New Players and Support Roles: an Exploration of Accessability and Depth
Voyager I
Join Date: 2009-11-02 Member: 69222Members
Join Date: 2009-11-02 Member: 69222Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Making the game better for everyone</div><b>If you hate reading, skip to “Support Roles: A Summary†and continue from there until you get bored.</b>
Hi! Before I start, I'm going to give a little introduction. I've been playing single-player FPS games for basically my whole life and Competitive Team Fortress 2 for the last year and a half. Anyone who's good at video games will notice that this isn't a terribly rigorous resume, so it probably doesn't surprise you to learn that my mechanical skills (especially aim) are sub par. Fortunately, I'm a pretty bright fellow, so I'm good at the mental aspects of the game and learn new concepts quickly even if I don't have the talent to pull them off.
Since I've gotten a little bored of TF2 but don't feel like shelling out money for bad games (aka Modern Warfare), I've started taking a look at some of the older classics like NS. I'm approaching it as someone who's bad and comfortable with that, but expects to get better. In the mean time, I'm looking for ways to make meaningful contributions to my team, improve, and maybe even try to enjoy myself a little in the process of joining a community that has been playing for 7 years. Now I'm going to offer some of my experiences as a well-intentioned rookie and try to convert them into useful feedback for the design of NS 2.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Support Roles: an Introduction</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
One of the best ways I've seen for new players to participate is through the game offering supporting roles that allow them to help their teammates without having a full understanding of the game or excellent twitch skills. This doesn't really work in pure DM games like Quake, but for games with a strong team focus like NS it's an excellent way to help rookies bridge the gap. TF2 handles this pretty well; the Medic and the Engineer can be the most important classes in the game (read: the Medic <i>is</i> the most important class in the game), and both of them can make a dramatic difference for their team even in the hands of players with only rudimentary abilities. There are some significant flaws in TF2's execution of this which I'll address later, but the most important idea for the moment is that TF2 lets new, inexperienced players contribute to the game by taking on roles that support their team in ways other than just deathmatching with bad guys.
Natural Selection does this to a limited extent. There's no pre-set support class for the Marines, but you don't have to be a CAL all-star to stick around and build the base, and if you give a welder to someone with the mindset of a TF2 Medic (like me) they can do a lot for their team without ever killing an alien. The Marines also tend to travel in groups, so there's less pressure on new players to perform individually so much as follow their teammates around and shoot at the same things they do. You even have a commander who drops buildings for you and gives you waypoints, so as long as you know the keys for "Use" and "Minimap" you can be somewhat useful, even if you're something of a resource liability between dying often and dropping equipment.
Unfortunately, the Kharaa handle this much worse. At the most fundamental level, anyone who has played a shooter before will at least kinda understand what they're doing when they spawn as the generic "Space Marine with Assault Rifle", whereas the aliens are like nothing new players will have ever seen before. On top of this basic unfamiliarity, they lack the inherent support network of the Marines; there's no commander to tell you what to do and the overall play is much more individualistic. A confused Skulk can't play tag-along with a Fade the same way a rookie Marine can follow his more experienced comrades. They <i>do</i> have a dedicated support class, but the Gorge is completely bewildering and unforgiving to new players. <i>You</i> place your buildings instead of a central commander, which requires a full knowledge of the game's tech tree as well as a deeper strategic understanding of what, where, when, and why you should build any given chamber. You're vulnerable in combat but can't count on an escort because aliens don't work together very closely, which combined with the fact that as a new player you don't really understand the flow of the game (as in "where not to go to avoid Marines") means you can expect to get killed fairly often, and every time you die in this manner you waste the resources you needed to transform. As a new player myself, I usually spend my time as a Kahraa hopping around lost as a Skulk, dying a lot, with only the vague consolation that maybe I'll start to get it 'eventually'. I never choose aliens willingly, and I don't generally bother with the higher life forms because my lack of kills means I don't get the resources to re-evolve.
Between the two, I find Marines to be much more enjoyable. I don't get many kills, but I'm working with my team, I feel like I'm contributing in at least some way, and I can tell that I'm picking up the general flow of things. Kahraa, on the other hand, are frustrating. I get even <i>less</i> kills, I feel completely useless because there's really nothing I can do to help out (since I have no idea how to Gorge), and throughout it all I don't even know what I should by <i>trying</i> to do better.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Rookies are People, Too</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
One of the biggest problems with support roles, both in NS and TF2, is that they aren’t necessarily any <i>fun</i>. Right now I don’t mind being the team ###### in NS, sticking behind to build the armory instead of fighting the aliens and then spending the late game following the Heavy Train with a welder while all the good players fly around with HMG’s and Jetpacks, but that’s not how I want to play in the long-term and the vast majority of FPS players don’t want to do that for any amount of time. Most people play shooters to <i>shoot</i> things, and if a role doesn’t let them do that then it’s very hard to get them to fill it no matter how many incentives you offer. Lets take another look at the Medic in TF2 for this one; he’s by far the most important class in the game, he generally sees a lot more action than the Engineer since his duty places him at the front lines by necessity, he has the most powerful special abilities, and he scores far more points than anyone else just for doing his job. By rights, he should be played more than any other class, (and if people were playing purely to win, he probably would be) but instead he’s third to last because he doesn’t actually get to kill anything. It’s the <i>other</i> support class, the Engineer, that takes top honors for time played, despite the fact that much of that is spent hiding behind an AI Gun that does the shooting for you.
