ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1721658:date=Aug 9 2009, 08:33 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Aug 9 2009, 08:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh... yeah... that confused the heck out of me :s
I don't know how much steve paid for those hulks but they were infinitely better than any of the weapons we managed to buy :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, sorta.
I could take them down given time, but that makes them horribly good for timed defense maps (like what that map is). They couldn't catch up to me and the toxin gun seemed to be effective against them. I am also not sure but I think that the game does have locational damage, specifically the rear of those hulks....
after that initial rush where they stomped us I didn't really try fighting them, just abusing the speed difference. But when we had to get to that point and steve had covered it in them I was trying for headshots and stuff with no noticeable effect. I didn't try to shoot them in the back though :p
I dunno, it seems like a unique game, i like how they pit rts playing style against fps on either team. I dont think you can really compare it to ns, the art style is too busy and takes away from the final product and makes it look kinda cheesy.
<!--quoteo(post=1721658:date=Aug 9 2009, 08:33 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Aug 9 2009, 08:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know how much steve paid for those hulks but they were infinitely better than any of the weapons we managed to buy :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I paid like 200 e-credits for them? In the game they're free, you just build them. They probably took up more pop than other units, though.
That one map that we kept playing had really really low pop limit, which was strange.
Also, I couldn't build any buildings so the whole "RTS" aspect kind of sucked. The design of the game was disappointing and at no point did I feel like I was playing an RTS.
my cruddy 6 shot 'assault rifle' (actually a sniper rifle) cost me 200 whatevers and was fairly useless :p
Most of the rather good looking guns say they're cumbersome on them so I avoided them incase they slowed my character down (I'm all about the speed! :D ) Maybe next time I'll try one though... the text might be lying after all :p
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
it is like old CS, the lighter the gun in your hands the faster you move.
that was why I was carrying around the Gatling gun and and something else (be it the toxic one or the grenade launcher).
So, I was bored yesterday and poked around at a bunch of different things, but mainly at the 4 man assault thing we tried before. I was able to get to the same place we got to together, in the same amount of time. The difference was that I was carrying actually useful guns and decent armour. I could drop the artillery pieces almost instantly, and anything that wasn't the artillery pieces couldn't really do enough damage to me (the 2nd zone was hard due to not being able to actually shoot at the artillery). I was even able to drop one of the GIANT rolly things before it killed me, however it was RIGHT before it would kill me and right after that a full new line would spawn, so I wasn't able to actually do anything.
However I learned a few things: 1) Against light mobs a decent set of armour is kinda amazing. 2) I am nearly positive there is locational damage now. The targets we are supposed to kill would open and close, and you get a distinctly different hit effect when you fire at them when they are open, and I am fairly sure that I could drop them much faster by only shooting when they are open. I got the same hit effect (it looks kinda like what happens when you shoot a hive, those yellowish explosions) when I shot the behemoths in the back.
Other things I picked up: 1) there is a mission sequence that rewards you for doing random things that don't require playing with people so I sorta poked through it. These included using quick join (this is the first one), recording a video, and some others. They reward you with gold and XP. 2) if you aren't picky and just want to futz about with different toys then you should buy the boxes of random loots as they are worth well more than what you pay for them.
I dono, I could see the game being a fun little diversion if there were actually a good number of players....
So, I tried this for a while. It might have been interesting had there been players, but at most there were four of us. We tried some of the cooperative gamemodes. Somewhat confusing, but I would've wanted to try it out properly.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2009
Aw and here I was, hoping to see some epic battles with a few good men battling against an overwhelming swarm of aliens with our backs against a wall. While only our bullets firing in succession into the oncoming mass is what stops the enemy from advancing and completely wiping us from the map. However we can't keep this up due to our ammo, which is starting to run out. We need something to happen, either a supply drop, which is currently not possible, since our radio is jammed and we cannot reach our or squad. We got separated earlier.
But what's this, we hear some radio static! It seems our other squad has heard the explosions from our current battle from afar and send in a recon unit. Which is just enough of a distracting for the alien players, long enough for us to create a hole in their offensive lines. Before the recon bot was destroyed it did send us a coordinate, could this be the other squad's location?
