Turning off options to maximize "game"...

13

Comments

  • Metal SmithMetal Smith Join Date: 2009-11-05 Member: 69283Members
    As any sort of noise or shadows is really up to the mapper, there is no reason why there should not be an option to disable certain types of noise.

    de_aztec, first thing I do is open console and type stopsound, not to gain an advantage, but because the noise from the rain is rather annoying. It's like listening to white noise in my head set.

    cs_italy on the other hand has some tasteful noise coming from old fashioned radios at times. They are pleasant enough as background, and don't really affect gameplay, and if they become distacting, you can always shoot them.

    So, disabling a general ambient noise should be an option, and if there is a music or something else going on, there should be a way in game to turn it off. Either destroying the object it is coming from or pressing a button.

    For example, If marines have a cockpit area that is abandoned, you could have some sort of old rock n roll or country music coming from a speaker (think spooky empty hill billy cockpit with no lights except the blue ambient glow from the computer). This would provide excellent atmosphere, and it would also produce an effect of jumpyness, as well as provide perfect hiding spots for something like a skulk.

    Mind you, flash lights and Motions tracking / scent of fear type skills make all such thinks moot point, the ambient light in the game is pointless to argue about. If the map is designed well, you won't need to rely on the lighting. At the same time, if the sound is put in sparingly and with good style or mood, people won't want to turn it off.

    so my opinion is this:

    There should be an option to turn off sounds and increase gamma to the point where the average player will not feel the need to open console in game to rectify something.

    The majority of the player base should be able to play the game and enjoy it for at least a couple of months without ever opening the console or having to edit their settings for the most part.

    If there is an issue where there is an overwhelming request for a certain type of feature to be disabled, or where 90% of the player base uses only certain settings to make the game bearable, then the options should be patched in to make those changes available for everyone with equal opportunity without having to use the console.

    This team seems to be pretty well with it, and willing to do such things. They added a dot for Onos eating after all :D
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2009
    @Sirot
    Sadly thats also not true anymore, also consoleros try their best to gain advantages - so there are things like adapters for keybord and mice - with rapidfire mods for every button etc... but thats another topic.

    It comes down how importand sound is, and how UWE wants to balance it - if UWE makes sound not that important (so a fast gameplay where footsteps etc arent important) its ok to give the options to turn ambient etc off - but we all know ns never was a quake fps/rts mix at least not for the marine side.
  • MuYeahMuYeah Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
    <i>Sound</i> is important, one of the most important factors in the game. Hearing skulk or marine footsteps, eggs in hives, how many bullets a marine has shot, if theyre building.

    People just get annoyed when things randomly get in the way, especially when the variance of sound across hardware can be so great. Often you absolutely have to ambush or attack from a particular position and lo and behold the mappers decided that YOU shouldnt be able to hear the enemy but they can hear you because theres a big engine next to one of your only res towers.

    Map geometry (which can be perfectly balanced) has overwhelmingly pointed you to build that RT but the atmospheric bit of the mappers brain made them stick a bunch of annoying noise there that makes it incredibly hard to fight in for one team or the other.
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
    I've never in my life encountered 'variances in sound' such as has been suggested. Not on Auzentech, Turtle Beach, or Creative sound cards, nor on Realtek on-board audio that everyone and their mother has built-in - nor do I think such conditions are of such epidemic proportions that it mandates being able to change it. Honestly, if my graphics card were half-melted and made skulk textures show up black, the proper course of action isn't demanding a toggle to make skulks glow in the dark or something - it's fix my piece of crap computer.
  • SirotSirot Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
    edited November 2009
    But isn't dealing with the environment (e.g. sound) one of core tenants of successful combat? You don't always have the convenience of being able to hear the footsteps of the enemy.

    Just create guidelines for proper ambient sound placement in maps so mappers don't place looping tracks of whistling randomly in the map.

    EDIT: I am generally supportive of the idea of a marine going "oh snap, I won't be able to hear skulk come up behind me here. I should be more careful". It adds tension and is choice. You can either trying to get past that section as soon as possible or carefully advance to avoid an ambush.
  • monopolowamonopolowa Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28839Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1736519:date=Nov 6 2009, 08:44 AM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Nov 6 2009, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736519"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But isn't dealing with the environment (e.g. sound) one of core tenants of successful combat? You don't always have the convenience of being able to hear the footsteps of the enemy.

    Just create guidelines for proper ambient sound placement in maps so mappers don't place looping tracks of whistling randomly in the map.

