How's life in the US?
Cereal_KillR
Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Considering joining in on the fun...</div>So I'm planning eventually to consider getting an internship (trying to get in fact) in the US, for pimp-my-CV action. More specifically, in the electronics and telecommunications engineering field. That means certainly in California, Silicon Valley or something like that.
So before I get into more details about my eventual opportunities, I'd like to know how life in the US is. More specifically, what I should expect to be paying per month (average rent, and life in general) for life in a high-technology sector (a place where I can actually hope to get that internship).
Apart from that, as a French citizen, I'm guessing there's not too much trouble to actually get an internship if I look hard enough (guessing the animosity died down yes?). I know that these are hard times, but if we suppose that I can actually speak very fluently English, and that I am actually quite good in my field, what could eventually set back my application?
I'm not exactly aiming for a green card, but that would obviously be a plus, how hard are they to get? And without a green card, how exactly do I get an internship and eventually a job?
I guess those are the first questions that come to mind for me, but if you people can think of anything else that could be of interest to me, I'd be eternally grateful.
So before I get into more details about my eventual opportunities, I'd like to know how life in the US is. More specifically, what I should expect to be paying per month (average rent, and life in general) for life in a high-technology sector (a place where I can actually hope to get that internship).
Apart from that, as a French citizen, I'm guessing there's not too much trouble to actually get an internship if I look hard enough (guessing the animosity died down yes?). I know that these are hard times, but if we suppose that I can actually speak very fluently English, and that I am actually quite good in my field, what could eventually set back my application?
I'm not exactly aiming for a green card, but that would obviously be a plus, how hard are they to get? And without a green card, how exactly do I get an internship and eventually a job?
I guess those are the first questions that come to mind for me, but if you people can think of anything else that could be of interest to me, I'd be eternally grateful.
Comments
I don't know what our status is with France in terms of visas and such, and how you would go about getting a visa for an internship (I am assuming it would be an H1-B), however that would be my first suggestion of things to look into (talk to your college's study abroad/job placement offices). Green cards take a long time to get and are really annoying (they are for permanent residents iirc). I am only quasi familiar with all of this because all of the student workers in my office (I work for a college), have been Indian nationals, and thus had to deal with all of the visa stuff. One of them didn't get his H1-B visa (it was a lottery when he applied), and had to leave the country. He is back now on a student visa (getting his maters), and going for his Greencard as his wife just finished up her citizenship stuff. Good luck.
As far as living expenses:
Check out <a href="http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites" target="_blank">craigslist</a> for the area you want to go to and check apartment prices. I can tell you that NYC you are looking around $1000 a month minimum for a decent place, with some amount of utilities on top (figure around $100-$200 depending). Food expenses really depend a lot. Travel is another big expense. Depending on where you end up you will likely NEED a car, and that is a rather large expense (I am no help, I live off of public transportation).
I doubt you'll ever actually see any animosity because you're french. It's fun to hate nationalities over the internet, but most Americans don't really care where someone is from.
Right, I completely forgot to mention that.
We seriously are not as stupid as we make our selves out to be.
I was hoping to be able to go to the US in about half a year (February-ish) which I'm guessing is more than enough time to get the administrative side of things going.
So I'm guessing I can forget about a Green Card, anyway I wasn't expecting one. I guess I'll contact my Uni for more info as soon as the academic year starts for more info on that H1-B or EAD.
Also, I'm not accusing anyone of hating French people more than necessary (not more than the occasional snide remark here or there, inherent to the fact that idiots exist everywhere, then again I'm used to those here as well, as I am of Chinese descent ;) ) but I was more concerned about the fact that I'm sure US companies recruit US citizens before considering foreign candidates? I'm supposing something like (perhaps) US>Canada>Rest of english-speaking countries>Western Europe,etc. Because you have to know that French people really DON'T know how to speak correctly anything else than French, with only a few exceptions. And that's obviously a big reliability issue.
Surprisingly enough, the SF Bay prices weren't as high as expected (though quite high indeed). I'm also hoping to be using public transportation but what's an average commute time by car/public transport? I know that it depends hugely on where you actually live, but I'm having some trouble navigating the SF Bay map.