We are almost clear and going for higher ground, but wait another alien player comes along and pursues us up the hill, we find a building with a dodgy looking vehicle next to it. Arriving at the jeeplike thing we try to start it, it seems it still "runs" and manage to escape the ground units, for now... The aliens now change their tactics and order in flying fortresses to transport their swarm. Now the race is on, can we reach our other squad and have them maybe take the battle to the aliens, while we rearm and regroup! We have no idea what their status is, but judging from the recon unit, it is probably somewhat better then our situation! We are battling it out with our flimsy recon jeep versus the huge flying beasts. Let's hope that recon bot was send in to find us, instead of looking for reinforcements!
<!--quoteo(post=1721876:date=Aug 11 2009, 06:00 AM:name=Retales)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Retales @ Aug 11 2009, 06:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, I tried this for a while. It might have been interesting had there been players, but at most there were four of us. We tried some of the cooperative gamemodes. Somewhat confusing, but I would've wanted to try it out properly.
So install this thing and lets get a game going.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
8/8/09: The day Flayra killed NS2 by pimping a similar game.
<!--quoteo(post=1721901:date=Aug 11 2009, 01:17 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Aug 11 2009, 01:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->8/8/09: The day Flayra killed NS2 by pimping a similar game.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha-ha, fat chance!
I can't really see myself being interested in this game for a long time (like I expect to be interested in NS2), but I still feel like trying it out properly.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited August 2009
So, I got in a bunch of games last night (the community is sorta growing, peaking around 7 EST).
All of my predictions were correct, especially in regards to balancing FPS vs RTS.
The Bugs are slow, dumb, and inefficient by them selves. The only possible way of killing a human is swarming him with HUGE numbers of powered up bugs, and even there a decent FPSer will still win. Seriously, playing as bugs just sucks. I haven't seen them win yet since we tried playing the game properly. The flip side is that most of the human only maps are ridiculously hard, and the bug only map is tower defense. It ultimately boiled down to playing in practice mode with the maps that have humans vs humans, and then now one would play against me because my gear was far superior.
Which brings me to the next point: the game is HEAVILY gear dependent, and you can only get some of the best gear via the cash shop or random drops (you have a better bet buying boxes from the cash shop). This is fine for now since we were all given 1000 cash shop points, but for when the cash shop actually goes live it is kinda silly. Yes, there is some gear that rivals the cash shop stuff, but the price in gold is ridiculous, and it also has minimum level requirements.
So, I will keep on messing about with the game for a bit, but all in all it is silly.
Oh, last note: Locational damage is very much in. Anything that glows orange is where you want to hit (and hitting it anywhere else is pointless unless you are using explosives)
The equipment was a concern to me. With no tech tree or evolution or anything the RTS side seems a bit odd. Instead of a gradual build to big units you can just plonk them down at the start if you bought them... if not then tough; you'll be popping out cannon-fodder for the rest of the game :/
Same goes for marines though the default weapon and armour reward you get from the tutorial do seem to handle the baseline monsters easily enough. It's hard to tell what's good and what's rubbish though (the sniper rifle felt dissapointing but I didn't know about the locational damage at the time).
Free to play games really live or die around how intelligently they've implemented their cash shop. For example in one Korean beatemup I used to play (the name escapes me :s ) you could buy skills and weapons with in-game cash for reasonably low prices but they'd only last a while. That way you could always play to full potential with no real money expenditure but the ones you bought with real money were permanent which is tempting but not game breaking (because it means you don't have to grind up a chunk of in-game money to regain all the stuff you usually use if you take a long break or bought the ones that don't last long). Things like Audition Online and a few others I've been tempted to spend pennies on don't have any money stuff that actually affects in-game mechanics at all and are purely aesthetic (like the cooler haircuts or trendier outfits). Even the epic grind that was maple story didn't need you to cash it up to play (though the xp tokens that speed up levelling would make your life considerably more bearable).
