802.11n and YOU

remi

<div class="IPBDescription">Really, I mean me. And video games. Tell me a story.</div>So I'm moving into a house which has no CAT5 ports. There will be 5 people living in the house. Previous tenants have just used wireless internet, but they also weren't power users. I know that on 802.11g I experience a lot of packet loss and choke when I play TF2, so I've started considering getting an 802.11n router and adapter.

Some specific questions:
1. Is interference from other networks a bigger problem than with b/g?
2. How does 802.11n perform while playing Video Games?
3. Is it more/less prone to dropping your connection than b/g?
4. Does anyone have any recommendation for a good n router (newegg link plz)?
5. Is it worth the cost?
6. ???

Thanks for the help.

Faskalia

Few basics:

n Draft is specced for roughly 300mbit/s so you can expect to get 80 mbit/s under normal circumstances.

Problem will mainly be:

Cut through or store n forward?

If you choose cut through you will be seriously hamped by a sucky connection.
If you choose store and forward you can expect to add 20ms to your ping, if you choose a premium product. Worst case would be a cheap store n forward solution and an added 60ms to your ping.
-------------------------------

As for N draft:
There are no additonal error correction protocols that come into play. Its pretty much just a speed improvement over g.

Just remeber that consumer AP usually are not able to speak 2 drafts at once. So if you connect a g and a n device to your n AP it will talk to both devices with g.

Personally I would go with d-link, IF you are willing to get dlink NICS for your PCs as well and if you can life with sucky web interfaces and only telnet access for premium products.
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Question time:

1: N is more negatively impacted by interference from g/b, than g/b from n or g from b. However N interfering woth another N is usually no problem, unless you have 4+ other networks running on the same channel.
2: The same as G under perfect conditions.
3: You can get more range from N, so it is less prone to signal dropping.
4:D-Link DIR-855
5:Depends if g gives you good performance you will only profit from the increased bandwith, but thats usually irrelevant to games.
6: All stupid questions, cause you cannot really answer them with yes or no :(

SentrySteve

I tried to use a wireless router so that I could connect a Wii and PS3 to the internet. I used a standard Linksys G router and I thought it sucked. Even when the gaming console's were not on my download speed was destroyed. I could really feel my connection being split.

Is N the same way? I've heard it's amazingly faster, but I don't want to dish out $80 for an N router to be disappointed. Also, I've heard that if you connect any G devices to an N router, the whole network will be reduced to G speeds while that G device is online. If this is true, that would make N worthless to me as the PS3 / Wii use G adapters. Is that true?

[WHO]Them

In the past I've found that a spool of cat5 and a power drill is a good solution to being in a home with no ethernet ports.

KungFuDiscoMonkey

If you're that concerned about having the best connection, you would likely be better off running a cable, even if it's exposed on the floor. As with everything it's a trade off. Speed vs convenience. If nothing else, try to position yourself in your new house so that you're close to the router so you can run a cable for your stuff.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1722904:date=Aug 14 2009, 04:33 PM:name=[WHO]Them)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([WHO]Them @ Aug 14 2009, 04:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
In the past I've found that a spool of cat5 and a power drill is a good solution to being in a home with no ethernet ports.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha, but I'm in L.A. and the walls are made of some material that would crack and make a big mess... Plus it's a violation of my lease.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1722905:date=Aug 14 2009, 04:36 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Aug 14 2009, 04:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722905"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're that concerned about having the best connection, you would likely be better off running a cable, even if it's exposed on the floor. As with everything it's a trade off. Speed vs convenience. If nothing else, try to position yourself in your new house so that you're close to the router so you can run a cable for your stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I was considering, but I don't know if my flat-mates will be chill with it.

Faskalia

<!--quoteo(post=1722902:date=Aug 14 2009, 10:27 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Aug 14 2009, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, I've heard that if you connect any G devices to an N router, the whole network will be reduced to G speeds while that G device is online. If this is true, that would make N worthless to me as the PS3 / Wii use G adapters. Is that true?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thats true for pretty much any consumer AP.
So unless you are willing to pay 300+ $ for an AP you will be stuck with the draft of the slowest device in your network.

lolfighter

Run CAT5 along the baseboards. It's more effort than setting up a wireless network, but well worth it. Better performance, better reliability, easier to troubleshoot. Get a spool, some connectors and a quality crimp tool and get crimpin'. You won't regret it.

