helpful to reset the most common ones (move, line, scale, etc.) around the wasd keys for convenience.
Very nice videos, enjoyed them. It's a interesting approach to do a map. When you work like that - did you already have the overall layout of the room in your mind or did it pop up while working?
I would really appreciate a video where you do some lightning (this is the most complicated part for me)
I don't plan much while working (I don't know how the room is going to look), maybe an overall idea of the size. I come up with the initial piece (the terminal in this case), then get ideas for the overall look/layout for the room conditioned with that first part of the map.
The lighting part will be done, eventually, I plan on releasing videos until I finish this room.
<!--quoteo(post=1743818:date=Dec 14 2009, 04:35 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 14 2009, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you actually plan it out beforehand or do you do what I do and just work from one end to the other until you're finished?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think I know of a way for you to get an answer to this question without even having to post. Hint: it's in this thread somewhere. Right before your post in fact.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
Your work technique is very inspiring.
I usually sketch out the room and them carve details in, but it gives an inconsistent feel to the work, and I have to go back at it until I'm happy. You just get everything "final" as you go.
I answered before but I'm gonna expand on it a little bit.
Depends on what you call planning. When I started with this room in particular, I only had the idea for the trims, initial floor shape and the terminal. No idea on room size or layout.
I work in little pieces, for example, this last video was 4 videos in different days, one for the "alcove" (which I still have to detail at some point), one for the wall, then another one for the turn and railings, and lastly the door/pipes behind the grate. I don't know how it's gonna end up when I'm doing this, I just concentrate on the part I'm working on (that gives me ideas for the next areas sometimes).
I do have a goal in mind when the room starts taking shape, for example, now I have ideas to add some supports, ceiling above the door, and the hole I left between the upper and lower floors. I didn't have a plan when I started the room (I just wanted to make that floor with the trims and the terminal!), but you could say I have a plan now.
It's another way of coming up with a map, I guess.
<!--quoteo(post=1743824:date=Dec 14 2009, 09:53 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ Dec 14 2009, 09:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think I know of a way for you to get an answer to this question without even having to post. Hint: it's in this thread somewhere. Right before your post in fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that he isn't blocking it out in-editor doesn't mean it isn't planned carefully.
<!--quoteo(post=1743833:date=Dec 14 2009, 10:33 PM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Dec 14 2009, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I answered before but I'm gonna expand on it a little bit.
Depends on what you call planning. When I started with this room in particular, I only had the idea for the trims, initial floor shape and the terminal. No idea on room size or layout.
I work in little pieces, for example, this last video was 4 videos in different days, one for the "alcove" (which I still have to detail at some point), one for the wall, then another one for the turn and railings, and lastly the door/pipes behind the grate. I don't know how it's gonna end up when I'm doing this, I just concentrate on the part I'm working on (that gives me ideas for the next areas sometimes).
I do have a goal in mind when the room starts taking shape, for example, now I have ideas to add some supports, ceiling above the door, and the hole I left between the upper and lower floors. I didn't have a plan when I started the room (I just wanted to make that floor with the trims and the terminal!), but you could say I have a plan now.
It's another way of coming up with a map, I guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm that's more or less how I do it as well, rooms are defined by the gameplay function and the shape just goes around that, and is further defined by the engineering needs of the room's theme. Like if I need a room with a wide open centre I might make an elevator room and an elevator room would have to have no support in the middle because the elevator goes there and so I'd have to put supports around the elevator, and also railings to stop people falling in when the shaft is open.
I think it's a good way of doing it, it just tends to look a bit balls in source, although that's probably due to source being six years old more than anything.
Now that is a handy trick. Also works nicely for more complex geometry, though be wary of distortions.
Side note: Spark makes me re-center the trim textures once I flatten it. In your video it looks like it "just works" while for some reason for me while I move between snaps, the textures scroll. Odd, but manageable.