To make NS2 more accessible to new players, there needs to be support roles more intrinsic to the game and more rewarding than “weld-###### because the commander doesn’t trust you with a shotgun†or being completely lost as an alien. In NS1, there’s not really much fun to be had for new players; commanders don’t have the resources to give cool toys to people who can’t use them, aliens who don’t get kills don’t have the resources for advanced life forms, and dying with either one (which probably won’t take long for new players) sets you right back to the start. If you make true support roles with new players in mind, you can take a lot of the edge off the learning curve without compromising the fundamental game.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>The Larger Game</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Of course, it’s not enough just to make support fun for the supporters; they should also improve the game <i>overall</i>. TF2 provides us with two more good examples of support classes gone wrong.
The first case of this is the Engineer. On an index of difficulty to effectiveness, he perhaps rates higher than any other class; so long as an Engineer knows one or two good spots to build his equipment on any given stage of the map (and given the simplicity of TF2 maps, this doesn’t take long) and knows what an ammo box looks like, he’s capable of doing his job competently without requiring any FPS skills more advanced than hitting his buildings with a wrench. This easiness, combined with the fact that the Engineer is technically capable of getting kills (apparently kills-by-proxy are good enough for all the people who won’t play Medic), makes him the most popular classes in the game. This is fine and dandy for all the new players who enjoy the class, but it’s terrible for everybody who has to fight through them. Sentries are boring encounters. They’re very simple; they don’t move and they don’t miss. This means that they will always kill you if you walk in front of them no matter how much better you are than the rookies who built them, but they can’t do anything about someone peeking from around a corner (although their teammates can, which will make them difficult to destroy). They’re a roadblock to the fighting more than an actual fight, and when both teams have a lot of them the game tends to bog down into a stalemate. Support classes should be fun for the user, but it’s perhaps even more important that they’re also enjoyable for everyone else to deal with, and they definitely shouldn’t be something that can be spammed to destroy the flow of the game.
The Medic takes this in the opposite direction. You probably remember me saying that they’re the most important class. When I say this, I mean that a team in TF2 cannot function properly without healers; it’s impossible to maintain offensive momentum through chokepoints if you have to run back for a health pack every time you catch a bit of rocket splash, and their Ubercharge ability is often a necessity to break stalemates such as those caused by excessive Sentries. A lack of Medics leads to passive gameplay where everyone is focused on avoiding damage and forced to take long walks back for health when they inevitably do.
If you’re the thinking type, you can probably see a problem forming here; the support class that’s most disruptive to gameplay in large numbers is also the most played, and the one that’s most essential to the game working properly is sorely underrepresented. Following simple logic, the natural conclusion would be that the average TF2 pub can be incredibly frustrating if you give even half a damn about the outcome…and you’d be right. That’s why I’m writing this; I see a good concept and a good game in NS, and I can see already that they’re trying to make NS2 preserve that concept while also being more accessible to new players. I want to see that happen, and so I’m outlining some of the pitfalls of that process that I’ve seen in my own experience.
<b>Highlight: Taking off the Training Wheels</b>
There’s one more problem with TF2’s support classes, and especially the Engineer. TF2 does a good job of making the game accessible to newbies, but in doing so it also relieve a lot of the pressure they feel to ever actually get <i>better</i>. A bad Engineer can keep hiding behind his Sentry for his entire TF2 career, and although he might develop a deeper knowledge of how to play his class, he won’t acquire any fundamental FPS skills like aiming and dodging or truly begin to understand the game outside that which interacts immediately with him. While we don’t want to push new players in off the deep end, the idea is still that they will eventually learn to swim.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Support Roles: A Summary</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
So, let’s take quick review of the fundamental points we’ve established.
<b>1a. Support Classes should allow new players to participate meaningfully in the game by helping their teammates.
