<!--quoteo(post=1726244:date=Sep 6 2009, 01:48 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Sep 6 2009, 01:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I ask because I have a lovely idea for a cooperative gamemode which would involve large maps and huge concentrations of possible data, to create randomised layouts, by spawning in different rooms and wall sections to change the entire structure of an area each time the game is played, like spawning in a wall to make a long corridor short and replacing some sections with doors that lead into a randomly selected room etc. I could do all of this in hammer but the lighting model would produce horrible looking errors and the sheer amount of data would make the game explode if I ever tried to load the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have had similar idea, but I thought it was impossible to create. It would be interesting to let map itself create the layout each time it is played.
Edit:
Oh, I wish they release these tools soonish. I have been playing with Hammer couple of months and prepairing for ns2
<!--quoteo(post=1726316:date=Sep 6 2009, 04:00 PM:name=Tom Hoen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom Hoen @ Sep 6 2009, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726316"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have had similar idea, but I thought it was impossible to create. It would be interesting to let map itself create the layout each time it is played.
Edit:
Oh, I wish they release these tools soonish. I have been playing with Hammer couple of months and prepairing for ns2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it shouldn't be that impossible, I mean assuming NS has the HL2 and HL functionality of being able to declare sets of brushes and models as having names and then using another entity to spawn them. All you really have to do is then randomise the selection using logic entities and, of course, have the map not crash as a result of having too much data in it.
I have never ever done any kind of mapping or coding in my life, am i still able to toy with that mappingtool when it comes out with alpha? Or will it look totally alien for me?
<!--quoteo(post=1726329:date=Sep 6 2009, 12:18 PM:name=Onozki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onozki @ Sep 6 2009, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have never ever done any kind of mapping or coding in my life, am i still able to toy with that mappingtool when it comes out with alpha? Or will it look totally alien for me?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm gonna guess that it'll feel very similar to most mapping systems. So, just like any mapping tool, it will appear initially alien but if you play around a bit it should be intuitive enough to figure out. If you've used a CAD program before, it will be a little easier, but not a huge amount. Find a nice tutorial or bug people in IRC to help teach you.
I doubt they will be forcing any coding upon you if all you want to do is map.
<!--quoteo(post=1726329:date=Sep 6 2009, 06:18 PM:name=Onozki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onozki @ Sep 6 2009, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have never ever done any kind of mapping or coding in my life, am i still able to toy with that mappingtool when it comes out with alpha? Or will it look totally alien for me?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> People manage to configure and run relatively complex Hammer editor without much experience on anything. That takes some guidance of course, but I'm confident you'll find help and guides on forums and IRC.
So, with a little bit of patience you should create your first room in no time. Creating cool stuff takes longer of course.
<!--quoteo(post=1726329:date=Sep 6 2009, 06:18 PM:name=Onozki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onozki @ Sep 6 2009, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have never ever done any kind of mapping or coding in my life, am i still able to toy with that mappingtool when it comes out with alpha? Or will it look totally alien for me?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I started 3d work in hammer, it took me about 2 years to get good at it, although I was doing complex entity work after a few weeks.
It's not that hard to learn to use a tool usually, but learning the methods to produce good stuff takes a lot of practise.
It's like the difference between making a noise with a guitar and playing greensleeves.
Doubtless however there'll be lots of fun things to mess around with, I find mapping fun even if I don't play or even release what I made, the development and trying new things out and getting better all the time is worthwhile.
If you have access to it (through Steam) boot up the Hammer Editor and just mess about in that for a while. At least get the concepts down of what is entailed and when it comes time to using another editor the fundamentals of map-making are there, even if the processes behind making one in the editor you use are different.