It appears that the way the world is put together in this engine is with 2D planes... Interesting. Sort of how I put together my worlds in Hammer, but this looks like it'd be simpler. Looking forward to trying it.
EDIT: Posted this while watching part one, now into part three. I'm tempted to get this game just to mess with the editor. It looks wonderful. I'm not too crazy about doing all the moving from the 3D view, but that looks optional and looks like it actually works well. The whole thing looks like an upgraded hammer.
Either trim is something prominent in NS2, or it's something you just enjoy doing. I really have a thing for trim, too, and all my maps incorporate it, but HL2 and L4D just don't have many trim textures. Looks like NS2 will, though. :)
I love trims, they help me establish a theme of sorts through the map. NS1 had lots of them (and parts of textures that worked as trims, too!), so it's only natural that NS2 has them too :D
I still sort of miss Hammer, though, specially geometry clipping for multiple objects.
<!--quoteo(post=1754755:date=Feb 23 2010, 11:31 AM:name=Mr_Charisma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr_Charisma @ Feb 23 2010, 11:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1754755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I enjoyed your use of the <i>rotate</i> functionality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was a sexual innuendo wasn't it? :P
But yeah i love trims as well. Don't think i could create a decent looking map without em.
Trim is great. Best thing about it is you can use it to separate textures and eliminate having to worry about complicated texture alignments. If you do them right, they enhance the look of the map greatly. Plus, they're fun to put in. I'm tempted to pre-order the game just to fool with the editor...but I've been burned by pre-orders too many times (actually, every time. AVP3 is the latest. Should have known better), and I wont be able to load the maps up to see them, either. :(
I'm doing the lighting for the next part of the videos, and since I always try stuff before recording it to video to spare you the horror of watching me spend hours trying stuff (I also improvise some stuff sometimes), I thought I'd post the WIP pictures of what I'm working on.
I'm gonna post all the pics I have from WIPs (there's one from the last video).
I have it recorded up until the last screenshot, and this is how it's looking right now (so, not recorded) <img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip6.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Since I was testing lighting I didn't really put trims or anything for the lights, just the props, so that might change if I stay with this "design". What do you think?
Comments
Very nice videos! That's completely different from how I make levels (entire room first, then details... I'm not very good). There is a spot around 1:30 (part 2) where it looks like your annotations overlap a little bit. Also some light, unobtrusive ambient music would be cool in each video like Jason used for that texturing video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ggR56wVtVc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ggR56wVtVc</a>
Also, I highly recommend using <a href="http://www.erightsoft.com/S6Kg1.html" target="_blank">SUPER</a> to encode your videos (scroll to bottom for d/l link). It's free and gives you a lot more control over what you convert it to, including HD (I encode all my videos in 1280x720 16:9 widescreen for HD). If you use it PM me with any questions I'm a pro with it :D.
Keep 'em coming!
About the music... I usually mute the videos like this because everyone likes their own music, so I didn't want to annoy anyone.
Not yet, cross your fingers.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, looks like you were using a lot of keyboard shortcuts....mind listing all the ones you know that might not be immediately obvious?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shortcuts are all listed in tools>settings. I found it helpful to reset the most common ones (move, line, scale, etc.) around the wasd keys for convenience.
It's a interesting approach to do a map. When you work like that - did you already have the overall layout of the room in your mind or did it pop up while working?
I would really appreciate a video where you do some lightning (this is the most complicated part for me)
The lighting part will be done, eventually, I plan on releasing videos until I finish this room.
Next one is ceiling/supports and I'll hopefully get the room done soon so I can start on the lighting.
I think I know of a way for you to get an answer to this question without even having to post. Hint: it's in this thread somewhere. Right before your post in fact.
I usually sketch out the room and them carve details in, but it gives an inconsistent feel to the work, and I have to go back at it until I'm happy. You just get everything "final" as you go.