1b. The game should have built-in mechanics to help new players, both by providing them with basic tooltips and by putting them under the guidance of more experienced allies.</b>
One of the worst aspects of NS is the feeling of being lost and useless. There’s no need to put players through that, and a mercilessly steep learning curve undoubtedly turns off new players who could otherwise have enjoyed playing the game and contributed to a larger and longer-lived community.
<b>2. Support Classes should be fun to play.</b>
There’s not much point in including them if they’re only marginally more enjoyable then getting killed all the time.
<b>3. Support Classes should be fun to play <i>against</i>.</b>
Bad players shouldn’t be helpless, but at the same time they shouldn’t become frustrating encounters for good players simply by virtue of playing a Support Class.
<b>4. Support Classes should be fun to play <i>without</i>.</b>
It’s okay if having one or two of a support class is always a good idea, or even necessary for victory in a serious setting, but players shouldn’t be incapable of enjoying a public game unless one of them takes the dive to support when they really want to frag.
<b>5. Support Classes should teach new players how to become better.</b>
New players should be able to have fun even if they’re bad, but that doesn’t mean they should stay that way indefinitely.
<i>Essentially, it should be easy for new players to tag along with experienced players as a Support Class and the relationship should be mutually rewarding, but experienced players shouldn’t be dependent on the Support Classes to play effectively.</i>
<b><i>Alright, so how’s NS 2 looking on this front?</b></i>
There’s not much information out yet and I’m hardly an NS expert myself (although that was kinda the point) but so far, the changes seem for the better on this track.
The addition of an Alien Commander should take a lot of the pressure off of inexperienced gorges; they’re no longer responsible for the overarching strategy of the alien team, and hopefully having a centralized authority figure will mean someone’s always pointing them in the right direction. However, if both they and their buildings still cost resources then it’s going to present a significant hurdle to new players, since they will be penalized for their inevitable mistakes in a manner which they will be hard-pressed to recover. Furthermore, Gorging still may not satisfy the more aggressive rookies. It’s tempting just to say “learn to Skulkâ€, but if it’s anything like NS1 then that’s going to involve a lot more dead than fun.
The deeper squad system on the Marine side of things should really be helpful for rookies. They’ll be directly attached to a group of people who are hopefully more experienced than them, who are themselves part of the orchestral plans of the Commander. This means that “follow the good people†will be a much more reliable strategy for beginners. Even better, when a rookie gets himself killed doing something stupid he can rejoin his squad directly with the improved Infantry Portal instead of wandering through corridors by himself waiting to get picked off again. These two changes should maximize the amount of time new players spend under the protection and guidance of veterans, learning through observation and experience and maybe even stealing a few kills.
The biggest problem I see here is that, if NS 2 uses anything like the old resource system, new players won’t get to play with anything cool very often. They don’t get enough kills as Kharaa to earn higher life forms, Commanders can’t afford to trust them with equipment, and if they ever do get their hands on something they lose it as soon as they die. New players might have more fun if there was a selection of entertaining and inexpensive items that would be helpful in their hands but not worth the loss of a normal weapon for someone who could aim.
I won’t make too many suggestions here, but I’m thinking of things like a limited motion-tracker that takes their Pistol slot or an anti-building support weapon that’s fun and easy to use, but impractical against aliens; things that would make them useful to their squad without being completely stuck in the back row, a major resource liability, or a significant frustration to their enemies.
<b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Support Roles and Good Players<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
Part of the reason I’m writing this is that I’ve seen the general trend for making shooters more accessible is simply to make them easier. That seems like the kind of thing I should endorse as someone who’s not all that impressive themselves, but I’ve seen the beauty of a truly deep game played at high levels, and <i>that</i> is the kind of experience I want. The mental depth of a Quake duel gives the strategy nerd inside me a hard-on, and the interplay between the numerous different skills that must be mastered to play the game at its best only makes it all the more enticing. Every time you remove something simply to close the gap between the good and the bad, you cut out a piece of what makes a game worth playing in the long run.
Instead of toning the game down so that the average player can compete right out of the box, design a deep game with mechanisms to ease the transition. Don’t make Skulks bigger because rookies can’t aim or give them auto-bite because the timing is hard; design ways for them to contribute meaningfully <i>other</i> than straight-up deathmatching while allowing them to hone their skills. The game will be that much better for everybody in the long run.
This isn’t to say that every little glitch that experienced players learn to integrate into the game should be preserved for its own sake, regardless of balance, but simply that something shouldn’t be removed simply because new players can’t do it. Likewise, there’s no merit to pointless difficulty. I won’t shed a tear for the end labyrinthine maps consisting primarily of pointless corridors with no intuitive path from A to B. Understanding the tactical implications of the map layout is an important skill, but you shouldn’t have to fight the game just to find your way around. A perfect game should allow anybody to play and feel like they’re helping, but still leave room for everyone to get better.
