Mapping Guidelines

kingmob

<div class="IPBDescription">Did i miss them...</div>Is it going to be three hives again?

Are there going to be ready rooms?

Can we see a crappy map that is sized right?
just a generic map with all the necessities. no texturing.
just to get the general size.

until then its just experimentation.
a good map will require some planning.

BTW nifty editor so far.

TychoCelchuuu

Right now we just have the alpha version of the editor to find bugs, learn how to use it, and so on. Actual mapping will come later in the process.

NeXuZ

<!--quoteo(post=1741508:date=Nov 29 2009, 06:51 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 29 2009, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741508"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now we just have the alpha version of the editor to find bugs, learn how to use it, and so on. Actual mapping will come later in the process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

indeed, and all the new features that are in NS2.

Then again it's a Pre-Alpha tool, so loads of bugs, errors, crashes etc. But they where quick to updated it!.

Crispix

In terms of the gameplay mapping guidelines, all that is really known is that there are specific areas called tech points where your hive or Command Station is located at. If you occupy this with a resource tower (Marines), you have power to that room, and all connecting rooms with resource towers built in them. If you occupy 2 Tech Point rooms (multiple command stations/also giving you the ability to have a second commander) you gain access to more technology upgrades, etc. 3rd Tech Point I believe gives you full access to all upgrades, just as it were in NS1 with 3 hives. The same I believe is for the alien team in NS2, but Aliens aren't on a power grid. Their system is the Dynamic Infestation, and no one really knows for sure how it works. The only thing that was mentioned a lonnnng time ago was having tunneling systems for aliens to use to get from one room to another with a connecting entrance and exit, like nydus canals in Star Craft.

Best thing to do is treat the level editor as a tech release, and think of ideas of how to make your level visually appealing. Once the guidelines are released, then everyone is safe to go ahead and begin mapping out their levels.

edkrst

This is a NS2 map in progress. The red boxes are tech points; the purple circles are RTs. Each section (e.g. the orange section) is powered on by obtaining the RT and linking up with a CC.


<img src="http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/337/ns2powergridnumbered.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

culprit

This is the map I've been looking at to draw ideas for layout from. The other main layout option is 1-3 weldable doors that can be opened by Onos. Once we know how the infestation gameplay will work, these ideas can be fleshed out better. I'm also wondering if there will be maps if fewer or greater tech points and RTs. 6 tech points are required for both teams to reach highest tier tech, but I'm guessing RT #'s will be more fluid depending on the map design. They've siad maps should be mostly large rooms (6-9). Lot's to consider in your mapping planning!

kingmob

thank you

now edkrst why did you choose 6 to 8 as far as tech points versus resource towers.

SentrySteve

<!--quoteo(post=1741611:date=Nov 29 2009, 08:55 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kingmob @ Nov 29 2009, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741611"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thank you

now edkrst why did you choose 6 to 8 as far as tech points versus resource towers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

6 tech points because each side needs to claim one tech point in order to advance up to the their next technology tier. It's a safe assumption that the aliens will again have 3 tier / hive points and so it's likely the marine's will also have 3 tiers to their technology which totals 6 tech points. Resource towers depend on the size of your map, however, the developers have stated there will be significantly less random hallways and that nearly every room should have a purpose (ie: tech point or resource point) and a landmark of some sort.

obsid

I would say 4-8 tech points. After all, you may not want both sides to be able to have tech level 3 at the same time.

Drown

I actually didn't even think in this direction before... but that is probably just the strategic dynamic they are trying to play with. I think that actually gives me enough to work out, assuming that run speed, Onos sizes, skulk sizes and resource income (and spending) are all similar to ns1. Even still, it's not hard to guesstimate these things and just pump something out! I suspect that high tech maps with 6+ points will be the norm and more popular, but I like the idea of that optional 4-5 tech point maps where most of the time the war is fought with low-end resource elements. Mmmmmm =D

Daxx

<!--quoteo(post=1741508:date=Nov 29 2009, 12:51 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 29 2009, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741508"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now we just have the alpha version of the editor to find bugs, learn how to use it, and so on. Actual mapping will come later in the process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yep. The editor isn't complete enough to actually build full map with yet, your better off just experimenting with rooms/hallways.

spellman23

We also still require sizing for stuff like the Onos.