    EDIT: I am generally supportive of the idea of a marine going "oh snap, I won't be able to hear skulk come up behind me here. I should be more careful". It adds tension and is choice. You can either trying to get past that section as soon as possible or carefully advance to avoid an ambush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    + 1

    NS for a competitive player and a casual player should be as close as possible. Part of the difficulty of playing NS is in differentiating enemies from the environment (whether it's sound, lighting, etc.), and if you can just liberally turn off those game elements it doesn't make you more skilled, all it means is "I need a handicap".

    As far as different PCs showing effects differently, I think those arguments are greatly exaggerated, extreme cases of hardware that's probably just not good enough to play games on (certainly not competitively)
  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1736519:date=Nov 6 2009, 04:44 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Nov 6 2009, 04:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736519"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But isn't dealing with the environment (e.g. sound) one of core tenants of successful combat? You don't always have the convenience of being able to hear the footsteps of the enemy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I would love for sounds to play a bigger role in combat. Like, some machine is creating noise every few seconds and you time your movement according to it.
    However that requires the sounds to be synchronized for all clients (players), which they currently aren't.
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2009
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and if you can just liberally turn off those game elements it doesn't make you more skilled, all it means is "I need a handicap".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    a. If you can turn off ambient+footsteps together only - then yes.(handicap)
    b. if you can turn of ambient only - then no.(advantage)

    Nobody has a problem with point a, just with point b.

    Every option available everybody(who cares about this kind of advantages) has to en/disable is a bad option.
  • jaminjamin Join Date: 2008-01-03 Member: 63332Members
    edited November 2009
    You can't just say "ooo some people might turn these things off to get an advantage... WE'D BETTER LOCK ALL SETTINGS!!"
    That will just annoy the majority of people.. Wether it be hardware related, being able to kill things related or using cool custom models related.

    Just imagine if you preached to lock all settings and they did (god forbid)... Then when you download the game your graphics card can't deal with a certain effect for some reason and your framerate drops to 5 whenever it's onscreen. You'll wish you could turn it off then. OR would having a framerate higher than 5 ruin the atmosphere of the game?

    My point is you just can't lock out settings to avoid some people getting slight advantages... Some people will not be able to play the game AT ALL if seetings are locked.
  • monopolowamonopolowa Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28839Members
    Adjustable options for graphics quality are fine. These options are necessary to bring an optimal game experience for the largest number of people possible, over a wide range of PC hardware, and they should not have an effect on game balance (stuff like AA/AF/vsync/screen resolution)

    Things like hiding in shadows or cloaking are a bit trickier. We don't know for sure how cloaking will be handled yet (or how it may look on various systems), but hopefully it will just skew the environment behind a cloaked player instead of % transparency on the model itself. And as shadows can be adjusted by 3rd party gamma apps (whether or not they are necessary on someone's system) I'd say it's largely up to the mappers to either have the maps lit well enough that gamma hacking is unnecessary, or vary bright and dark areas enough that gamma hackers have a disadvantage in the lit areas.


    If things like disabling ambient sound/gun viewmodels/etc. are available it should be an option to lock these settings on the server side, so that everyone is on a level playing field in tournament play, for example.


    Ultimately it's up to the devs (and mappers) to make sure that players don't get an advantage by stripping out gameplay elements.
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
    If they resort to a ###### cliched water shader for cloaking I'm going to swallow a fork just to puke it back up out of spite.
  • Space_CowboySpace_Cowboy Join Date: 2007-01-23 Member: 59722Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1736618:date=Nov 7 2009, 08:33 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 7 2009, 08:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If they resort to a ###### cliched water shader for cloaking I'm going to swallow a fork just to puke it back up out of spite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Im sure that skill chamber will be even more lame in NS2 than NS, so you should be happy. 100 % cloaking when walking has to be one of my biggets grips in the current NS, its just not fun to play against nor it is rewarding to play with.

    I really like ambient sounds and atmosphere in single player games. But when I play multiplayer I don’t wanna play against the map but against the other players, simple as that. Why is dust2 in CS, veil/tanith in NS and qzdm6 in Q3 so popular? These maps are all very simple, bright and rather bland atmosphere wise, probably because the game play on them is just that much better.
  • UzguzUzguz Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17016Members, Constellation
    I actually have one experience of ambient sounds being a problem, and it was most unlikely: Several years ago, I played The Specialists casually (I was terrible at it, too). One map that was often played was set in a beachside mansion, and, accordingly, there was a continuous sea breeze ambient sound in the outdoor areas. Normally, this was not an issue; the sound sat in the background like it should have, and didn't really affect the gameplay at all.