I should probably give it another bash now that people are starting to play it. It might make a fun distraction 'til the next big thing if nothing else :p
I got huge Starship Troopers- vibes from playing as a human on the map Oasis (6 human vs 2 bug). I got over 300 kills, hugely aided by the Gatling Gun I bought. The Assault Shotgun I got from a giftbox is pretty awesome against the bigger enemies. I doubt it was any fun for the aliens, though. The first time on that map they didn't even get through the first line of defence. The second time they did better, but we still won pretty easily. I took some <a href="http://koti.mbnet.fi/retales/Battleswarm/" target="_blank">piktars</a>. I bet you can see the SST resemblence.
I've yet to propely try the RTS half of the game, but seeing how the humans always win ridiculously easily, I don't think it'll be too uplifting.
And yes, gear is what turns you from a weak meatbag to a powerful God-punching supersoldier
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited August 2009
So, I actually had a fun round.
It was Arena, which is 4 humans and a bug vs 4 humans and a bug.
It was nicely balanced, and interesting to work with someone controlling swarms of mobs.
The downside is that one side dominated due to better toys (me), however I wouldn't have done nearly as well if the bug player hadn't been backing up all of the humans on his team. When ever one was in trouble he would zerg them with weak mobs to give them meat shields to hide behind. It was actually really interesting.
<!--quoteo(post=1721404:date=Aug 8 2009, 12:06 AM:name=Lumberjack_Wannabe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lumberjack_Wannabe @ Aug 8 2009, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Reminds me of a sci-fi version of Iron Grip: The Oppression (I'm assuming Warlords is similar to the mod version).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Warlords is kinda similar. Some bits are better and some bits are worse. IIRC Warlords is pure Human vs. AI.
I don't think this is a direct competitor because for me the biggest thing NS2 has going for it is that it's Human vs. Human. If NS had been Human vs. AI I would have stopped playing a long time ago. Giving Human players the tools to make 'a series of interesting choices' makes for a different game every time. The other good thing is being able to play two mutually exclusive play styles (3 if you count the commander).
Battleswarm has taken the easy route to FPS/RTS by simplifying the balance (and the perspective - is it really 3rd-person only?). NS2 is taking the harder route but it's one that NS proves is much more rewarding when it's done right.
[Edit] I notice from the comments you can have human versus human. Can a human shoot at an enemy human? Or does it not work like that?
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1721384:date=Aug 7 2009, 10:40 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Aug 7 2009, 10:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721384"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sadly, NS2's biggest competitor is probably World of Warcraft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just like it was for NS. Oh, and every other game in the last five years. :(
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited August 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1722337:date=Aug 12 2009, 06:49 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Aug 12 2009, 06:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722337"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Warlords is kinda similar. Some bits are better and some bits are worse. IIRC Warlords is pure Human vs. AI.
I don't think this is a direct competitor because for me the biggest thing NS2 has going for it is that it's Human vs. Human. If NS had been Human vs. AI I would have stopped playing a long time ago. Giving Human players the tools to make 'a series of interesting choices' makes for a different game every time. The other good thing is being able to play two mutually exclusive play styles (3 if you count the commander).
Battleswarm has taken the easy route to FPS/RTS by simplifying the balance (and the perspective - is it really 3rd-person only?). NS2 is taking the harder route but it's one that NS proves is much more rewarding when it's done right.
[Edit] I notice from the comments you can have human versus human. Can a human shoot at an enemy human? Or does it not work like that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maps are 'balanced' for specific team sizes, most of them are about 6 humans vs 2 bugs (each bug player has their own population limit, but they all use the same hives). There are some that are 4 humans vs AI bugs, one that is 2 bugs in tower defense, and 2 that have humans and bugs on both teams (one is 4 humans 1 bug, the other is 8 humans 2 bugs per side). For those 2 maps you fight everything on the opposite team (be it human or bug).
Note on Warlords: it is humans vs AI. The humans play both as FPS and as RTS, switching back and forth (iirc).
Comments
I don't know how much steve paid for those hulks but they were infinitely better than any of the weapons we managed to buy :p
I don't know how much steve paid for those hulks but they were infinitely better than any of the weapons we managed to buy :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, sorta.