<!--quoteo(post=1725843:date=Sep 1 2009, 07:13 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Sep 1 2009, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725843"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Multiple people editing the map while the game is running? Hmm... sounds like an interesting game in itself. Use up res to modify (add or substract) a certain amount (volume) of geometry ftw. The possibilities seem endless!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you just described Garrys Mod... specifically SpaceBuild + WireMod :P
The thing that worries me is models. I think if u want to do really nice map u will have to do models as well and i can't work on 3D Max it is to complicated. But i know how to work on Hammer i have done some maps
<!--quoteo(post=1726444:date=Sep 8 2009, 07:41 AM:name=Skyforger2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skyforger2 @ Sep 8 2009, 07:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The thing that worries me is models. I think if u want to do really nice map u will have to do models as well and i can't work on 3D Max it is to complicated. But i know how to work on Hammer i have done some maps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The amount of custom maps I've seen for L4D / HL2 and game mode mods using default models is beyond belief.
So what if you have half the textures from refinery set and half the textures from biodome set in your map? So long as you make it a unique gameplay experience that's what counts! Of course some level of detail but *shrug*
If you want to get into modeling, take a look at Blender and set some time aside to download and watch <a href="http://blenderunderground.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3443" target="_blank">these VERY indepth videos</a> I'm done the first two videos (2 hours and 20 minutes (roughly)) and have another 4 hours (approx) to go. The interface looks complicated when you start it up yes, but trust me... go through those videos and you'll be going "AHH! It's so common sense!"
Another little thing I'd love to see in your map editor is a "lock vertex" toggle for displacement meshes. I can't count the number of times I've been moving one vertex in Hammer and it switches to one across the map on its own...would need to be a toggle because there are times you want to edit larger areas at once
I hope importing models is as easy as Unreal Ed (Though I can imagine it is with the dev video on textures), model scaling inside the editor would be the icing on the cake.
<!--quoteo(post=1726468:date=Sep 8 2009, 11:52 AM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Sep 8 2009, 11:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another little thing I'd love to see in your map editor is a "lock vertex" toggle for displacement meshes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Building on this, I've been starting to learn Blender and the awesome way they do vertex manipulation is not by clicking and dragging, but by allowing you to (sure click on the vertex initially with the mouse) but then movement / rotation / scale is all managed via keypresses.
So click a vertex > Press G, you can now move that vertex freely depending on your view. OR if you want, press either Z X or Y to lock movement to one of the appropriate axis for movement.
<!--quoteo(post=1726444:date=Sep 7 2009, 09:41 PM:name=Skyforger2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skyforger2 @ Sep 7 2009, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The thing that worries me is models. I think if u want to do really nice map u will have to do models as well and i can't work on 3D Max it is to complicated. But i know how to work on Hammer i have done some maps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Half life 2 has had its models adapted to a boatload of things, and it's not as if they are even designed to work together a lot of the time.
Combining brushwork with models allows you to make a lot of stuff, and UWE seems to be going to great lengths to make their props interchangeable, so I imagine it's going to be pretty damn good. Especially as they seem to be making lots of things like pipe segment props you can fix together like legos to make whatever pipe you want, things like that are ace and HL2 doesn't have many of them, UWE seems to be doing it with whole corridors.
Also consider that it's reasonable to assume they've thought of a better system than valve's displacements, or at least something a lot less difficult to use and with better tools, so that greatly expands the capabilites of non-model geometry, and of course you've got your dynamic lighting which opens up a load more possibilities as it means you get pixel-accurate shadows, which can totally transform a room, breaking up textures and adding loads of detail. If they stick their groovy sunbeams tech into their point lights you could even have light shafts and things criss crossing your room, and all the particle effects they'll doubtless be using for their maps.
Basically if you want to make another NS map, there's almost certainly going to be an abundance of content from the exisitng maps to rearrange and make something cool with. And your brushwork can compliment that marvellously.
Oh, and releasing the source for at least one of the official maps would be full of awesome...It helped soooooo much with Left 4 Dead, because I can see by example how to do a lot of the tricks those maps use
<!--quoteo(post=1726485:date=Sep 8 2009, 03:57 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Sep 8 2009, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726485"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, and releasing the source for at least one of the official maps would be full of awesome...It helped soooooo much with Left 4 Dead, because I can see by example how to do a lot of the tricks those maps use<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There will be documentation and examples!!!