Cities seem very different from here, for example right now I'm 5 minutes on foot to the research lab I'm studying at, and yet I live two minutes by foot to "downtown" (which is impossible in the US, I take it). I'm hoping to have maybe a half-hour commute (1 hour total per day then), is that reasonable?
edit:smilie wasn't sad.
We seriously are not as stupid as we make our selves out to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's usually politicians or a few (other) bad eggs that give a country a bad name.
I doubt there's any truth to this. Assuming you can speak english in a way that can be understood (ie: no extreme accent) it shouldn't be harder than any other person. Now, granted, you may have troubles if an employer doesn't want to deal with the added paperwork and you'd also be trying to find a job in a somewhat hard economic time. I'd definitely try to get in contact with some companies before you come over. Chances are they won't hire you before you come, but if you at least hear back from some of them then you'll know you have a chance of getting a job once you get here. Really, the only thing you want to know is if people will talk to you and you can find that out months before your trip.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what's an average commute time by car/public transport? I know that it depends hugely on where you actually live, but I'm having some trouble navigating the SF Bay map.
Cities seem very different from here, for example right now I'm 5 minutes on foot to the research lab I'm studying at, and yet I live two minutes by foot to "downtown" (which is impossible in the US, I take it). I'm hoping to have maybe a half-hour commute (1 hour total per day then), is that reasonable?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never been to SF, but I know a couple of people who live there. First, for the SF area, an 1 hour total commute a day seems pretty damn low. You would have live very close to where you work for that to be possible. Traffic can be bad where I am, which from what I've heard, is nothing compared to the cities in CA. Also, in most major US cities if you were two minutes by foot from downtown that would probably mean you live in downtown.
One advantage of having a car is that you can live just about anywhere, including much lower income areas.
As for discrimination:
The only thing you are really likely to face is that people on visas are extra work and extra worry for companies due to the vagaries of visas. For example, H-1B visas are applied for by the company doing the hiring, it must be for a specialty position (all that means is that you need a Bachelors or equivalent), and they are only given out at one time in the year (unless things have changed).
Tech companies take up a good portion of H-1Bs iirc.
It's just something to think about. I don't think I'd live in California unless I really wanted to be immersed in the culture. I figure that's what's more exciting for you, anyway, though?
Watch out coming here. Right now, probably for the next 5 or 6 years, California is going to be a ridiculous cesspool. Expect the tax rate to go insanely high, you to get very few services for it, and a lot of businesses to move out- since a lot are. The tech industry is probably going to stay and be just fine, but house prices are going to get even more expensive here than pre-recession values from just the utter lack of /any/ new ones being built(as the companies that tend to do that sort of thing also tend to help on State Projects for a lot of side money, and since the state can't pay them, they can't really operate anymore). In fact, the recession here is probably going to last double compared to any other state, just because of where we've hit in the same amount of time.
Also note, that you will not get a job to keep yourself going while you're here if you don't get one in the sector you want immediately. With an unemployment rate at 17% Statewide, there are 1k+ person lines to get a job at newly opening grocery stores, and everyone ends up competing for the job at the lowest end. You will not be chosen over those others- believe me.
The weather here is also pretty insane. Just get used to 105+ these days. Hasn't gone below it in 2 weeks, save for a single day.
As to what you can plan on paying:
Single Bedroom/studio apartments go for around $850-1.1k in most of silicon valley.
Two bedroom apartments go for $1k-1.6k. This is probably the smartest arrangement, with a roomie, as you can get away with a $500 a month rent.
Power and Water are both by the meter(Water meters are newly required), expect everything to be on the very high end of standard of living.
The hospitals here have lines that will not go away. "Emergency Room" is a relative term. Every day of the year, you can expect them to be absolutely full. If you're in the middle of a heart attack or something on that scale, they'll get you in, but anything less- and I mean, /anything/, and you're going to sit there suffering for a minimum of 3 hours, and that's on the extremely slow days. Expect an average of 7 hours.
