Unnecessary edges/vertices/faces?

LoeyLoey Join Date: 2009-10-31 Member: 69187Members
in NS2 General Discussion
<a href="http://img339.imageshack.us/i/example1j.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8114/example1j.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Reference the red circles in the picture highlighting vertices and edges, is it fine to leave these here or will they eventually effect performance because they've split what could have been single faces into 3 faces?

<a href="http://img207.imageshack.us/i/example2o.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8234/example2o.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
In this picture, ive removed the edges but left the vertices. The walls, floor and ceiling are all 1 face now, but they are made up of more than 4 edges. Once again will this have any effect on performance?

Personally i remove all the edges, vertices and faces i can however i'm interested in what everyone else is doing.
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Comments

  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Since there's no rendering done for them, I suppose it's a reasonable assumption that they won't affect performance..
    I usually delete any loose ends anyway, just in case. Plus tidiness.
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  • ScalionScalion Join Date: 2009-01-10 Member: 66036Members
    Im waiting Max to make a button call "Clean up all floating vertex".
    pressure, pressure.
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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1742678:date=Dec 6 2009, 11:08 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 6 2009, 11:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742678"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since there's no rendering done for them, I suppose it's a reasonable assumption that they won't affect performance..
    I usually delete any loose ends anyway, just in case. Plus tidiness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There's no rendering done for them? They're extra triangles!
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  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Lines aren't triangles...
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  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    edited December 2009
    I'm thinking it's one of the things that Max was referring to when he said that there was information the editor needed but the engine didn't.
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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1742718:date=Dec 6 2009, 02:27 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 6 2009, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742718"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lines aren't triangles...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But the lines divide the faces into smaller faces. Each rectangle is made of 2 tris.
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  • edkrstedkrst Join Date: 2009-09-11 Member: 68748Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1742679:date=Dec 6 2009, 11:13 AM:name=Scalion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scalion @ Dec 6 2009, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742679"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im waiting Max to make a button call "Clean up all floating vertex".
    pressure, pressure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    really need that button! Deleting extra vertices wastes a lot of time.
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  • noncomposmentisnoncomposmentis Join Date: 2004-11-13 Member: 32773Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1742746:date=Dec 6 2009, 04:18 PM:name=edkrst)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(edkrst @ Dec 6 2009, 04:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->really need that button! Deleting extra vertices wastes a lot of time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And it's impossible if the extra vertex is on a face you want to keep.
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  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members
    Still I really think we need a weld vertices function and I'm sure Max is going to be adding it sooner or later.

    Consider the dynamic infestation, it will probably prefer all it's faces in a map to be joined into a single "model" sort to say, when it reaches a wall and is meant to creep up it instead of bleeding out inte the void as the the two parallel lines aren't connected to each other.
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  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited December 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1742743:date=Dec 7 2009, 12:02 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Dec 7 2009, 12:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But the lines divide the faces into smaller faces. Each rectangle is made of 2 tris.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, if they're on a face. Lines by themselves is what I was talking about.

    EDIT: Crap, I just realized I forgot to edit my first post earlier. I was going to amend it saying pretty much the above; lines on faces do indeed cause more triangles. But you may want them if you're changing the shape of the walls, so I hope they're careful with things like deleting all unused lines. On the other hand, the left-over vertices really need to be easily removable.

    Though, I doubt geometry detail is going to cause noticeable slowdown in the final product, since NS rooms are relatively small by modern standards. If you have lots of windows or some other construct that prevents culling, then yeah...
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  • noncomposmentisnoncomposmentis Join Date: 2004-11-13 Member: 32773Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1742849:date=Dec 7 2009, 08:22 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 7 2009, 08:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Though, I doubt geometry detail is going to cause noticeable slowdown in the final product, since NS rooms are relatively small by modern standards. If you have lots of windows or some other construct that prevents culling, then yeah...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You could test it in the editor. There's no culling in it currently, so spam a bunch of rectangles and see when you get slowdown. My guess: effectively never. I have a file with three detailed rooms with no slowdown even when I'm zoomed out to see all three, until I turn on lighting--which is, I'm guessing, a more major resource hog by far than geometry.
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  • LoeyLoey Join Date: 2009-10-31 Member: 69187Members
    how do the triangles work exactly? im guessing fewer triangles is meant to be better.
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  • WatchMakerWatchMaker Join Date: 2003-09-26 Member: 21233Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1742966:date=Dec 8 2009, 01:33 AM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loey @ Dec 8 2009, 01:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742966"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how do the triangles work exactly? im guessing fewer triangles is meant to be better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, this what all 3d rendering is based off of. The more triangles, the more work the computer does.
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  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    I am currently loving and hating Spark.
    Im using Maya for my degree which does have quite alot of flaws...
    But Spark...
    Omg its like working with wooden tools its amazing!!!
    So primitive...
    But it really does need combine and merge vertecies and stuff...

    The amount of times you have to make duplicate edges and vertecies just to get faces to work due to you having a square of vertecies but all 4 being on seperate meshes is ridiculus...
    Very inefficient...

    Cool though comparing it to the massive company made maya is fascinating.
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