Marine HUD mode, motion tracking vision mode. Alien stuff too.
Temphage
Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The "I really need to start my job again" thread.</div>There's but one thing in any game that makes me absolutely giddy, and that's when a game changes up how you perceive the game world. Mostly vision modes (and not the boring thermal and night vision cliches), but even things like a realistic HUD that actually appears to be something you're WEARING (and not just .pngs glued in place on your screen) or perhaps changes in how you hear. So whatever - these things are cool, right? So I was bored in the last couple hours I made up a few mockups for possible marine HUD implementation as well as how I think Motion Tracking should be done.
First up, what I just call "Strategic Mode". There's a lot of good stuff on it!
<img src="http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2374/marinehudstrategic.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The HUD itself is modeled after the visor shape visible in the concept art shots - it's a narrow band of blue that all your stuff is contained within. Thus why it looks as it does, part of what I mentioned about a 'realistic looking HUD'. Of course, it's not without mistakes - for one, everything is 'large', I was trying to keep the overall size of the picture itself small. But whatever, things can be scaled. Anyway, the HUD has as near I can tell just about everything a marine would be happy to have. Given the modular upgrade method of teammates, I decided it would be useful to have a Frontiersman Data Link (FDL) system to help them out. It gives you the ability to instantly assess who they are, their status, and their upgrades. In addition, to reflect the popularity of the laser sight mods of NS1 (which just as quickly became unpopular as they hurt marines, since there was really no way to make them only visible to marines), you get a handy-dandy teammate aim indicator as well. Completely invisible to aliens, for your viewing pleasure.
On the left there is the basic 'team info' window which is pretty self-explanatory. Beneath that is the voice comm network display and, beneath that, a representation of the quick-key voice command window (it only is displayed when activated). More info on those can be found <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107801" target="_blank">here</a>. On the right is the minimap. Which in all versions of the HUD, should always look suspiciously like ns_nothing :). Line-of-sight data is available as well. And with that, your current location with a game timer. Finally in the middle of the screen is a series of 'follow-me' arrows that lead you in the direction of your waypoint. How easy could it be?
Now I know what you're saying, that's too damn much information. Personally I'd find this easily playable with maybe some tweaks here and there (specifically the size of obviousness of the FDL boxes). Well that's why that was only the STRATEGIC view. It gives you lots of great information, but all military computers come with a 'declutter' button to wipe up all the crap and provide only what you ABSOLUTELY NEED.
Thus, the "Tactical Mode".
<img src="http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/871/marinehudtactical.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Well look at that. Everything extraneous is gone - it's about as basic as you could want without getting rid of the tiny bits of HUD eyecandy altogether. So basically, you toggle between the two modes as the situation demands. If you find it playable in Strategic mode, by all means, go for it. If you're expecting to get jumped by skulks at any moment, you pop in to Tactical.
Finally, as promised, my Motion Tracking vision mode concept.
<img src="http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6434/marinemotionhud2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think it should be pretty self-explanatory. When things move, it's PAINFULLY obvious that they are moving, as in even in pitch black areas, or if even a nose pokes out of a vent for even a fraction of a split ###### second, you see it - cloaked or not. The downside to this is that it becomes pretty difficult to engage much that ISN'T moving. Additionally, for purposes of feedback to the alien team, I can see it being perfectly reasonable for any marine in motion tracking vision mode to have his red visor visible on his model.
Now that I'm laying fresh eyes on it again, I see that I overdid it on the 'hard to see' aspect - a consequence of me looking side-by-side at the 'normal' image and the shopped one. I specifically wanted to make it hard to see the skulk on the top, but you can't see a damn thing. But regardless, point is still made. Ultimately this isn't a great example in the screenshot as the 'normal' view is pretty well-lit, but I like to think that NS2 maps will feature a variety of environs, and that in less obvious locales, such a vision mode would certainly come in handy. I still think it needs work, this is just photoshop bull######tery after all - far more convincing effects could be achieved in-game.
Ultimately with a slightly 'more visible' motion tracking mode, I still don't think it'd be terribly useful, but I was at a loss at the time as to how to make people want to have the tradeoff. Perhaps limited motion detection in a proximity as well just to alert the marine? Unsure.
