Ingame ragdol and sprinting?

Tekoppen

<div class="IPBDescription">Two things I wonder about...</div>Thing number one: I have long wondered if ns2 will have ragdol in the game, what do you think?
It would be awesome to see onos rolling over a couple of marines.

Thing number two: It looks like ns2 will use the "Sprint", or am I wrong?
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2//2008/10/unknown_worlds_videocast_5" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2//2008/10/...lds_videocast_5</a>
(1:41 - 1:43)

Xain

1: I was hoping that they would use ragdolls as well. Seeing skulks fall from ceilings and onto a marine is just a funny thing to imagine.

2: Indeed it does look like he is sprinting, I hope its implemented in that fashion. (like CoD)

Polska

Not sure if we will see sprinting, could just be a testing feature they use to get around quicker. Remember cat packs from NS1, I would imagine something like them will still exist.

Tekoppen

1: I hope there will be explotions and flying parts from structures when destroyed, wicth can be lethal (the parts as well).

2: Still, it would be quite good since you feel so slow otherwise in NS1.

Tekoppen

I wonder if ragdoll with collition is worse then without. If there is a battle going on at some tight area, the ragdolls will become a wall.

I think players will become more frustrated by not beeing able to pass because of lots of ragdolls then not killing anyone when dieing.

My own oppinion is that I would like to have the ragdolls with collition.

Even a better sollution would be if there is an option for the server admin to enable or disable that function.

Frogg2

<!--quoteo(post=1715354:date=Jul 2 2009, 04:44 PM:name=Tekoppen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tekoppen @ Jul 2 2009, 04:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thing number two: It looks like ns2 will use the "Sprint", or am I wrong?
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2//2008/10/unknown_worlds_videocast_5" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2//2008/10/...lds_videocast_5</a>
(1:41 - 1:43)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think you mean "booking it"

Tekoppen

Booking the Sprint, or what do you actually mean?

Xain

<!--quoteo(post=1715370:date=Jul 3 2009, 12:16 AM:name=Tekoppen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tekoppen @ Jul 3 2009, 12:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715370"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder if ragdoll with collition is worse then without. If there is a battle going on at some tight area, the ragdolls will become a wall.

I think players will become more frustrated by not beeing able to pass because of lots of ragdolls then not killing anyone when dieing.

My own oppinion is that I would like to have the ragdolls with collition.

Even a better sollution would be if there is an option for the server admin to enable or disable that function.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think itll be like Gmod or HL2DM the corpses dont have collision and they despawn over time.

Tekoppen

I think the same that there won't be any collision on the ragdolls, but what is your oppinion? Do you want the ragdolls in Natural Selection 2 to have collision?

Mr. Epic

There are a few ways they can work, and in all cases the ragdoll wont push back... its the only thing that responds to physics so when you run into it it won't push back at you ever but it will move when you hit it. An example of this is if you had 2 marines run into each other with a ragdoll skulk in between. The ragdoll will be pushed and in effect squeezed between the two others but it will never prevent the marines from not running into each other.

Daworm

What happens if an Onus dies in a narrow hallway with collision?
Do you have to blow up the body? Wait till it disappears?

With collison comes more work by the map maker to ensure that a big brute dying in an inappropriate place won't kill half the game play by giving an unfair advantage to one team for a short-time.

I can certainly see people going onus to deliberately die on top of a res point / behind a door or similar to prevent passage to marines.

I say, have ragdolls (like said above) that do not affect movement, that disappear after a short time.

Tha

i dunno but gears of war rag doll collision was decent, if you walk over a skulk and say your foot hits it, it may fling forward? kinda do like the wall of dead bodies thing. lol

i have an idea too. if a marine dies(in marine controlled sector), his body will rag doll and be collidable, but electricity will spark and the marine will be sucked out of the area by commander(automatic) and be given treatment for wounds(if dead rites are performed etc). but marine will still respawn as a completley new one. say if an alien dies on its ground (alien controlled sector) it will stay as a rag doll, collidable and then it will fuse into the ground and become infestation. same for a dead marine on its ground, vice versa.

What do you think? a very perfect reason of how collidable corpses can be implemented and have a good back story.

however,if there is a neutral sector bodies will stay there, and say if a dead scientist is on the ground, a marine may press action button, same thing will happen electricity sparks, he gets sucked out and resources(say 3-5?) are rewarded to marines, same thing with aliens except infestation bursts out everywhere and resources are given.

Tom Hoen

<!--quoteo(post=1715448:date=Jul 3 2009, 10:11 AM:name=Tha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tha @ Jul 3 2009, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i dunno but gears of war rag doll collision was decent, if you walk over a skulk and say your foot hits it, it may fling forward? kinda do like the wall of dead bodies thing. lol

i have an idea too. if a marine dies(in marine controlled sector), his body will rag doll and be collidable, but electricity will spark and the marine will be sucked out of the area by commander(automatic) and be given treatment for wounds(if dead rites are performed etc). but marine will still respawn as a completley new one. say if an alien dies on its ground (alien controlled sector) it will stay as a rag doll, collidable and then it will fuse into the ground and become infestation. same for a dead marine on its ground, vice versa.

What do you think? a very perfect reason of how collidable corpses can be implemented and have a good back story.

however,if there is a neutral sector bodies will stay there, and say if a dead scientist is on the ground, a marine may press action button, same thing will happen electricity sparks, he gets sucked out and resources(say 3-5?) are rewarded to marines, same thing with aliens except infestation bursts out everywhere and resources are given.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I really like your idea. This would prevent Onos blocking whole doorways, just simply electrify its body and the way is clear. It could look like small fireworks "Yay, we killed onos" *ZAP*.