Good things about California, however:
Very easy to live a healthy life here, as long as you aren't in the core of LA. Nearly every block there seems to be organic growers in the major cities, crime isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be during the day(certainly not the case at night however; Some areas have significant drug dealer problems. Note, just because the area is low-income doesn't mean it'll be bad, however. Often communities form and get together here to keep places safe for kids and etc, so you can do alright just keeping your head down), and the sun really does help with you not wanting to eat.
Silicon Valley is known for having lots of techies and developers, and you'll get a definite sense of community out of it. Some people think this is good enough to outweigh every single negative- it just might be.
Silicon Valley's Freecycle and Craigslist communities are insanely active. You probably won't have to pay to get stuff for your apartment much at all, as long as you're okay with getting stuff second hand.
Overall, California is great if you love the sun and (uncomfortable) heat. Right now is about the worst time to come- normally, it's a pretty fantastic place if you're okay with that heat part. Just right now, the overall recession combined with a state that is very literally broke has put us into a unique situation in the country that is wholeheartedly worse than anywhere else here. Even Detroit is doing better than the state of California right now.
I wasn't really expecting to see so much discouraging comments about California. Health-wise, I'm good, I've never been hospitalized, nothing worse than a bad cough, so bar an emergency, I don't think I'll need to use the ER.
So Quaunaut, I'm appointing you the California expert. You're making me scared with your excessive unemployment rate. I'm doing high-level studies, I'm finishing up my Master's, which means I'm not looking for just any job. Now I know that it's very far from saying "I'm good enough to get a job", especially if it's those high-level sectors that are taking a hit (despite all the high-level study, I have low-level experience...) so when you're saying "there are 1k+ person lines to get a job at newly opening grocery stores, and everyone ends up competing for the job at the lowest end.", do you mean you have Bachelors and higher hoping to get a job as cashier?
So what exactly makes California so miserable currently? I mean, I'm planning to stay for an internship, not to stay indefinitely, so long-term issues such as estate purchasing prices don't concern me. I'm just aiming blind at a country that's already 15 times the size of my current country.
I can't imagine you want the long version, but the short version is that the state government is set up as much more of a direct democracy when it comes to stuff ilke new taxes, and California voters aren't really big on new taxes. You take a bit of that for a few decades and you wake up today with massive budget deficets and pretty much no way to fund a lot of the stuff that California wants to fund. This means huge cuts or huge tax increases or both. The cuts make life miserable (don't get me started on the schools) and the increases drive away businesses.
On the up side, whereas a studio apartment in a decent part of SoCal will run 1.2K-2K/mo, out here in Kansas $500/mo handles a 2-bed 2-bath, and bills are commensurately cheaper. The only things you miss are the number of f**ktard yuppies in SUVs, the ocean, seagulls, and having mountains as a landmark. And that comparatively, it seems like they may not even HAVE a driving test, with how many people seem to drive with their posteriors around here.
As far as an educational visa, be sure where you're going, and that you have the money to pull it off. Community colleges can do foreign student acceptance, but the classes are quite a bit more expensive than for nationals... I had to pay $12/unit per course last time I went back, but the foreign student rate was closer to $270/unit.
Short version, if you want to come to the US, come as a tourist for a few weeks, or a month. Anything more will cost a LOT of money at best, and waste a lot of your time (and still not allow you in) at worst. If it's on a whim, you'll get a bit of reality. If it's more dedicated, you'll at least have a taste of the area and the kind of headache you'll be loading onto your plate when it comes time to try and file for a longer-term stay.
PS- Americans aren't as bad as we make ourselves out to be. At worst you might have to put up with a few French jokes, or the occasional drunk putting on a terrible Clouseau impression.
I'm not doing studies, I'm just hoping to get an internship, so there's no spending to be done in the American educational system. But I'm actually considering quite seriously working in the US, at least for an internship, and hopefully for more (I'm not getting into detail with French economy, but let's say I've been planning to use my English skills ever since, well, high school). I'm not looking for tourism per se, so anything that's not completely remote could suit fine.