Depends on what you call planning. When I started with this room in particular, I only had the idea for the trims, initial floor shape and the terminal. No idea on room size or layout.
I work in little pieces, for example, this last video was 4 videos in different days, one for the "alcove" (which I still have to detail at some point), one for the wall, then another one for the turn and railings, and lastly the door/pipes behind the grate. I don't know how it's gonna end up when I'm doing this, I just concentrate on the part I'm working on (that gives me ideas for the next areas sometimes).
I do have a goal in mind when the room starts taking shape, for example, now I have ideas to add some supports, ceiling above the door, and the hole I left between the upper and lower floors. I didn't have a plan when I started the room (I just wanted to make that floor with the trims and the terminal!), but you could say I have a plan now.
It's another way of coming up with a map, I guess.
The fact that he isn't blocking it out in-editor doesn't mean it isn't planned carefully.
<!--quoteo(post=1743833:date=Dec 14 2009, 10:33 PM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Dec 14 2009, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I answered before but I'm gonna expand on it a little bit.
Depends on what you call planning. When I started with this room in particular, I only had the idea for the trims, initial floor shape and the terminal. No idea on room size or layout.
I work in little pieces, for example, this last video was 4 videos in different days, one for the "alcove" (which I still have to detail at some point), one for the wall, then another one for the turn and railings, and lastly the door/pipes behind the grate. I don't know how it's gonna end up when I'm doing this, I just concentrate on the part I'm working on (that gives me ideas for the next areas sometimes).
I do have a goal in mind when the room starts taking shape, for example, now I have ideas to add some supports, ceiling above the door, and the hole I left between the upper and lower floors. I didn't have a plan when I started the room (I just wanted to make that floor with the trims and the terminal!), but you could say I have a plan now.
It's another way of coming up with a map, I guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm that's more or less how I do it as well, rooms are defined by the gameplay function and the shape just goes around that, and is further defined by the engineering needs of the room's theme. Like if I need a room with a wide open centre I might make an elevator room and an elevator room would have to have no support in the middle because the elevator goes there and so I'd have to put supports around the elevator, and also railings to stop people falling in when the shaft is open.
I think it's a good way of doing it, it just tends to look a bit balls in source, although that's probably due to source being six years old more than anything.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86FEDJgultQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86FEDJgultQ</a>
Side note: Spark makes me re-center the trim textures once I flatten it. In your video it looks like it "just works" while for some reason for me while I move between snaps, the textures scroll. Odd, but manageable.
<a href="http://img29.imageshack.us/i/sparktest4.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7738/sparktest4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Interesting. Sort of how I put together my worlds in Hammer, but this looks like it'd be simpler. Looking forward to trying it.
EDIT: Posted this while watching part one, now into part three.
I'm tempted to get this game just to mess with the editor. It looks wonderful. I'm not too crazy about doing all the moving from the 3D view, but that looks optional and looks like it actually works well.
The whole thing looks like an upgraded hammer.
Either trim is something prominent in NS2, or it's something you just enjoy doing. I really have a thing for trim, too, and all my maps incorporate it, but HL2 and L4D just don't have many trim textures. Looks like NS2 will, though. :)
I still sort of miss Hammer, though, specially geometry clipping for multiple objects.
That was a sexual innuendo wasn't it? :P
But yeah i love trims as well. Don't think i could create a decent looking map without em.
If you do them right, they enhance the look of the map greatly. Plus, they're fun to put in.
I'm tempted to pre-order the game just to fool with the editor...but I've been burned by pre-orders too many times (actually, every time. AVP3 is the latest. Should have known better), and I wont be able to load the maps up to see them, either. :(
I'm gonna post all the pics I have from WIPs (there's one from the last video).
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I have it recorded up until the last screenshot, and this is how it's looking right now (so, not recorded)
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip6.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Since I was testing lighting I didn't really put trims or anything for the lights, just the props, so that might change if I stay with this "design".
What do you think?