Just need them at time (or a day or two before) so can translate it onto the wiki :P
<!--quoteo(post=1726468:date=Sep 7 2009, 08:52 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Sep 7 2009, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another little thing I'd love to see in your map editor is a "lock vertex" toggle for displacement meshes. I can't count the number of times I've been moving one vertex in Hammer and it switches to one across the map on its own...would need to be a toggle because there are times you want to edit larger areas at once<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is actually a cool idea, like having a tool that allows you to select active working area (either top-down or making a 3D-cube) so you don't get that annoying missclickage.
<!--quoteo(post=1726485:date=Sep 8 2009, 12:57 AM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Sep 8 2009, 12:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726485"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, and releasing the source for at least one of the official maps would be full of awesome...It helped soooooo much with Left 4 Dead, because I can see by example how to do a lot of the tricks those maps use<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 to this notion. Open sourcing a map is a tremendous help to those learning how to map (or even to those who know how to map but want to learn the intricacies of a new game / mod) and it's a nice gesture to the community as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1726605:date=Sep 9 2009, 08:21 AM:name=PseudoKnight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PseudoKnight @ Sep 9 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726605"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Without compiling, open source may be the inherent state of an NS2 map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a good point...
Certainly it should be decompileable very easily, I would imagine, if the editor is wysiwig. Although there would probably be some sort of compile process which concatenates the geometry, cuts out not-shown areas etc, or perhaps the game does it when you load the level.
<!--quoteo(post=1726451:date=Sep 7 2009, 07:27 PM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Sep 7 2009, 07:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you want to get into modeling, take a look at Blender and set some time aside to download and watch <a href="http://blenderunderground.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3443" target="_blank">these VERY indepth videos</a> I'm done the first two videos (2 hours and 20 minutes (roughly)) and have another 4 hours (approx) to go. The interface looks complicated when you start it up yes, but trust me... go through those videos and you'll be going "AHH! It's so common sense!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh my god that link, I've been working with Blender lately (I love it) and this is so usefull. Thank you!
<!--quoteo(post=1726691:date=Sep 9 2009, 02:48 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Sep 9 2009, 02:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game handles occlusion culling on the fly<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know, but if it's brush based that means faces will probably be coplanar, for example if I make a floor, then I put two walls on top of it, the bottom faces of the walls will be coplanar to the floor, and therefore should never be rendered. In source these faces are removed entirely during BSP compile phase. The same goes for the exterior faces of the level. Most important are things like, for example, if I put the walls either side of the floor, because then the bottom part of those faces would need to be removed.
Either you'll have to manually texture these so they don't render, or the game does it automatically somehow, or there are going to be some serious construction rules when building level geometry. As it's going to be the same every time (you would never ever render a coplanar face) it <i>should</i> be done before runtime, because it saves runtime calculations that way.
<!--quoteo(post=1726753:date=Sep 9 2009, 08:28 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Sep 9 2009, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726753"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know, but if it's brush based that means faces will probably be coplanar, for example if I make a floor, then I put two walls on top of it, the bottom faces of the walls will be coplanar to the floor, and therefore should never be rendered. In source these faces are removed entirely during BSP compile phase. The same goes for the exterior faces of the level. Most important are things like, for example, if I put the walls either side of the floor, because then the bottom part of those faces would need to be removed.
Either you'll have to manually texture these so they don't render, or the game does it automatically somehow, or there are going to be some serious construction rules when building level geometry. As it's going to be the same every time (you would never ever render a coplanar face) it <i>should</i> be done before runtime, because it saves runtime calculations that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, I see what you were talking about now...don't know how the engine will handle it though
I am definitely excited, and looking forward to contributing my mapping knowledge, for this new editor. I already have a few good ideas for some maps. Also, it is good to see friendly faces of some "old timers" like Scoot! :P
<!--quoteo(post=1726765:date=Sep 10 2009, 12:20 AM:name=Xuaxinodal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xuaxinodal @ Sep 10 2009, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726765"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am definitely excited, and looking forward to contributing my mapping knowledge, for this new editor. I already have a few good ideas for some maps. Also, it is good to see friendly faces of some "old timers" like Scoot! :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woohoo that's who I was waiting for! How've you been sir?! It's been years since our days at NSA huh? You'll definitely have to fill me in soon before we get back to work on some NS2 co-operative mapping.