Also in hindsight I probably should've removed the NS2 logo from the top right.
Anyway I lied, there's no alien stuff yet. So ###### it, there you go.
EDIT: Fixed the second pic, - imageshack server went down.
First up, what I just call "Strategic Mode". There's a lot of good stuff on it!
<img src="http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2374/marinehudstrategic.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The HUD itself is modeled after the visor shape visible in the concept art shots - it's a narrow band of blue that all your stuff is contained within. Thus why it looks as it does, part of what I mentioned about a 'realistic looking HUD'. Of course, it's not without mistakes - for one, everything is 'large', I was trying to keep the overall size of the picture itself small. But whatever, things can be scaled. Anyway, the HUD has as near I can tell just about everything a marine would be happy to have. Given the modular upgrade method of teammates, I decided it would be useful to have a Frontiersman Data Link (FDL) system to help them out. It gives you the ability to instantly assess who they are, their status, and their upgrades. In addition, to reflect the popularity of the laser sight mods of NS1 (which just as quickly became unpopular as they hurt marines, since there was really no way to make them only visible to marines), you get a handy-dandy teammate aim indicator as well. Completely invisible to aliens, for your viewing pleasure.
On the left there is the basic 'team info' window which is pretty self-explanatory. Beneath that is the voice comm network display and, beneath that, a representation of the quick-key voice command window (it only is displayed when activated). More info on those can be found <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107801" target="_blank">here</a>. On the right is the minimap. Which in all versions of the HUD, should always look suspiciously like ns_nothing :). Line-of-sight data is available as well. And with that, your current location with a game timer. Finally in the middle of the screen is a series of 'follow-me' arrows that lead you in the direction of your waypoint. How easy could it be?
Now I know what you're saying, that's too damn much information. Personally I'd find this easily playable with maybe some tweaks here and there (specifically the size of obviousness of the FDL boxes). Well that's why that was only the STRATEGIC view. It gives you lots of great information, but all military computers come with a 'declutter' button to wipe up all the crap and provide only what you ABSOLUTELY NEED.
Thus, the "Tactical Mode".
<img src="http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/871/marinehudtactical.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Well look at that. Everything extraneous is gone - it's about as basic as you could want without getting rid of the tiny bits of HUD eyecandy altogether. So basically, you toggle between the two modes as the situation demands. If you find it playable in Strategic mode, by all means, go for it. If you're expecting to get jumped by skulks at any moment, you pop in to Tactical.
Finally, as promised, my Motion Tracking vision mode concept.
<img src="http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6434/marinemotionhud2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think it should be pretty self-explanatory. When things move, it's PAINFULLY obvious that they are moving, as in even in pitch black areas, or if even a nose pokes out of a vent for even a fraction of a split ###### second, you see it - cloaked or not. The downside to this is that it becomes pretty difficult to engage much that ISN'T moving. Additionally, for purposes of feedback to the alien team, I can see it being perfectly reasonable for any marine in motion tracking vision mode to have his red visor visible on his model.
Now that I'm laying fresh eyes on it again, I see that I overdid it on the 'hard to see' aspect - a consequence of me looking side-by-side at the 'normal' image and the shopped one. I specifically wanted to make it hard to see the skulk on the top, but you can't see a damn thing. But regardless, point is still made. Ultimately this isn't a great example in the screenshot as the 'normal' view is pretty well-lit, but I like to think that NS2 maps will feature a variety of environs, and that in less obvious locales, such a vision mode would certainly come in handy. I still think it needs work, this is just photoshop bull######tery after all - far more convincing effects could be achieved in-game.
Ultimately with a slightly 'more visible' motion tracking mode, I still don't think it'd be terribly useful, but I was at a loss at the time as to how to make people want to have the tradeoff. Perhaps limited motion detection in a proximity as well just to alert the marine? Unsure.
Also in hindsight I probably should've removed the NS2 logo from the top right.
Anyway I lied, there's no alien stuff yet. So ###### it, there you go.
EDIT: Fixed the second pic, - imageshack server went down.
Comments
The Motion Tracking mode reminds me of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory's multiplayer when playing as a MERC.