<b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Final Statement<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
Obviously there won’t be easy answers to all of this and some compromises will have to be made, but if anyone cares about good games then these are the issues they have chosen to confront. Today, most developers take the easy way out, releasing shallow, aesthetically pleasing games that are lauded by the general public but can’t approach the legacy of the old classics. It seems that UWE has higher ambitions than that, and I would personally be very happy if they saw them through. Just remember that accessible need not equate to easy!
With all that said, what are people's opinions, both on on my own statements and how they can be applied to the development of this game?
Hi! Before I start, I'm going to give a little introduction. I've been playing single-player FPS games for basically my whole life and Competitive Team Fortress 2 for the last year and a half. Anyone who's good at video games will notice that this isn't a terribly rigorous resume, so it probably doesn't surprise you to learn that my mechanical skills (especially aim) are sub par. Fortunately, I'm a pretty bright fellow, so I'm good at the mental aspects of the game and learn new concepts quickly even if I don't have the talent to pull them off.
Since I've gotten a little bored of TF2 but don't feel like shelling out money for bad games (aka Modern Warfare), I've started taking a look at some of the older classics like NS. I'm approaching it as someone who's bad and comfortable with that, but expects to get better. In the mean time, I'm looking for ways to make meaningful contributions to my team, improve, and maybe even try to enjoy myself a little in the process of joining a community that has been playing for 7 years. Now I'm going to offer some of my experiences as a well-intentioned rookie and try to convert them into useful feedback for the design of NS 2.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Support Roles: an Introduction</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
One of the best ways I've seen for new players to participate is through the game offering supporting roles that allow them to help their teammates without having a full understanding of the game or excellent twitch skills. This doesn't really work in pure DM games like Quake, but for games with a strong team focus like NS it's an excellent way to help rookies bridge the gap. TF2 handles this pretty well; the Medic and the Engineer can be the most important classes in the game (read: the Medic <i>is</i> the most important class in the game), and both of them can make a dramatic difference for their team even in the hands of players with only rudimentary abilities. There are some significant flaws in TF2's execution of this which I'll address later, but the most important idea for the moment is that TF2 lets new, inexperienced players contribute to the game by taking on roles that support their team in ways other than just deathmatching with bad guys.
Natural Selection does this to a limited extent. There's no pre-set support class for the Marines, but you don't have to be a CAL all-star to stick around and build the base, and if you give a welder to someone with the mindset of a TF2 Medic (like me) they can do a lot for their team without ever killing an alien. The Marines also tend to travel in groups, so there's less pressure on new players to perform individually so much as follow their teammates around and shoot at the same things they do. You even have a commander who drops buildings for you and gives you waypoints, so as long as you know the keys for "Use" and "Minimap" you can be somewhat useful, even if you're something of a resource liability between dying often and dropping equipment.
Unfortunately, the Kharaa handle this much worse. At the most fundamental level, anyone who has played a shooter before will at least kinda understand what they're doing when they spawn as the generic "Space Marine with Assault Rifle", whereas the aliens are like nothing new players will have ever seen before. On top of this basic unfamiliarity, they lack the inherent support network of the Marines; there's no commander to tell you what to do and the overall play is much more individualistic. A confused Skulk can't play tag-along with a Fade the same way a rookie Marine can follow his more experienced comrades. They <i>do</i> have a dedicated support class, but the Gorge is completely bewildering and unforgiving to new players. <i>You</i> place your buildings instead of a central commander, which requires a full knowledge of the game's tech tree as well as a deeper strategic understanding of what, where, when, and why you should build any given chamber. You're vulnerable in combat but can't count on an escort because aliens don't work together very closely, which combined with the fact that as a new player you don't really understand the flow of the game (as in "where not to go to avoid Marines") means you can expect to get killed fairly often, and every time you die in this manner you waste the resources you needed to transform. As a new player myself, I usually spend my time as a Kahraa hopping around lost as a Skulk, dying a lot, with only the vague consolation that maybe I'll start to get it 'eventually'. I never choose aliens willingly, and I don't generally bother with the higher life forms because my lack of kills means I don't get the resources to re-evolve.