With that said, Kansas? If I'm not being too indiscreet, what sort of job can be obtained in such a place? I'm having difficulty to realize how spread around the country tech companies can be (scaling differences...). I'm still having in my head: tech = Go Silicon Valley or Austin.
While Silicon Valley is known for a high number of these companies, there are development firms popping up all over thanks to the spread of broadband. I'm fairly certain there's a high number of device manufacturers in the Phoenix, AZ area and other major Southwest cities. Also, Google recently opened a new site in Ann Arbor, MI.
If you're willing to expand your options a little, you could also look into other industries that are heavily reliant on technology. For example, I work for a major office furniture manufacturer that has maybe a dozen facilities in the US, UK, China, and India. It's essential that we can share information and data quickly with high security. Not to mention the vaults of CAD data that need to live forever. These issues require teams of network support people.
As far as daily life goes, know that culture shock is a very real thing. While the typical stereotypes about Americans make us out to be trend following buffoons, there's a fairly wide range of cultural life throughout the US that's driven by geography, ethnic diversity, religious majorities/minorities, etc. I like the suggestion of visiting here as a tourist for a stretch before making the jump. Choosing a preferred climate up front is a good idea also.
Tell you one thing; I don't miss the fiberglass burns from running new cable at my old job. And 'traffic' is when the freeway slows to 55mph or so... most of these people would bust an artery just trying to get across the San Fernando Valley, much less get in to work every day.
I'm sure there's a tax benefit in some bill from some state that has to do with hiring French immigrants. :)
Anyways, I agree that SoCal is NOT the place to go for tech. It's pretty saturated unless you want to work for a defense group like Raytheon. I've lived mostly in SoCal, but I have plenty of contacts in the north as well. Silicon Valley has some of the worst rent I've seen in my life. However, if you're willing to commute, Sacramento, San Francisco, and the like are much more reasonable. That being said, Silicon Valley is still the US hotspot for tech companies, both web, chip, and telecommunications.
I concur that California is spiraling out of control government-wise (my buddies call us the bankrupt state now) but I think it's no real cause to panic too badly. Sure I can gripe about a lot, but you won't be here long enough to care.
If you're looking for good tech stuff, Austin is pretty sweet. I'm doing my summer internship here in Austin, and it's been really cool. Think the perfect mix between urbanized, so there's stuff to do, but still rural, as in in 5 minutes you're on a highway surrounded by trees. I blame/credit the environmentalists here to keeping the place clean and moderating growth so you don't end up with an urban mess like in LA. Also, there's lots of good companies, the people are friendly, rent is about $500-$600 / month (I'm paying $550 w/ utilities included for a one bedroom + 1/2 bathroom; have to share shower accommodation down the hall; downtown), and in downtown in the University so there's plenty of things catering to young adults. However, the summer will be about 5-10 degrees hotter than California. We've apparently had quite the record heatwave this year, and have had only a couple of day in the past month were we didn't go over 100F.
Oregon is also pretty hot for big companies. That's where several R&D groups are. But, you'll have to enjoy always cloudy weather (very similar to England I hear, except more trees). Can't say much more than that, I've only been there for meetings and presentations.
If you want, I can get you in touch with the French Exchange students I worked with this past year at my university. They could probably shed some light onto the environment around here. Granted, it was @ a fairly private elite university, so you don't see all the ugly, but they can give you a feel for the social life in California. I've found that Austin is pretty close to LA, maybe a tad more conservative in its views, but much more liberal than the rest of hardnosed Texas.
It turns out that the states are huge. If the goal is simply a tech based internship, you have a huge variety of places to go. I mean even the town I live in, which is around 35k in the city and 2000k in the surrounding county has a few tech companies around.
I would get together a list of things you care about, commute length, color of state flag, job involves explosions, those sorts of things and then go on to monster or whatever the site they list internships is and see if you can find jobs in places that have the right color of flag, the correct balance of explosions to commute length and start dropping in applications for them.
Worst case you end up in a tiny little town in Nebraska where the biggest topographic feature in a hundred miles is the silo Mr Jones put in a few months back. But you should have some idea what you are getting into, especially the general reputation of the town/city before you start applying.