Edit: The Motion Tracking vision would have to be like some kind of super upgrade or something because of the already put motion tracking.
Bad Idea. Cloak needs to hide you from MT, no matter what.
I would agree that cloak needs to be hard to counter, it shouldn't be beaten by just a passive ability, but I would suggest some way of beating it.
This sort of motion tracking would be a bit too powerful against it, but some sort of anti cloak flashlight or periodic ping which gives you intermittant ideas about where an alien is would be neccesary.
The hud looks farily standard tbh, although I'd prefer the 'tactical' mode as I really don't want to play with all that useless crap on the screen.
The motion tracking mode looks ugly as sin and I can't imagine it being any use, all it does is make it look really bad and put giant boxes over everything.
For motion tracking I would suggest imposing some sort of movement penalty, or firepower penalty, maybe make it so you can only use it with the pistol, like there's some box you have to hold or something, this is a bit aliens I realise but it's a good system, it gives you increased visibility but means you need to use that bonus to avoid being surprised or you'll find it hard to survive. Or in the case of a movement penalty, it naturally compliments the cautious approach of moving slowly by giving you greater spotting ability. If you have that sort of drawback then you can just make it so that aliens which move show up bright on the hud and the faster they move the brighter they show up.
I just hope this wont happen in NS2
Also, HP/armor and ammo counts should be visible to your team mates at all times, at least through little icons.
Maybe I'll prepare some gifs for that.
The Motion Tracking mode reminds me of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory's multiplayer when playing as a MERC.
Edit: The Motion Tracking vision would have to be like some kind of super upgrade or something because of the already put motion tracking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather see cloaking and motion tracking revamped than bear any similarity to the broken mechanics of NS1. Observatories, the wallhack motion tracking that made skulks obsolete...
The mechanic here is more a means to DEFEAT cloaking than to give marines a ridiculously imbalanced advantage. And cloaking defeating motion tracking is just silly. Easier to justify celerity making aliens immune to explosions.
In NS1, aliens were far less flexible in terms of upgrades than marines. If you used cloaking to counter motion tracking, and you already have a D and M dedicated hive, well, you're screwed. Nothing about marines locks them out of techs like aliens, and therefore it is far more balanced for marine techs to be counters to aliens rather than vice versa. That's not to say it should always be the case, but when you have to rely on sensory chambers to defeat the most imbalanced upgrade in the game, you've suddenly made it as mandatory as Defense chambers were in 1.04.
It's kind of interesting and a better approach than a build-in wallhack.
What I actually like best about all your suggestions are the 'follow-me' arrows. This would so easily improve teamplay by giving you a clear indication where your commander wants you to go, or where you should go to reunite with your squad. However, I would prefer a straight line instead of arrows (dead space style).
How about a straight line AND arrows?
I think a guide like that could really help new players too so they know where to go.
I really like your first two concept pieces, but your 3rd piece for motion tracking is utterly horrible as you've said.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you can't see a damn thing. But regardless, point is still made......The downside to this is that it becomes pretty difficult to engage much that ISN'T moving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why should there be a downside to MT again? If you try to enforce some silly trade off system like this you'll just have the good players constantly switching between the modes, maybe even making a macro to do it for them. That sounds annoying to me. The "downside" to "motion tracking" is that it doesn't track aliens if they don't move. That's enough of a downside.
/edit:
In rebuttal to your "I don't want it like it was in NS1" argument I'd say that MT, assuming it's in NS2, is probably a 3rd tier technology. If the marines can lock down three command/tech points they deserve NS1-style MT. A powerful tier 3 ability shouldn't have such a significant downside, if any downside at all.
It's kind of interesting and a better approach than a build-in wallhack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs9vOLiqvBI" target="_blank">Video version of nightvision, motion-vision, and thermal.</a>
Either a front/rear display, or two displays, on each shoulder.
For health: A glowing (for other Marines) bar (longer than ammo) The bar reduces in length as the marine takes damage (as one might expect). Also, it should have a glowing top, so you can tell when someone has taken damage. As far as color, green at 75%-100%, yellow 75%-50%, and red under that... Wait, can aliens see health? I thought they could see wounded, but it's been AGES since I played NS1. If aliens aren't privy to human health data that the bar conveys, the bars could be shaded in-HUD for marines only.