Between the two, I find Marines to be much more enjoyable. I don't get many kills, but I'm working with my team, I feel like I'm contributing in at least some way, and I can tell that I'm picking up the general flow of things. Kahraa, on the other hand, are frustrating. I get even <i>less</i> kills, I feel completely useless because there's really nothing I can do to help out (since I have no idea how to Gorge), and throughout it all I don't even know what I should by <i>trying</i> to do better.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Rookies are People, Too</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
One of the biggest problems with support roles, both in NS and TF2, is that they aren’t necessarily any <i>fun</i>. Right now I don’t mind being the team ###### in NS, sticking behind to build the armory instead of fighting the aliens and then spending the late game following the Heavy Train with a welder while all the good players fly around with HMG’s and Jetpacks, but that’s not how I want to play in the long-term and the vast majority of FPS players don’t want to do that for any amount of time. Most people play shooters to <i>shoot</i> things, and if a role doesn’t let them do that then it’s very hard to get them to fill it no matter how many incentives you offer. Lets take another look at the Medic in TF2 for this one; he’s by far the most important class in the game, he generally sees a lot more action than the Engineer since his duty places him at the front lines by necessity, he has the most powerful special abilities, and he scores far more points than anyone else just for doing his job. By rights, he should be played more than any other class, (and if people were playing purely to win, he probably would be) but instead he’s third to last because he doesn’t actually get to kill anything. It’s the <i>other</i> support class, the Engineer, that takes top honors for time played, despite the fact that much of that is spent hiding behind an AI Gun that does the shooting for you.
To make NS2 more accessible to new players, there needs to be support roles more intrinsic to the game and more rewarding than “weld-###### because the commander doesn’t trust you with a shotgun†or being completely lost as an alien. In NS1, there’s not really much fun to be had for new players; commanders don’t have the resources to give cool toys to people who can’t use them, aliens who don’t get kills don’t have the resources for advanced life forms, and dying with either one (which probably won’t take long for new players) sets you right back to the start. If you make true support roles with new players in mind, you can take a lot of the edge off the learning curve without compromising the fundamental game.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>The Larger Game</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Of course, it’s not enough just to make support fun for the supporters; they should also improve the game <i>overall</i>. TF2 provides us with two more good examples of support classes gone wrong.
The first case of this is the Engineer. On an index of difficulty to effectiveness, he perhaps rates higher than any other class; so long as an Engineer knows one or two good spots to build his equipment on any given stage of the map (and given the simplicity of TF2 maps, this doesn’t take long) and knows what an ammo box looks like, he’s capable of doing his job competently without requiring any FPS skills more advanced than hitting his buildings with a wrench. This easiness, combined with the fact that the Engineer is technically capable of getting kills (apparently kills-by-proxy are good enough for all the people who won’t play Medic), makes him the most popular classes in the game. This is fine and dandy for all the new players who enjoy the class, but it’s terrible for everybody who has to fight through them. Sentries are boring encounters. They’re very simple; they don’t move and they don’t miss. This means that they will always kill you if you walk in front of them no matter how much better you are than the rookies who built them, but they can’t do anything about someone peeking from around a corner (although their teammates can, which will make them difficult to destroy). They’re a roadblock to the fighting more than an actual fight, and when both teams have a lot of them the game tends to bog down into a stalemate. Support classes should be fun for the user, but it’s perhaps even more important that they’re also enjoyable for everyone else to deal with, and they definitely shouldn’t be something that can be spammed to destroy the flow of the game.
The Medic takes this in the opposite direction. You probably remember me saying that they’re the most important class. When I say this, I mean that a team in TF2 cannot function properly without healers; it’s impossible to maintain offensive momentum through chokepoints if you have to run back for a health pack every time you catch a bit of rocket splash, and their Ubercharge ability is often a necessity to break stalemates such as those caused by excessive Sentries. A lack of Medics leads to passive gameplay where everyone is focused on avoiding damage and forced to take long walks back for health when they inevitably do.
If you’re the thinking type, you can probably see a problem forming here; the support class that’s most disruptive to gameplay in large numbers is also the most played, and the one that’s most essential to the game working properly is sorely underrepresented. Following simple logic, the natural conclusion would be that the average TF2 pub can be incredibly frustrating if you give even half a damn about the outcome…and you’d be right. That’s why I’m writing this; I see a good concept and a good game in NS, and I can see already that they’re trying to make NS2 preserve that concept while also being more accessible to new players. I want to see that happen, and so I’m outlining some of the pitfalls of that process that I’ve seen in my own experience.
<b>Highlight: Taking off the Training Wheels</b>
There’s one more problem with TF2’s support classes, and especially the Engineer. TF2 does a good job of making the game accessible to newbies, but in doing so it also relieve a lot of the pressure they feel to ever actually get <i>better</i>. A bad Engineer can keep hiding behind his Sentry for his entire TF2 career, and although he might develop a deeper knowledge of how to play his class, he won’t acquire any fundamental FPS skills like aiming and dodging or truly begin to understand the game outside that which interacts immediately with him. While we don’t want to push new players in off the deep end, the idea is still that they will eventually learn to swim.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Support Roles: A Summary</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
So, let’s take quick review of the fundamental points we’ve established.
<b>1a. Support Classes should allow new players to participate meaningfully in the game by helping their teammates.