I could take them down given time, but that makes them horribly good for timed defense maps (like what that map is). They couldn't catch up to me and the toxin gun seemed to be effective against them. I am also not sure but I think that the game does have locational damage, specifically the rear of those hulks....
Yah, no clue :D
I paid like 200 e-credits for them? In the game they're free, you just build them. They probably took up more pop than other units, though.
That one map that we kept playing had really really low pop limit, which was strange.
Also, I couldn't build any buildings so the whole "RTS" aspect kind of sucked. The design of the game was disappointing and at no point did I feel like I was playing an RTS.
Most of the rather good looking guns say they're cumbersome on them so I avoided them incase they slowed my character down (I'm all about the speed! :D )
Maybe next time I'll try one though... the text might be lying after all :p
that was why I was carrying around the Gatling gun and and something else (be it the toxic one or the grenade launcher).
So, I was bored yesterday and poked around at a bunch of different things, but mainly at the 4 man assault thing we tried before. I was able to get to the same place we got to together, in the same amount of time. The difference was that I was carrying actually useful guns and decent armour. I could drop the artillery pieces almost instantly, and anything that wasn't the artillery pieces couldn't really do enough damage to me (the 2nd zone was hard due to not being able to actually shoot at the artillery). I was even able to drop one of the GIANT rolly things before it killed me, however it was RIGHT before it would kill me and right after that a full new line would spawn, so I wasn't able to actually do anything.
However I learned a few things:
1) Against light mobs a decent set of armour is kinda amazing.
2) I am nearly positive there is locational damage now. The targets we are supposed to kill would open and close, and you get a distinctly different hit effect when you fire at them when they are open, and I am fairly sure that I could drop them much faster by only shooting when they are open. I got the same hit effect (it looks kinda like what happens when you shoot a hive, those yellowish explosions) when I shot the behemoths in the back.
Other things I picked up:
1) there is a mission sequence that rewards you for doing random things that don't require playing with people so I sorta poked through it. These included using quick join (this is the first one), recording a video, and some others. They reward you with gold and XP.
2) if you aren't picky and just want to futz about with different toys then you should buy the boxes of random loots as they are worth well more than what you pay for them.
I dono, I could see the game being a fun little diversion if there were actually a good number of players....
So install this thing and lets get a game going.
But what's this, we hear some radio static! It seems our other squad has heard the explosions from our current battle from afar and send in a recon unit. Which is just enough of a distracting for the alien players, long enough for us to create a hole in their offensive lines. Before the recon bot was destroyed it did send us a coordinate, could this be the other squad's location?
We are almost clear and going for higher ground, but wait another alien player comes along and pursues us up the hill, we find a building with a dodgy looking vehicle next to it. Arriving at the jeeplike thing we try to start it, it seems it still "runs" and manage to escape the ground units, for now... The aliens now change their tactics and order in flying fortresses to transport their swarm. Now the race is on, can we reach our other squad and have them maybe take the battle to the aliens, while we rearm and regroup! We have no idea what their status is, but judging from the recon unit, it is probably somewhat better then our situation! We are battling it out with our flimsy recon jeep versus the huge flying beasts. Let's hope that recon bot was send in to find us, instead of looking for reinforcements!
BAH!
So install this thing and lets get a game going.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
8/8/09: The day Flayra killed NS2 by pimping a similar game.
--Scythe--
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha-ha, fat chance!
I can't really see myself being interested in this game for a long time (like I expect to be interested in NS2), but I still feel like trying it out properly.
All of my predictions were correct, especially in regards to balancing FPS vs RTS.
The Bugs are slow, dumb, and inefficient by them selves. The only possible way of killing a human is swarming him with HUGE numbers of powered up bugs, and even there a decent FPSer will still win. Seriously, playing as bugs just sucks. I haven't seen them win yet since we tried playing the game properly. The flip side is that most of the human only maps are ridiculously hard, and the bug only map is tower defense. It ultimately boiled down to playing in practice mode with the maps that have humans vs humans, and then now one would play against me because my gear was far superior.