    Then, one day, the headphones I was using broke. (Unfortunately, that isn't a terribly uncommon occurrence for me...) Annoyed but not deterred, I pulled out a spare pair that I had lying around, and tried to use that instead. At first, it was fine; it didn't have a microphone like the first pair, but that was no big deal.

    Then that beachside map came on, and... wow. To this day, I still don't understand how such an enormous difference manifested from such a simple change (both pairs of headphones were low-end and cheap), but that once-innocuous sound became <i>deafening</i>. It almost completely drowned out everything else, and literally made that map unplayable. I was actually better off using the first pair of headphones, with one side completely dead and the other one getting there, than trying to hear gunshots not three metres away from me over the screeching, ear-damaging white noise emitted by the second.

    So there you go. It's an extreme example, yes, and admittedly I never played The Specialists in a serious competitive setting on any map or with any particular headphones (and just as well, apparently); but it does go to show, nonetheless, that sometimes these things do pose an immediately obstructive technical problem, and thus that they cannot be so easily dismissed as "people trying to cheat".

    Unless, of course, someone would care to suggest that "my own lack of skill" is the reason why I would have preferred not to have to damage my hearing in order to keep playing on that map with that hardware configuration...
  • EnragedPlatypusEnragedPlatypus Join Date: 2009-05-30 Member: 67567Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1736358:date=Nov 5 2009, 12:28 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Nov 5 2009, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who wouldn't.

    At least my problem is that I enjoy understanding various systems and their logic too much. Combine that with huge amount of gaming experience and multiplayer games just stop working immersion wise. For example in public NS every other marine is doing something so useless or blatantly stupid that any illusion of trained space marines shatters instantly. After that the next skulk just runs right into without being harmful in any way and the survival feel is gone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I get what you're saying.

    I guess after playing around realism crowds for as long as I have (With the exception of when I play games like TF2, in which case I'm just messin' about) I'm just used to having the majority of people know what they're doing and making it look damn near professional.

    Of course I'm sure this is most likely what I'll do in NS2. I'll look for the "teamwork and tactics" server, rather than the "hardcore- squeeze every advantage out of your game" server, where it's all about that virtual KDR. Then it's just a matter of spending all my time on that server. :P
  • blackpiranhablackpiranha Germany Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14375Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1736623:date=Nov 7 2009, 05:03 AM:name=Space_Cowboy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Space_Cowboy @ Nov 7 2009, 05:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im sure that skill chamber will be even more lame in NS2 than NS, so you should be happy. 100 % cloaking when walking has to be one of my biggets grips in the current NS, its just not fun to play against nor it is rewarding to play with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    well it's quite easy to counter with sound, an obs or scan...
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1736712:date=Nov 8 2009, 08:13 AM:name=EnragedPlatypus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EnragedPlatypus @ Nov 8 2009, 08:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I get what you're saying.

    I guess after playing around realism crowds for as long as I have (With the exception of when I play games like TF2, in which case I'm just messin' about) I'm just used to having the majority of people know what they're doing and making it look damn near professional.

    Of course I'm sure this is most likely what I'll do in NS2. I'll look for the "teamwork and tactics" server, rather than the "hardcore- squeeze every advantage out of your game" server, where it's all about that virtual KDR. Then it's just a matter of spending all my time on that server. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Restricting it server-side is a good idea but we all remember what a BFD mp_blockscripts was.

    I also like the idea of a whitelist of approved reskins, meshes, etc.
  • monopolowamonopolowa Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28839Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1736618:date=Nov 7 2009, 02:33 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 7 2009, 02:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If they resort to a ###### cliched water shader for cloaking I'm going to swallow a fork just to puke it back up out of spite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's cliched because it works. How would you prefer to see cloaking handled?

    100% transparency by itself is too powerful unless you use a hard counter (obs/scan), any other % is easy to spot and would look bad...I'd say the ideal way to do cloaking is exactly that water shader effect, perhaps making the amount the background is warped dependent on the alien's speed
    maybe the alien could still cast shadows as well
  • OBhaveOBhave Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14462Members, Constellation
    You probably wont EVER be able to completely stop the people who want to remove all visual and auditory obstacles to maximize their "game".


    Therefor I guess the best solution is to have special servers for those people. Everybody's happy. It's only a cheat if your opponents aren't doing the same thing.

    Of course there WILL be those rotten a-hole types that'll actually WANT to cheat on the regular servers... and we need to put up every possible hindrance against it. Plus, having servers where "maximizing game" is enabled will leave the actual CHEATERS with no bloody excuse, thereby justifying some juicy BANS... mmmmmm bans.
  • MuYeahMuYeah Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
    Or design the game in such a way that it isn't necessary or can't be "maximised" and then you won't have to splinter your community already further than it will be with the ridiculous LUA modding.
  • OBhaveOBhave Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14462Members, Constellation
    Actually, I was thinking of LUA modding when I said that...