1b. The game should have built-in mechanics to help new players, both by providing them with basic tooltips and by putting them under the guidance of more experienced allies.</b>
One of the worst aspects of NS is the feeling of being lost and useless. There’s no need to put players through that, and a mercilessly steep learning curve undoubtedly turns off new players who could otherwise have enjoyed playing the game and contributed to a larger and longer-lived community.
<b>2. Support Classes should be fun to play.</b>
There’s not much point in including them if they’re only marginally more enjoyable then getting killed all the time.
<b>3. Support Classes should be fun to play <i>against</i>.</b>
Bad players shouldn’t be helpless, but at the same time they shouldn’t become frustrating encounters for good players simply by virtue of playing a Support Class.
<b>4. Support Classes should be fun to play <i>without</i>.</b>
It’s okay if having one or two of a support class is always a good idea, or even necessary for victory in a serious setting, but players shouldn’t be incapable of enjoying a public game unless one of them takes the dive to support when they really want to frag.
<b>5. Support Classes should teach new players how to become better.</b>
New players should be able to have fun even if they’re bad, but that doesn’t mean they should stay that way indefinitely.
<i>Essentially, it should be easy for new players to tag along with experienced players as a Support Class and the relationship should be mutually rewarding, but experienced players shouldn’t be dependent on the Support Classes to play effectively.</i>
<b><i>Alright, so how’s NS 2 looking on this front?</b></i>
There’s not much information out yet and I’m hardly an NS expert myself (although that was kinda the point) but so far, the changes seem for the better on this track.
The addition of an Alien Commander should take a lot of the pressure off of inexperienced gorges; they’re no longer responsible for the overarching strategy of the alien team, and hopefully having a centralized authority figure will mean someone’s always pointing them in the right direction. However, if both they and their buildings still cost resources then it’s going to present a significant hurdle to new players, since they will be penalized for their inevitable mistakes in a manner which they will be hard-pressed to recover. Furthermore, Gorging still may not satisfy the more aggressive rookies. It’s tempting just to say “learn to Skulkâ€, but if it’s anything like NS1 then that’s going to involve a lot more dead than fun.
The deeper squad system on the Marine side of things should really be helpful for rookies. They’ll be directly attached to a group of people who are hopefully more experienced than them, who are themselves part of the orchestral plans of the Commander. This means that “follow the good people†will be a much more reliable strategy for beginners. Even better, when a rookie gets himself killed doing something stupid he can rejoin his squad directly with the improved Infantry Portal instead of wandering through corridors by himself waiting to get picked off again. These two changes should maximize the amount of time new players spend under the protection and guidance of veterans, learning through observation and experience and maybe even stealing a few kills.
The biggest problem I see here is that, if NS 2 uses anything like the old resource system, new players won’t get to play with anything cool very often. They don’t get enough kills as Kharaa to earn higher life forms, Commanders can’t afford to trust them with equipment, and if they ever do get their hands on something they lose it as soon as they die. New players might have more fun if there was a selection of entertaining and inexpensive items that would be helpful in their hands but not worth the loss of a normal weapon for someone who could aim.
I won’t make too many suggestions here, but I’m thinking of things like a limited motion-tracker that takes their Pistol slot or an anti-building support weapon that’s fun and easy to use, but impractical against aliens; things that would make them useful to their squad without being completely stuck in the back row, a major resource liability, or a significant frustration to their enemies.
<b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Support Roles and Good Players<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
Part of the reason I’m writing this is that I’ve seen the general trend for making shooters more accessible is simply to make them easier. That seems like the kind of thing I should endorse as someone who’s not all that impressive themselves, but I’ve seen the beauty of a truly deep game played at high levels, and <i>that</i> is the kind of experience I want. The mental depth of a Quake duel gives the strategy nerd inside me a hard-on, and the interplay between the numerous different skills that must be mastered to play the game at its best only makes it all the more enticing. Every time you remove something simply to close the gap between the good and the bad, you cut out a piece of what makes a game worth playing in the long run.
Instead of toning the game down so that the average player can compete right out of the box, design a deep game with mechanisms to ease the transition. Don’t make Skulks bigger because rookies can’t aim or give them auto-bite because the timing is hard; design ways for them to contribute meaningfully <i>other</i> than straight-up deathmatching while allowing them to hone their skills. The game will be that much better for everybody in the long run.
This isn’t to say that every little glitch that experienced players learn to integrate into the game should be preserved for its own sake, regardless of balance, but simply that something shouldn’t be removed simply because new players can’t do it. Likewise, there’s no merit to pointless difficulty. I won’t shed a tear for the end labyrinthine maps consisting primarily of pointless corridors with no intuitive path from A to B. Understanding the tactical implications of the map layout is an important skill, but you shouldn’t have to fight the game just to find your way around. A perfect game should allow anybody to play and feel like they’re helping, but still leave room for everyone to get better.