Which brings me to the next point: the game is HEAVILY gear dependent, and you can only get some of the best gear via the cash shop or random drops (you have a better bet buying boxes from the cash shop). This is fine for now since we were all given 1000 cash shop points, but for when the cash shop actually goes live it is kinda silly. Yes, there is some gear that rivals the cash shop stuff, but the price in gold is ridiculous, and it also has minimum level requirements.
So, I will keep on messing about with the game for a bit, but all in all it is silly.
Oh, last note:
Locational damage is very much in. Anything that glows orange is where you want to hit (and hitting it anywhere else is pointless unless you are using explosives)
Same goes for marines though the default weapon and armour reward you get from the tutorial do seem to handle the baseline monsters easily enough. It's hard to tell what's good and what's rubbish though (the sniper rifle felt dissapointing but I didn't know about the locational damage at the time).
Free to play games really live or die around how intelligently they've implemented their cash shop. For example in one Korean beatemup I used to play (the name escapes me :s ) you could buy skills and weapons with in-game cash for reasonably low prices but they'd only last a while. That way you could always play to full potential with no real money expenditure but the ones you bought with real money were permanent which is tempting but not game breaking (because it means you don't have to grind up a chunk of in-game money to regain all the stuff you usually use if you take a long break or bought the ones that don't last long).
Things like Audition Online and a few others I've been tempted to spend pennies on don't have any money stuff that actually affects in-game mechanics at all and are purely aesthetic (like the cooler haircuts or trendier outfits).
Even the epic grind that was maple story didn't need you to cash it up to play (though the xp tokens that speed up levelling would make your life considerably more bearable).
I should probably give it another bash now that people are starting to play it. It might make a fun distraction 'til the next big thing if nothing else :p
I've yet to propely try the RTS half of the game, but seeing how the humans always win ridiculously easily, I don't think it'll be too uplifting.
And yes, gear is what turns you from a weak meatbag to a powerful God-punching supersoldier
It was Arena, which is 4 humans and a bug vs 4 humans and a bug.
It was nicely balanced, and interesting to work with someone controlling swarms of mobs.
The downside is that one side dominated due to better toys (me), however I wouldn't have done nearly as well if the bug player hadn't been backing up all of the humans on his team. When ever one was in trouble he would zerg them with weak mobs to give them meat shields to hide behind. It was actually really interesting.
I don't think this is a direct competitor because for me the biggest thing NS2 has going for it is that it's Human vs. Human. If NS had been Human vs. AI I would have stopped playing a long time ago. Giving Human players the tools to make 'a series of interesting choices' makes for a different game every time. The other good thing is being able to play two mutually exclusive play styles (3 if you count the commander).
Battleswarm has taken the easy route to FPS/RTS by simplifying the balance (and the perspective - is it really 3rd-person only?). NS2 is taking the harder route but it's one that NS proves is much more rewarding when it's done right.
[Edit] I notice from the comments you can have human versus human. Can a human shoot at an enemy human? Or does it not work like that?
Just like it was for NS. Oh, and every other game in the last five years. :(
I don't think this is a direct competitor because for me the biggest thing NS2 has going for it is that it's Human vs. Human. If NS had been Human vs. AI I would have stopped playing a long time ago. Giving Human players the tools to make 'a series of interesting choices' makes for a different game every time. The other good thing is being able to play two mutually exclusive play styles (3 if you count the commander).
Battleswarm has taken the easy route to FPS/RTS by simplifying the balance (and the perspective - is it really 3rd-person only?). NS2 is taking the harder route but it's one that NS proves is much more rewarding when it's done right.
[Edit] I notice from the comments you can have human versus human. Can a human shoot at an enemy human? Or does it not work like that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maps are 'balanced' for specific team sizes, most of them are about 6 humans vs 2 bugs (each bug player has their own population limit, but they all use the same hives). There are some that are 4 humans vs AI bugs, one that is 2 bugs in tower defense, and 2 that have humans and bugs on both teams (one is 4 humans 1 bug, the other is 8 humans 2 bugs per side). For those 2 maps you fight everything on the opposite team (be it human or bug).
Note on Warlords:
it is humans vs AI. The humans play both as FPS and as RTS, switching back and forth (iirc).