Scythe

I recently forked out for 305m of CAT5e cable, ten double wall plates, 20 RJ45 CAT5e sockets and a 24-port CAT5e patch panel. I'm wiring up my new house <b>right</b>. I've drilled up through the floors into the walls, run the cable and mounted a plate in every room. I built myself a patch panel enclosure from 12mm MDF, with little wooden slots to hold the patch panel in place, and I'm going to mount that on the wall downstairs and put the router inside it. RJ11 plugs (phone plugs) can plug straight into RJ45 sockets so I can use this for phone lines too. I'll post pics once it's all set up. Well worth doing, CAT5e can handle gigabit ethernet well enough.

--Scythe--

Rob

<!--quoteo(post=1722972:date=Aug 15 2009, 09:08 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Aug 15 2009, 09:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722972"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I recently forked out for 305m of CAT5e cable, ten double wall plates, 20 RJ45 CAT5e sockets and a 24-port CAT5e patch panel. I'm wiring up my new house <b>right</b>. I've drilled up through the floors into the walls, run the cable and mounted a plate in every room. I built myself a patch panel enclosure from 12mm MDF, with little wooden slots to hold the patch panel in place, and I'm going to mount that on the wall downstairs and put the router inside it. RJ11 plugs (phone plugs) can plug straight into RJ45 sockets so I can use this for phone lines too. I'll post pics once it's all set up. Well worth doing, CAT5e can handle gigabit ethernet well enough.

--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Don't be coy now; what you're really doing is laying the ground work so that Skynet can use your house as a base of operations. Just admit it. You're a cyborg sympathizer.

remi

If I could I would be running cables through the walls, but that's just not an option.

I was hoping 802.11n might be an easier solution (as I don't have to worry about the landlord / flatmates being irritated with a cord running next to the walls or something)

Faskalia

<!--quoteo(post=1722993:date=Aug 15 2009, 07:00 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Aug 15 2009, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722993"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I could I would be running cables through the walls, but that's just not an option.

I was hoping 802.11n might be an easier solution (as I don't have to worry about the landlord / flatmates being irritated with a cord running next to the walls or something)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Dlan is also an option, if you do not need mobility.

But the prices are rather hefty.

Talesin

802.11n is an improvement primarily in range; less throughput increase. Wall penetration is only slightly better than a <b>good</b> G router, with a proper high-gain antenna setup and correct placement.

That said, wireless is NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PERIOD how you want to distribute a connection through a house, unless you have ONE machine using it, and at most two with no file transfer between the two machines ever. The 54mbps advertised is shared; incorporating all uploads and downloads, including the ACKs for each download. When transferring a file between two machines on the same AP, you'll end up with roughly 1/4 the speed at best, especially with the Windows NetBIOS overhead. AT BEST you might want to set up a private channel and get a pair of routers that can act as a wireless ethernet bridge, and put them on a totally seperate channel if you can find one, keeping everything on either end hardwired.

Fortunately, before moving away I was a network installer in the LA area for about eight years. So there are a number of tricks... the one that is a never-fail being to get coaxial retainer tacks... itty-bitty nails with a plastic hook, used to keep CATV coaxial cables in place (usually). They're also excellent for running one (or two with a wedge) CAT-5 line(s) along baseboards. Can get them at Home Depot, Lowes, and Fry's.. about $5 for a 100-pack. To cross a doorway, can either loop up and over entirely using retainers, or if there's carpet present use a straightened-out wire coat hanger and some electrical tape to sneak it under the carpet. Hardwood is harder; usually have to go up and over, pry up the moulding around the door (do NOT do this unless you know what you'e doing, it can screw it up BADLY) as there's usually a cutout inside you can hide wiring in, or buy a cable trough rubberized step-guard/antitrip mat to go straight across.
If you think your landlord won't notice, you can use masking tape/bluetack to reduce or eliminate cracking when drilling through a plaster or stucco wall with a masonry bit, then insert a cable TV pierce grommet to eliminate any further cracking once the cable is through. I've only had one landlord even notice that it wasn't there before.


PS- Do NOT go for Powerline Networking adapters. They cause an unbelievable amount of RF interference, an unstable connection, and make me want to punch the inventor in the face with something sharp as I was stuck cleaning up after their mess in countless offices, homes and apartments.

Tesseract

You could use the old rock'n'roll method of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape" target="_blank">gaffer taping</a> the cat5 cable around the place.