Webstore still going strong? (Didn't it have something to do with goats?)
I am definitely looking forward to seeing you around the Alpha my friend.
<!--quoteo(post=1726781:date=Sep 10 2009, 12:11 AM:name=Invader_Scoot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Invader_Scoot @ Sep 10 2009, 12:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Woohoo that's who I was waiting for! How've you been sir?! It's been years since our days at NSA huh? You'll definitely have to fill me in soon before we get back to work on some NS2 co-operative mapping.
Webstore still going strong? (Didn't it have something to do with goats?)
I am definitely looking forward to seeing you around the Alpha my friend.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wait, wait wait. you guys are from NSA? I guess my memory fails. I played on their server for a long time. Even got myself an honorary contributor slot.
On topic. I remember going through the old HL mapping tutorials. That stuff was fun. Is there going to be anything similar for the NS2 mapping tools?
<!--quoteo(post=1726788:date=Sep 10 2009, 07:57 PM:name=[WHO]Mr.Black)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([WHO]Mr.Black @ Sep 10 2009, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Wait, wait wait. you guys are from NSA? I guess my memory fails. I played on their server for a long time. Even got myself an honorary contributor slot.
On topic. I remember going through the old HL mapping tutorials. That stuff was fun. Is there going to be anything similar for the NS2 mapping tools?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If not straight away, definately will be not long after launch ASAP after tools are available.
Comments
I have had similar idea, but I thought it was impossible to create. It would be interesting to let map itself create the layout each time it is played.
Edit:
Oh, I wish they release these tools soonish. I have been playing with Hammer couple of months and prepairing for ns2
Edit:
Oh, I wish they release these tools soonish. I have been playing with Hammer couple of months and prepairing for ns2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it shouldn't be that impossible, I mean assuming NS has the HL2 and HL functionality of being able to declare sets of brushes and models as having names and then using another entity to spawn them. All you really have to do is then randomise the selection using logic entities and, of course, have the map not crash as a result of having too much data in it.
I'm gonna guess that it'll feel very similar to most mapping systems. So, just like any mapping tool, it will appear initially alien but if you play around a bit it should be intuitive enough to figure out. If you've used a CAD program before, it will be a little easier, but not a huge amount. Find a nice tutorial or bug people in IRC to help teach you.
I doubt they will be forcing any coding upon you if all you want to do is map.
People manage to configure and run relatively complex Hammer editor without much experience on anything. That takes some guidance of course, but I'm confident you'll find help and guides on forums and IRC.
So, with a little bit of patience you should create your first room in no time. Creating cool stuff takes longer of course.
I started 3d work in hammer, it took me about 2 years to get good at it, although I was doing complex entity work after a few weeks.
It's not that hard to learn to use a tool usually, but learning the methods to produce good stuff takes a lot of practise.
It's like the difference between making a noise with a guitar and playing greensleeves.
Doubtless however there'll be lots of fun things to mess around with, I find mapping fun even if I don't play or even release what I made, the development and trying new things out and getting better all the time is worthwhile.
I think you just described Garrys Mod... specifically SpaceBuild + WireMod :P
The amount of custom maps I've seen for L4D / HL2 and game mode mods using default models is beyond belief.
So what if you have half the textures from refinery set and half the textures from biodome set in your map? So long as you make it a unique gameplay experience that's what counts! Of course some level of detail but *shrug*
If you want to get into modeling, take a look at Blender and set some time aside to download and watch <a href="http://blenderunderground.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3443" target="_blank">these VERY indepth videos</a> I'm done the first two videos (2 hours and 20 minutes (roughly)) and have another 4 hours (approx) to go. The interface looks complicated when you start it up yes, but trust me... go through those videos and you'll be going "AHH! It's so common sense!"
Building on this, I've been starting to learn Blender and the awesome way they do vertex manipulation is not by clicking and dragging, but by allowing you to (sure click on the vertex initially with the mouse) but then movement / rotation / scale is all managed via keypresses.