And for ammo, just a glowing blue-ish bar representing shots left in equipped weapon. Maybe have it flash the the player is reloading, or put it on the side of the weapon as well.
As far as visibility, perhaps the bars could NOT actually glow, but just have the glow added via Marine HUD. That would stick out less. Most of this is just art and engine, but I think the basic concept is fairly sound, as long as it's balanced. It can glow/not glow/be HUD as needed, no need to trash the entire idea because people don't want marines to have glowy bits on them as seen by aliens.
I'd rather have a 2D hud that draws brackets around the teammate. You don't need to worry about chance viewing angles making it hard to see the information.
But nearly <i>everything</i> uses it. Games DO get some points for semi-originality, and not forcing everyone to use bog-standard HUDs is <i>original</i>. Or at least not <i>as</i> common as HUDs.
I'm not saying that there SHOULDN'T be health indicators on HUDs, it's certainly a good option. But as Dead Space illustrated to me, it's a HELL of a lot more immersive if the ingame menus and health indicators are NOT plastered onto the HUD, but instead occur in 3d in front of your character. Perhaps a rear health/ammo indicator might help visibility.
Another example: Killing Floor- no crosshair. Most games have crosshairs, they're in nearly everything. A chunk of the challenge of KF is that it makes you use iron sights for semi-reliable headshots. It's <i>fun</i> to nail 3 guys in the noggin in a row with an unzoomed M14EBR with the laser sight off.
So in short:
Yes. You certainly can have health bars and brackets on HUDs. But it'd be cool to have armor-based health indicators.
...Heck, it could even be a gameplay element, have something that screws with HUDs and automatic systems. Ancient game: Freespace 2, was a flight sim in space. And in this set of nebula missions, the navigation system was spotty and the auto-aimer was useless. So you had to shoot things MANUALLY and it was actually really fun. For one level at least, if it's used too often it becomes annoying.
<img src="http://s5.directupload.net/images/091211/siq4l7gt.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://s5.directupload.net/images/091211/siq4l7gt.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats way to much optical noise, heck, the voice communication icon above the head is already a bit to much. i say some kind of sidebar with icons of your squadmates with that info you mentioned which you can turn on and off is good enough.. all those fancy dynamic hud overlays just clutter up the fancy graphics and make it look like some cheap arcade game
Things you can't generally tell are:
<ul><li>Names</li><li>Voice usage (when it's non-directional)</li><li>Health (when visible-damage on armor isn't reliable or discernible from a distance.)</li></ul>
I realize that six marines in front of you make it hard to see anything, but its only a suggestion anyway.
Also, ammocount IS necessary in my eyes for an organized frogleaping.
i got my squad of average skilled people to use that tactic just for ###### and giggles, and nothing short of fade or onos would be able to oppose us.
'Course, my absolute favorite would be to have "team local" voice where your comments come from your character's position in the 3D world. "Hold up, need to reload", and you can tell it's the marine on your left in front of you.
IMO that kind of team communication should be part of the stock features. It's not like, say, a really elaborate team balancer. Or "M-m-m-monsterkill!" sound effects on certain events.
I realize that six marines in front of you make it hard to see anything, but its only a suggestion anyway.
Also, ammocount IS necessary in my eyes for an organized frogleaping.
i got my squad of average skilled people to use that tactic just for ###### and giggles, and nothing short of fade or onos would be able to oppose us.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pubstar?
IMO that kind of team communication should be part of the stock features. It's not like, say, a really elaborate team balancer. Or "M-m-m-monsterkill!" sound effects on certain events.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the custom hud suggestions and team communications - you can't make everyone happy. NS2 will probably pick one set way to do it, and allow you to jump into LUA and enhance it. Don't hype yourself up on all these expectations.
<a href="http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2374/marinehudstrategic.jpg" target="_blank">http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2374/marinehudstrategic.jpg</a>
<a href="http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/871/marinehudtactical.jpg" target="_blank">http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/871/marinehudtactical.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108324" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=108324</a>
You ruined both threads :D