<b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Final Statement<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
Obviously there won’t be easy answers to all of this and some compromises will have to be made, but if anyone cares about good games then these are the issues they have chosen to confront. Today, most developers take the easy way out, releasing shallow, aesthetically pleasing games that are lauded by the general public but can’t approach the legacy of the old classics. It seems that UWE has higher ambitions than that, and I would personally be very happy if they saw them through. Just remember that accessible need not equate to easy!
With all that said, what are people's opinions, both on on my own statements and how they can be applied to the development of this game?
Comments
You said Kharaa have less support roles. I think this is going to change now that most buildings are built by alien commander, not Gorge. Gorge can still heal, right ? Lerk Umbra ?
What do you mean by saying aliens have no commander ?
The real problem is coming with solutions though.
I'll probaly post some support role breakdown on NS' part at some point, but right now I'm happy to watch if this provokes some actual discussion. The start is good at least.
I mean, as an alien, your choices are to go skulk, or go gorge. You die a lot as skulk, so you try gorge - drop a sensory or movement chamber because you want to hide some stuff, and then get instantly banned jsut before everyone F4s.
-> I wouldn't compare it to Savage; while you could spend the entire game "contributing" to your team, it wasn't very deep. It held my interest for a few short weeks.
Unfortunately, the approach of NS2 design for new players was to make the base class, the skulk, much simpler and easier to play. It soaks up more damage, is slower, and you just hold "w" to move forward, then right-click when you see a marine, to leap and autobite with a single press of a button. What could have more "accessibility" than that?
Hopefully the other classes follow the reverse trend to compensate, because the NS1 skulk was a very deep class to play.
One thing I'm weirdly excited about in NS2, considering I main as fade in NS1 is the even more support oriented role of the gorge now that they have the stress of upholding the teching removed from the role and an increased combat presence. The new abilities really seem to bridge the gap in the ways you mentioned. The spit slowing marines in combination with a hopefully more aoe-like healspray and the damage soak all lend to getting more up in the action but if you want you can still stay behind and just heal and build if you're not so good.
That is also one of my most hated roles ever. Even being the building/welding person for NS was better than that, imo.
Back to the OP, very detailed and well thought out post. As others have said, we just need a good implementation of solutions.
Personally, I love being the healer. Must be a personality thing. My first games in NS were mostly spent being the Gorge. I was so good though that people would groan when they saw I was on Aliens and prepared to dish out shotguns to take me down and prevent me from making OC walls. Spit killing enemies was just icing. From that position, I learned the flow of the game and the roles of the different Aliens and such, and eventually once my base Skulk skills were good enough I started to branch out. I realize that many don't follow this setup, but just putting out there how I moved along in NS.
In TF2, I have by far the most hours on Medic. Something about getting a really good mate and going around pwning everyone while I keep our frontline killer buffed is pure joy for me. =]
The real problem is coming with solutions though.
I'll probaly post some support role breakdown on NS' part at some point, but right now I'm happy to watch if this provokes some actual discussion. The start is good at least.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right; it's one thing to acknowledge the issues, but we still need <i>solutions</i>. As an introspective rookie I can give good feedback into the parts of NS that are bewildering to new players, but since I barely understand the game I'm not in the best position to make suggestions. You and Homicide seem to be the resident NS Veterans with a vested interest in preserving the depth of the original, so I'm looking forwards to some good feedback from the two of you in particular.
We've gone over the problems already; you can eke out a bit of a support role as a Marine, but it's obvious that the game wasn't really designed with this in mind, and being an Alien pretty much drops you flat on your face. None of this is really all that fun for the average player who just wants to get a few kills. Actually surviving combat against experienced players requires a lot of skill, along with access to better weapons and lifeforms; rookies have neither, and the only real option is "get better". While this is certainly a reasonable goal, it leaves newbies frustratingly helpless in the short term.
With all that said, do any of you more experienced NS players have any ideas? We're looking for <i>fun</i> ways that new players can immediately begin contributing to the game, even if they have bad aim and don't know what they're doing. At the same time, we want to preserve the depth and skill-based play that made NS so popular. There is a small inherent contradiction to this, but I believe with good design we can come up with a solution that is better than the extremes of new players being Fade-Food or dumbing the game down to giant auto-biting Skulks.
Battlefield 2142 for me had one of the best healing roles in an FPS for me. The assault class was also the 'medic', which meant giving up some unlocks for a defibrillator. This meant that while you were somewhat of a bread-and-butter class, meaning you can cover your ass, you were just as effective scrambling around with a defibrillator and topping off everyone's health. You weren't helpless, but by and large your squad considered YOU to be more important than anyone else. When the squad leader was down, it was your job to get him back up.