So click a vertex > Press G, you can now move that vertex freely depending on your view.
OR if you want, press either Z X or Y to lock movement to one of the appropriate axis for movement.
Same thing goes for rotation ® and scale (S).
Half life 2 has had its models adapted to a boatload of things, and it's not as if they are even designed to work together a lot of the time.
Combining brushwork with models allows you to make a lot of stuff, and UWE seems to be going to great lengths to make their props interchangeable, so I imagine it's going to be pretty damn good. Especially as they seem to be making lots of things like pipe segment props you can fix together like legos to make whatever pipe you want, things like that are ace and HL2 doesn't have many of them, UWE seems to be doing it with whole corridors.
Also consider that it's reasonable to assume they've thought of a better system than valve's displacements, or at least something a lot less difficult to use and with better tools, so that greatly expands the capabilites of non-model geometry, and of course you've got your dynamic lighting which opens up a load more possibilities as it means you get pixel-accurate shadows, which can totally transform a room, breaking up textures and adding loads of detail. If they stick their groovy sunbeams tech into their point lights you could even have light shafts and things criss crossing your room, and all the particle effects they'll doubtless be using for their maps.
Basically if you want to make another NS map, there's almost certainly going to be an abundance of content from the exisitng maps to rearrange and make something cool with. And your brushwork can compliment that marvellously.
There will be documentation and examples!!!
Just need them at time (or a day or two before) so can translate it onto the wiki :P
That is actually a cool idea, like having a tool that allows you to select active working area (either top-down or making a 3D-cube) so you don't get that annoying missclickage.
+1 to this notion. Open sourcing a map is a tremendous help to those learning how to map (or even to those who know how to map but want to learn the intricacies of a new game / mod) and it's a nice gesture to the community as well.
That's a good point...
Certainly it should be decompileable very easily, I would imagine, if the editor is wysiwig. Although there would probably be some sort of compile process which concatenates the geometry, cuts out not-shown areas etc, or perhaps the game does it when you load the level.
Oh my god that link, I've been working with Blender lately (I love it) and this is so usefull. Thank you!
I know, but if it's brush based that means faces will probably be coplanar, for example if I make a floor, then I put two walls on top of it, the bottom faces of the walls will be coplanar to the floor, and therefore should never be rendered. In source these faces are removed entirely during BSP compile phase. The same goes for the exterior faces of the level. Most important are things like, for example, if I put the walls either side of the floor, because then the bottom part of those faces would need to be removed.
Either you'll have to manually texture these so they don't render, or the game does it automatically somehow, or there are going to be some serious construction rules when building level geometry. As it's going to be the same every time (you would never ever render a coplanar face) it <i>should</i> be done before runtime, because it saves runtime calculations that way.
Either you'll have to manually texture these so they don't render, or the game does it automatically somehow, or there are going to be some serious construction rules when building level geometry. As it's going to be the same every time (you would never ever render a coplanar face) it <i>should</i> be done before runtime, because it saves runtime calculations that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, I see what you were talking about now...don't know how the engine will handle it though
Woohoo that's who I was waiting for! How've you been sir?! It's been years since our days at NSA huh? You'll definitely have to fill me in soon before we get back to work on some NS2 co-operative mapping.
Webstore still going strong? (Didn't it have something to do with goats?)
I am definitely looking forward to seeing you around the Alpha my friend.
Webstore still going strong? (Didn't it have something to do with goats?)
I am definitely looking forward to seeing you around the Alpha my friend.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait, wait wait. you guys are from NSA? I guess my memory fails. I played on their server for a long time. Even got myself an honorary contributor slot.
On topic. I remember going through the old HL mapping tutorials. That stuff was fun. Is there going to be anything similar for the NS2 mapping tools?
Wait, wait wait. you guys are from NSA? I guess my memory fails. I played on their server for a long time. Even got myself an honorary contributor slot.
On topic. I remember going through the old HL mapping tutorials. That stuff was fun. Is there going to be anything similar for the NS2 mapping tools?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If not straight away, definately will be not long after launch ASAP after tools are available.