Rule of thumb: make hallways wide enough for at least 2 Onoses to pass each other without squeezing. And Vents for two skulks/Lerks to pass.

edkrst

<!--quoteo(post=1741611:date=Nov 29 2009, 08:55 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kingmob @ Nov 29 2009, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741611"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thank you

now edkrst why did you choose 6 to 8 as far as tech points versus resource towers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

FYI, that map isn't mine. It comes from this post: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/4/marine_power_grid_design" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009...wer_grid_design</a>.

WatchMaker

First off, I think it would be awesome if we could get some mapping guidelines. That said, I don't expect them. It's clear many core features in NS2 are still being shaped, and because of that, anything shared at this point would be very "up in the air."

Additionally: THIS. IS. ALPHA. We are not supposed to be making our NS2 maps, or even trying to make pretty screenshots. We are testing the editor, giving feedback, and helping Unknown Worlds improve it. That's the goal of this alpha, so it becomes silly to expect something beyond that. (Like mapping guidelines.)

-Diesel-

I just deleted my "map"

Because I realized that making a "map" is a complete waste of time, since I do not know how big... anything is.


It was a real blow to the face when I realized that all the hallways I made probably wouldn't fit an onos. I was working for 9 hours on it.

noncomposmentis

<!--quoteo(post=1741761:date=Nov 30 2009, 12:15 PM:name=ZeroFate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZeroFate @ Nov 30 2009, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741761"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Additionally: THIS. IS. ALPHA. We are not supposed to be making our NS2 maps, or even trying to make pretty screenshots. We are testing the editor, giving feedback, and helping Unknown Worlds improve it. That's the goal of this alpha, so it becomes silly to expect something beyond that. (Like mapping guidelines.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This isn't even Spart... alpha. It's pre-alpha. I think pretty screenshots is possibly the most you could do with the editor at this point, which also serves to test out and give feedback on the features of the editor, since you will be learning all of the ins and outs while you make your pointless rooms and hallways.

TychoCelchuuu

<!--quoteo(post=1741799:date=Nov 30 2009, 06:43 PM:name=-Diesel-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(-Diesel- @ Nov 30 2009, 06:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just deleted my "map"

Because I realized that making a "map" is a complete waste of time, since I do not know how big... anything is.
It was a real blow to the face when I realized that all the hallways I made probably wouldn't fit an onos. I was working for 9 hours on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point right now is to test the editor, to learn how to use the editor, and to get familiar with the props/materials available, not to craft a playable map before we even know how big an Onos is or how many res points are needed.

-Diesel-

<!--quoteo(post=1741809:date=Nov 30 2009, 07:15 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 30 2009, 07:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741809"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The point right now is to test the editor, to learn how to use the editor, and to get familiar with the props/materials available, not to craft a playable map before we even know how big an Onos is or how many res points are needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, that is what the point of my post was.

Vendicator

<!--quoteo(post=1741614:date=Nov 29 2009, 09:40 PM:name=obsid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(obsid @ Nov 29 2009, 09:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741614"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would say 4-8 tech points. After all, you may not want both sides to be able to have tech level 3 at the same time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I guess it depends upon the style of play and feel you want with your map. At the moment we have no clue the power of the different tech levels. If tech lvl 3 Aliens can wtfpwn tech lvl 2 marines, then maybe not allowing another slot for marines, in this example, to get to tech 3 to duke it out might be a bad idea. As it would ultimately lead to a game ending very quickly (also depending upon how fast you can "tech up" after capturing said areas)

So, I would say design your map upon how YOU want it to be played. After we find out more details you can adjust it accordingly.

I like longer, harder fought battles that depend upon skill of the players rather than advancements in tech. If that means giving both sides the opportunity to get tech 3, then so be it. Same to be said for an all out brawl for that tech 3. There is still so much to learn about this game for us to properly create maps that will not only be fun, but fair as well.

Daxx

<!--quoteo(post=1741755:date=Nov 30 2009, 01:55 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Nov 30 2009, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We also still require sizing for stuff like the Onos.

Rule of thumb: make hallways wide enough for at least 2 Onoses to pass each other without squeezing. And Vents for two skulks/Lerks to pass.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


From a design standpoint, I completely disagree.

While you don't want to limit your players and make it unfun, having areas where a specific player type/class is more vulnerable is important. Plus with some of the proposed abilities of the Onos (namely the Bone Shield) having him take up 90% of the hallway would be an important aspect. After all if a marine can easily flank the onos everywhere, it becomes pointless.

Conversely you would want sections where an Onos wouldn't want to be alone, like large rooms where the marines can easily flank/gun him down before he can get in range.