Regarding motion tracking, perhaps the best route to go would be something like the Aliens vs. Predator games - the Marines in those are equipped with motion trackers, but only a small HUD covering the 180 degree arc in front of them, which doesn't indicate vertical position at all. It's effectiveness could also be tied to how large the moving object is, how fast it's moving, and how far away it is, so that small creature like a skulk, creeping slowly, might not register on the motion sensor until it's basically right on top of them. This way the motion tracker is still useful - it alerts the marines if something is moving in on them fast, especially something big and mean, or if threats are approaching them from around corners and stuff - but it can't reliably detect something that's attempting to be stealthy. Those that think it shows them everything are easy prey for ambush.
Regarding cloaking generally, the Hidden: Source mod has an excellent example of cloaking ambushing, as the titular Hidden is almost invisible at all times - using the previously mentioned "predator-like" cloaking effect of slightly distorting the image behind him. He's usually pretty easy to spot, though, or at least I find him pretty easy to spot; it does seem to depend a lot on the player (and probably their graphics settings as well), as I've seen people who are somehow unable to notice him when he's standing right in front of them. I generally find that he's very easy to spot when moving against detailed background as you can see the distortion ripple, and if he tries to stay still in a well lit location he's not hard to notice. Amusingly enough, he actually becomes a lot harder to spot against a sufficiently light and non-detailed background, so if cloaking in NS2 were to use this effect it could actually make it feasible for skulks to hide by clinging onto lights and hiding their distortion in the glare/bloom. Of course, it's also very effective in darkness where there's basically no image to distort.
I do think making cloaking a limited use thing as opposed to constantly on is a great idea.
<!--quoteo(post=1717340:date=Jul 14 2009, 02:43 PM:name=Carcer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Carcer @ Jul 14 2009, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding motion tracking, perhaps the best route to go would be something like the Aliens vs. Predator games - the Marines in those are equipped with motion trackers, but only a small HUD covering the 180 degree arc in front of them, which doesn't indicate vertical position at all. It's effectiveness could also be tied to how large the moving object is, how fast it's moving, and how far away it is, so that small creature like a skulk, creeping slowly, might not register on the motion sensor until it's basically right on top of them. This way the motion tracker is still useful - it alerts the marines if something is moving in on them fast, especially something big and mean, or if threats are approaching them from around corners and stuff - but it can't reliably detect something that's attempting to be stealthy. Those that think it shows them everything are easy prey for ambush.
Regarding cloaking generally, the Hidden: Source mod has an excellent example of cloaking ambushing, as the titular Hidden is almost invisible at all times - using the previously mentioned "predator-like" cloaking effect of slightly distorting the image behind him. He's usually pretty easy to spot, though, or at least I find him pretty easy to spot; it does seem to depend a lot on the player (and probably their graphics settings as well), as I've seen people who are somehow unable to notice him when he's standing right in front of them. I generally find that he's very easy to spot when moving against detailed background as you can see the distortion ripple, and if he tries to stay still in a well lit location he's not hard to notice. Amusingly enough, he actually becomes a lot harder to spot against a sufficiently light and non-detailed background, so if cloaking in NS2 were to use this effect it could actually make it feasible for skulks to hide by clinging onto lights and hiding their distortion in the glare/bloom. Of course, it's also very effective in darkness where there's basically no image to distort.
I do think making cloaking a limited use thing as opposed to constantly on is a great idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These both sound like awsome ideas. I think the first one about a 180 degree motion tracking that skulks can still creep up on sounds really cool and a lot more realistic that the current MT in NS1. The second idea also sounds cool. I can picture a fade, onos, gorge, and a couple of skulks all moving towards a squad of marines and they just see a wave of rippleing distorted air heading right for them.
<!--quoteo(post=1717424:date=Jul 15 2009, 02:29 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Jul 15 2009, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717424"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Hidden mod is highly dependant on hardware. Old hardware makes it practically impossible to see the guy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yay for flaws in the "ripple" for balancing cloaking. Mess it up and lower end people get punk'd. That's why I'm more in favor of straight up transparency.
+1 vote for more AvP game mechanics. those were super effective and pretty balanced, while offering gameply and atmosphere. (180 motion tracker that updated every few seconds) also wall crawling had some good mechanics to it. namely, the ability to crawl on the gosh darn wall. while it did get a little messed up and leave you running in circles for a crucial moment, for the most part, the added benefit of being able to CRAWL ON THE WALL OR CEILING without slipping off made up for it with ease.
Comments
Regarding cloaking generally, the Hidden: Source mod has an excellent example of cloaking ambushing, as the titular Hidden is almost invisible at all times - using the previously mentioned "predator-like" cloaking effect of slightly distorting the image behind him. He's usually pretty easy to spot, though, or at least I find him pretty easy to spot; it does seem to depend a lot on the player (and probably their graphics settings as well), as I've seen people who are somehow unable to notice him when he's standing right in front of them. I generally find that he's very easy to spot when moving against detailed background as you can see the distortion ripple, and if he tries to stay still in a well lit location he's not hard to notice. Amusingly enough, he actually becomes a lot harder to spot against a sufficiently light and non-detailed background, so if cloaking in NS2 were to use this effect it could actually make it feasible for skulks to hide by clinging onto lights and hiding their distortion in the glare/bloom. Of course, it's also very effective in darkness where there's basically no image to distort.
I do think making cloaking a limited use thing as opposed to constantly on is a great idea.
Regarding cloaking generally, the Hidden: Source mod has an excellent example of cloaking ambushing, as the titular Hidden is almost invisible at all times - using the previously mentioned "predator-like" cloaking effect of slightly distorting the image behind him. He's usually pretty easy to spot, though, or at least I find him pretty easy to spot; it does seem to depend a lot on the player (and probably their graphics settings as well), as I've seen people who are somehow unable to notice him when he's standing right in front of them. I generally find that he's very easy to spot when moving against detailed background as you can see the distortion ripple, and if he tries to stay still in a well lit location he's not hard to notice. Amusingly enough, he actually becomes a lot harder to spot against a sufficiently light and non-detailed background, so if cloaking in NS2 were to use this effect it could actually make it feasible for skulks to hide by clinging onto lights and hiding their distortion in the glare/bloom. Of course, it's also very effective in darkness where there's basically no image to distort.
I do think making cloaking a limited use thing as opposed to constantly on is a great idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These both sound like awsome ideas. I think the first one about a 180 degree motion tracking that skulks can still creep up on sounds really cool and a lot more realistic that the current MT in NS1.
The second idea also sounds cool. I can picture a fade, onos, gorge, and a couple of skulks all moving towards a squad of marines and they just see a wave of rippleing distorted air heading right for them.
Yay for flaws in the "ripple" for balancing cloaking. Mess it up and lower end people get punk'd. That's why I'm more in favor of straight up transparency.
also wall crawling had some good mechanics to it. namely, the ability to crawl on the gosh darn wall. while it did get a little messed up and leave you running in circles for a crucial moment, for the most part, the added benefit of being able to CRAWL ON THE WALL OR CEILING without slipping off made up for it with ease.