    But agreed, your way is definately <i>preferable</i> ... now if only it <i>can</i> be done. Failing that, my method might serve.

    But meh ... if it's possible to make "maximized game" servers using LUA modding, the we'll be seeing that sheit anyway... wow we'll probably be seeing all kinds of shiz with all that LUA modding.


    Personally I'll be sticking with the vanilla servers, and maybe a few of the bigger, more respected mods later in the game's life.
  • SirotSirot Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
    I honestly think people are overestimating the LUA modding. If anyone has any disagreement with the game, one of the obligatory answers is "fix it in LUA".
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737325:date=Nov 12 2009, 03:31 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Nov 12 2009, 03:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I honestly think people are overestimating the LUA modding. If anyone has any disagreement with the game, one of the obligatory answers is "fix it in LUA".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeh. Even if it's possible to pull it off with LUA, I'd rather not shatter the whole community into 10 separate LUA clusters. See how blockscripts worked on NS and see how inaccessible the competetive play has become with it's modifications and public servers having their own. The core game still needs to be approachable, agreeable and entertaining for all audiences the game wants to have. That affects NS2 even more than the AAA titles as the playerbase isn't going to be that big to start with.
  • PneumaticCrabPneumaticCrab Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10133Members
    <img src="http://home.comcast.net/~cardboardsloth/hera.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />


    this is the only way i will play ns. i'm sorry but if ns 2 does not allow blackwalls i will be forced to boycott it.
  • monopolowamonopolowa Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28839Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737715:date=Nov 15 2009, 09:40 AM:name=PneumaticCrab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PneumaticCrab @ Nov 15 2009, 09:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://home.comcast.net/~cardboardsloth/hera.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />


    this is the only way i will play ns. i'm sorry but if ns 2 does not allow blackwalls i will be forced to boycott it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    If that's the case I hope you do boycott it, because we simply wouldn't be playing the same game
  • SirotSirot Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
    You should look into playing Tron instead.
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    ^^ what happens when you fail at sarcasm
  • OBhaveOBhave Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14462Members, Constellation
    hurr hurrh ... Learn2Sarcasm :P
  • TerrTerr Arthritic Skulk Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7486Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1736552:date=Nov 6 2009, 11:54 AM:name=jamin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamin @ Nov 6 2009, 11:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My point is you just can't lock out settings to avoid some people getting slight advantages... Some people will not be able to play the game AT ALL if seetings are locked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hell no. You lock the settings because otherwise people exploit the crap out of them. Demonstrated by history.

    If you can't play the game due to to some locked setting, the correct answer is to ask for a bug-fix or a feature that turns it off in a safe and non-exploitative manner.
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1736552:date=Nov 6 2009, 07:54 PM:name=jamin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamin @ Nov 6 2009, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just imagine if you preached to lock all settings and they did (god forbid)... Then when you download the game your graphics card can't deal with a certain effect for some reason and your framerate drops to 5 whenever it's onscreen. You'll wish you could turn it off then. OR would having a framerate higher than 5 ruin the atmosphere of the game?

    My point is you just can't lock out settings to avoid some people getting slight advantages... Some people will not be able to play the game AT ALL if seetings are locked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    In addition to what Terr said, this is, well, 'not <i>my</i> problem'. If you're running on a 6800 or something woefully out of date, I have only the barest amount of sympathy for you - and ideally the graphics options should be such that if you lower settings, the game should replace the reduced option with one that is either similar or worse. Note that this need not be true for all settings, there are graphical options that exist only for flair - for example, an option to leave persistent bullet casings, decal lifespan, and even bouncing particle. However if, for example, getting hit by a grenade blast temporarily disorients you with a shader effect and fills the area with soft particle smoke, and you can reduce the impact of these effects by turning off shaders and a console option that removes particles altogether, that's an example of reduced settings giving you an advantage - the ideal solution is to replace them with lower-impact settings that look far worse but provide the same disadvantage.

    If, however, your problems are perhaps an audio problem caused by faulty headphones, or a graphics problem caused by a faulty graphics card, the solution is to fix your computer, not ask the developers to put in options to circumvent it for you. For every one person who is avoiding a legit issue, there are dozens who will simply CLAIM that they have faulty hardware, and insist that their 'monitor is broke so that's why I have to run at gamma +10'.
  • JimydJimyd Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
    If I can run Quake, I should be able to run this game.
















    ("Inherent Humor")
Sign In or Register to comment.