Or, check beforehand to get an idea of the cost of living in that area.
First thing I'd recommend:
<b>Get a job before you move.</b>
Companies have armies of lawyers to take care of the H1-B visa process for you, and they make it as painless as it can be. If it's a large company they will fly you to wherever they need to interview you after you pass a phone screen or two. Hiring is slower because of the economy, but interviewing overseas is probably your best bet.
The Bay Area is a pretty great place all things considered. You may find the weather oppressively nice if you come from somewhere with a more varied climate, it's pretty much sunny and pleasant all the time, although the wind is always a little chilly, and its always cool at night. Public transportation is adequate but not great if you are outside of SF or San Jose. You can function without a car, though you'll probably want to pick up a bike. How close you live to your job will mostly be a lifestyle decision. Most of the tech jobs are in the continuous suburb that fills the peninsula between SF and San Jose, and often people commute from SF to enjoy the culture there in the evenings and weekends. Personally, I prefer to live close to work and drive up to the city for fun, but often people invert that. As a single guy not too picky about apartments, you can pretty much live as close to your office as you like. You may be able to walk every day.
Probably the best thing that the US in general has over other countries and California in particular is abundant wilderness. If you are in to hiking, rock-climbing, backpacking, canoeing, rent a car or find a friend, and you can be in some of the most dramatic scenery in the world in <4 hours. Yosemite, Redwoods National Park, Sequoia National Park, as well as an uncountable number of state parks are there for the choosing. California in particular also has incredible produce. Strawberries, raspberries, cherries, nectarines, peaches, are all available fresh juicy and delicious year-round.
The Bay Area is as accepting of foreigners as any place could be I think, though I doubt you'd run into trouble anywhere. Only 1/5 of the people on my team are from the US, and only 1/10 are from California.
If you're looking at places other than the Bay Area, I'd prioritize based on the company you want to work for. Seattle Washington, Portland Oregon, and Austin Texas are all great cities in which you are likely to technology jobs. Most big tech companies cluster together to scalp each other's employees, so there are a few hotspots in the US.
Culturally, the only places as interesting as your average European city are probably New Orleans and New York, and you aren't likely to find a ton of available tech jobs in either place (maybe New York) but every city has its charm. Chicago is my personal favorite, but mostly because it feels like home.
Companies have armies of lawyers to take care of the H1-B visa process for you, and they make it as painless as it can be. If it's a large company they will fly you to wherever they need to interview you after you pass a phone screen or two. Hiring is slower because of the economy, but interviewing overseas is probably your best bet.
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Probably the best thing that the US in general has over other countries and California in particular is abundant wilderness. If you are in to hiking, rock-climbing, backpacking, canoeing, rent a car or find a friend, and you can be in some of the most dramatic scenery in the world in <4 hours. Yosemite, Redwoods National Park, Sequoia National Park, as well as an uncountable number of state parks are there for the choosing. California in particular also has incredible produce. Strawberries, raspberries, cherries, nectarines, peaches, are all available fresh juicy and delicious year-round.
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The Bay Area is as accepting of foreigners as any place could be I think, though I doubt you'd run into trouble anywhere. Only 1/5 of the people on my team are from the US, and only 1/10 are from California.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First point: so true.
2nd point: thus why you don't want to intern in LA. =] Also, my French colleague claims the Napa Valley wines are acceptable.
3rd point: zomg outsourcing! But seriously, in the US, if you've got the skills, people will respect and work with you.
For the most part. There will always be idiots. but that really is just the nature of humanity.
This is still a project for me, I'm planning ahead six months or so, but I'm gathering all the info I can get. Obviously, I'll get my internship before going to the US, that's why I'm already looking, to be sure to get what I want.
My career's very young (in fact it's not even started really, save some internships) so I can't afford to live in the heart of SF Bay just for an internship. I'm thinking Austin perhaps, or Phoenix. I'd love to live near the Rockies though I don't know what tech companies I could find there.
I'll keep you posted when I finally found a place to go!