And for the ragdolls I'd love to see Onos charging in to group of mairnes. 'Charge-by Kharaa style'

Tekoppen

I like the idé of having the ragdoll get pushed away when players are standing on it, but no stopping the player. I would like if the ragdoll would take damage if the ragdoll is moving fast.

Peperoros

Ragdoll yes, but with no collision. Got _really_ annoyed by all the skulks blocking my path when I run around as an onos. And ragdolls + onos would be the best thing ever. A marine stuck on an onos's horns would be a beautiful sight, and a heavy getting stuck in the onos's butt when he finished digesting him, or flinging bodies around when rampaging in a base <3

Sprinting is cool as long as kharaa can catch up. Speed is the advantage for most of kharaa classes, so having your already difficult target running away faster than you would be a ######. Of course you would not be able to shoot while sprinting, if someone already didn't mention that:P

Tekoppen

I still stick with the collision as long as the ragdoll is moving faster then walking speed.

Tha

<!--quoteo(post=1715491:date=Jul 3 2009, 11:40 PM:name=Peperoros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Peperoros @ Jul 3 2009, 11:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ragdoll yes, but with no collision. Got _really_ annoyed by all the skulks blocking my path when I run around as an onos. And ragdolls + onos would be the best thing ever. A marine stuck on an onos's horns would be a beautiful sight, and a heavy getting stuck in the onos's butt when he finished digesting him, or flinging bodies around when rampaging in a base <3

Sprinting is cool as long as kharaa can catch up. Speed is the advantage for most of kharaa classes, so having your already difficult target running away faster than you would be a ######. Of course you would not be able to shoot while sprinting, if someone already didn't mention that:P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


what if kharra can sprint too? eh.

Peperoros

<!--quoteo(post=1715510:date=Jul 3 2009, 05:24 PM:name=Tha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tha @ Jul 3 2009, 05:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what if kharra can sprint too? eh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sprint added to already existing speedboost and dash? xD You will need some serious mouse sensitivity and good ping+fps.

Tekoppen

Do you two think there will be Sprint in NS2?

Avata

I'd love to see corpses thrown around by the Onos Stomp XD

Xain

<!--quoteo(post=1715501:date=Jul 3 2009, 02:40 PM:name=Tekoppen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tekoppen @ Jul 3 2009, 02:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still stick with the collision as long as the ragdoll is moving faster then walking speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

lol I kinda like that idea, but that would make the onos look like a plush toy once its dead.

Mr. Epic

collision to move the ragdoll but not to prevent movement. When the alien dies, the ragdoll should dissolve into gibs or bones/etc... and fade away. Marines should do something different, but not some sort of electric zap. No need to have that kind of thing- it would feel too simulation like.

HairyPomegranate

<!--quoteo(post=1715354:date=Jul 2 2009, 10:44 PM:name=Tekoppen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tekoppen @ Jul 2 2009, 10:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thing number one: I have long wondered if ns2 will have ragdol in the game, what do you think?
It would be awesome to see onos rolling over a couple of marines.

Thing number two: It looks like ns2 will use the "Sprint", or am I wrong?
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2//2008/10/unknown_worlds_videocast_5" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2//2008/10/...lds_videocast_5</a>
(1:41 - 1:43)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking of something along the lines of this for sprinting: sprinting allows your character to move faster than normal, but due to the way he holds his weapon while doing this, he either cannot shoot or has impaired recoil and accuracy.

Tekoppen

Atleast what I see it seems that he can't use he's weapon while sprinting.

RobB

Ragdolls should have a mass and collision, this way even a dead onos has a purpose until it's dissolved into nanosludge.

Tha

To the guy who said they hated it how skulks blocked them as onos, make it so that onos will simply batter aside a skulk or any other inferior lifeform.
INCLUDING RAGDOLLS! for the others, it could be a gameplay mechanic, going as a double edged sword, a dead onos clogging a hallway, thats why a mechanic such as a electricity spark(hey im open to ideas, yea it is kinda ###### tho lol) can just take the body away in 5 seconds. Even giving res(2-3), a great way to tag enemys like that.

Dead-Inside

Having ragdolls block the map would be retarded for gameplayreasons. However, having the ragdolls collide with players (in that they react to the player, but the palyer doesn't react to the ragdoll), eachother and the environment will work well because it wont affect anything else than vision and it will add a lot of feel.

RobB

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and it will add a lot of feel<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt a flopping onosleg without weight will create much feel...

Dead-Inside

<!--quoteo(post=1715634:date=Jul 4 2009, 07:24 AM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Jul 4 2009, 07:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I doubt a flopping onosleg without weight will create much feel...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't think you're thinking hard enough about this. You can still have weight, it doesn't need to fly around the room just because a marine touches it. The only thing that can't happen is that it blocks the marine (or fades, or what have you) from moving or shooting through it. Think about it like this; Marine walks up to dead onos, marine begins walking to the other side of onos ragdoll, onos leg/head moves somewhat but remains on the ground, marine clips through onos.

And even if you have a flinging onos ragdoll it'll be more fun than no ragdolls. As long as they're not floating around.

Edit: Oh, and ya, collision ragdolls are a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally terrible idea from a gameplay perspective. If this was a large open game then yes, I'm all for it, but in the closed, tight maps like we'll be playing NS2 in with tight, small focused battles ragdolls blocking the halls wont work at all.

RobB

Why not? It's a 75 res doorstopper giving time for the remaining aliens to reform...

project_demon

collision ragdolls have more negatives than positives. They kill CPUs, put more work on GPUs, forced map designers to build their maps accordingly so that 1 dead body doesn't block the path to the rest of the map... the list goes on.

What positive aspects do they bring on to the table? An attempt at adding realism to a game that isn't even realistic nor is it trying to be in the first place (can also go as eye candy)...

If you want to have them, at least remove collision.