HOWEVER, because the defib was one unlock, and the airburst rockets were moronically overpowered, this meant almost every assault class just took those two, which cheapened the role somewhat. But still.
Anyways... I found NS has less of an emphasis on teamwork than it used to (years ago , v1.04 to v2.01 days) and alien teamplay often falls to pieces indeed. It is also a pity that umbra got nerfed into the ground to accommodate competitive game balance.
Anyways... I found NS has less of an emphasis on teamwork than it used to (years ago , v1.04 to v2.01 days) and alien teamplay often falls to pieces indeed. It is also a pity that umbra got nerfed into the ground to accommodate competitive game balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually consider Lerk one of the hardest classes to play on Aliens - especially after they changed the flying model. All I mange to do is run into marines and come to a dead stop.
Most break them down in to two roles: Attacker/harasser or Vent Support.
The first one takes advantage of being a skulk with wings. Fly in quick, chomp their heads, get out. Maybe throw some Spores to soften them up. With Celerity and a MC somewhere nearby, you can be a deadly force.
The other role is what I have most noobs play if they don't want to be the pudgy Gorge. Spore and Umbra from the vents, get Adren, and keep those Marines in serious trouble while buffing the other attackers. Then the pros leap in with Focus bite when the Marines have no Armor.
I actually like the newer fly model. Gliding has a fun strategic depth to it. Granted, you can't pancake as well anymore, but that was serious borkenness.
I find the best games are when the Aliens start talking and team up in great ways. A Gorge feints and draw Marines in to a Skulk ambush is the classic one, and it never gets old. However, perhaps the more recent gameplay model for quicker games has let the Aliens take a more rambo approach, but there are still great rewards for strong teamwork in Aliens.
One of the biggest turn offs about games is the rude people. Y'know, the guys who always belittle the new players and expect them to know exactly how everything works, what gear to use in what order and what paths to take when and where? I can't even begin to tell how many games I've quit because of those kinds of people.
Many people play different games for alot of different reasons and they are paying players just like me. They want to play the game their way (just like me) within the limits of the game... Sometimes they just don't have the time or gumption to learn everything there is to know about this specific game... I know I don't. Much of the time I could care less about winning.
So if I was to make a suggestion about how to make the game easier on the newcomers (like me). I would suggest newb servers. So we could learn at our own pace. However long it may take. ( For most games, it usually takes me until the next game comes out to finally start getting good at a game)
Another suggestion would be to let players play the role they wanna play... If there is 10 roles to play, it might take quite a while for them to get the knack of one they enjoy. If the team is unbalanced because their is no medic or whatever have you, then so be it... That in my opinion is where the fun is at... Not in precision planning or the perfect team. But precision planning and winning is fun too, I like to do it that way also, just not to the extent that that is the only way to play.
I love it when people get a wild hair up their --- and just go tearing off on some crazy suicide run. I do it just to see what happens.
Yeah, I reckon the bottom line is make it so anybody can play any role anytime... if 5 troopers wanna go at it without and engineer or medic, I think that'd work out pretty good... even if the strategy is all wrong.
In my opinion, the less griping between players there is, the more fun everyone will have.
That's all fine with me, really. It's like having an autopilot that isn't at all optimal, but does passably on its own.
What I mean is that it might be easy to learn, hard to master.
What I mean is that it might be easy to learn, hard to master.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FYI, autobite is removed. It was only briefly tested and discarded. [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107720&view=findpost&p=1734314" target="_blank">source</a>]
Battlegorging with good teamwork is nice. You're baiting, distracting, reducing armor and forcing medpacks by default already. Combine that with decent skulk support and you can lead the rushes as a makeshift meatshield. Whenever marines trying to hold a room, skulklift gets you into nice spit positions. Later on bbomb blows up tons of mines on PGs and focus allows you to deal even more damage with minimal adren usage.
It's also cool how a single gorge can blow up 4 mines on a PG by spitting one and then just crashing into PG while healspraying. The following skulks will be happy if you get all 4.
Doesn't really change what I said though. Autopilot was just a word.
No but the person you were quoting was under the impression autobite was still in as well
One of the biggest turn offs about games is the rude people. Y'know, the guys who always belittle the new players and expect them to know exactly how everything works, what gear to use in what order and what paths to take when and where? I can't even begin to tell how many games I've quit because of those kinds of people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't recommended any of my friends to try out NS1 for a preview of NS2 due to the few populated servers having exactly that kind of behavior due to the games age. Since each player really does affect the outcome in NS1 it is not surprising.