Why do people keeping voting for the old maps?

Bulletproof_McBain

I'm happy on the 2 or 3 servers I play on, good familiar people, fairly well-rounded skilled players, usually good teamwork etc. etc.

But one thing that really gets on my nerves however is that people keep voting for the same maps over and over and over. It's always the ancient ones, veil, hera, origin, tanith etc. There's a whole bunch of newer ones that I can't even remember the names of since I get to play them so little. I know there's one that's absolutely enormous with massive bottomless pits, bridge-like walkways and has a res-node down the bottom of a massive sloped shaft that leads to one of these massive death-star styled pit areas. The level design's amazing, the scope of it's fantastic and my general unfamiliarity with it adds even more fun. Haven't been given the opportunity to play it in months.

Whenever the map vote comes up, no matter what it is, I'll vote for the unfamiliar sounding map (as I said, can't remember which is which on the new ones) SOLELY because they're the new ones and with provide some actual variety to play on. Yet pretty much EVERYBODY else votes for the overplayed ancient maps, usually yelling down voice chat "ONE!" or suchlike to encourage others to vote for the aforementioned old map.

Does anyone else have this problem?

I don't get it, why are the 'new' maps so unpopular with players? I've had amazing games on those newer ones and as I said, love the feeling of exploration on somewhere I've not played a billion times. Surely it's more fun to keep variety high with newer architecturally-different levels, rather than just voting up the ones you know like the back of your hand? Isn't the challenge to adapt an enjoyable part of the game for people?

Sub_zer0

I can only go by my opinion here but people play the "old" maps because they know they have been around for a long time and have been balanced very well and know god tactics for them where as the new maps can be a pain to download on a slower connection can be very unbalanced. Most people with go to custom servers to play custom maps maybe if you like the new maps you could try there I'm sure you will get a good taste of them there they can be fun but at the same time so can the old one's.

It's not always fun to be on a map where one team has a massive advantage over the other.

My thoughts any how.

Bulletproof_McBain

Don't get me wrong, I do obviously like the old maps and a great match is a great match regardless of what level it's taking place on. It's simply a case of me valuing variety in videogames, especially when some levels have such regimented tactics that there are immediate vantage points that are often claimed at the beginning of the level to make or break the entire match (Veil seems to be one of the most susceptible to this). I'm not complaining about the fact that this exists, all combat situations will have vantage points vital for control, it's simply annoying that people keep wanting to play these levels to such a degree, whilst having to be played in an almost specified way. I'm not really bothered about custom maps (though I'm sure people have made some great ones), I simply want to experience more of the official maps that the designers worked hard to create for us in order to expand their game.

And obviously, if it's a case of people not wanting to play them because they're not tactically experienced with them, then the ironic fact is that the more they play them, the more familiar they'll obviously be with them.

Afterall, when we all installed NS for the first time, we weren't familiar with any of the maps (whatever version that was for each of us).

ZiGGY

I think you get maps in a few categories:

A.
ns_veil
ns_tanith

B.
ns_origin
ns_metal
ns_eclipse

C.
ns_lost
ns_caged
ns_nancy
ns_nothing
ns_hera
ns_orbital
ns_ayumi
ns_lucid

D.
ns_altair
ns_agora
ns_eon
ns_bast
ns_machina

but eh it's too hot and I can't think straight I might be pulling this one out my ass :P though it is worth noting that standard tactics probably work best on the most popular maps :P

Bulletproof_McBain

What happened to mineshaft? I've just realised I've not played that since... god knows when.

<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZiGGY)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->though it is worth noting that standard tactics probably work best on the most popular maps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's pretty much my entire gripe I guess. I'm annoyed at how people treat tactics like a well worn-in pair of shoes or a really old soft-bristled toothbrush, they vote for levels they know how to play second-natured too much. Personally I like the challenge of unfamiliarity and just wish others did too.

I like matches to be "how do we win?" not "this is how we win!".

pSyk0mAn

While the newer maps (shiva/machina/eon) look great they usually cause performance issues for more ppl.
Moreover the mappers didn't prioritize gameplay over visuals (difficult navigation, stucky elevations/corners/brushwork).

BadMouth

Some of the newer maps seem to lack character. it's hard to explain that one. And some, aren't that balanced. I have an aversion to ayumi because I think the corridors are way too long. But if its a good map, I wont have any problem playing it. It's just that I don't feel that some of the new maps are as good as the "old" one. And I also miss mineshaft.

Bulletproof_McBain

<!--quoteo(post=1715325:date=Jul 2 2009, 06:23 PM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Jul 2 2009, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I also miss mineshaft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

When did we lose it and why? I've left and returned to NS so many times over the years I can't remember changelog history at all.

pSyk0mAn

It was renamed to ns_uturn due to balance issues and then replaced by a new map that soon was renamed to ns_coldturn :D

That_Annoying_Kid

exactly

I love machina (I think it's got the best feel / atmosphere) but it's bad for gameplay

Bacillus

For me a lot of the less played maps have absolutely game breaking features in them. For example the Shiva mid hive water pool and narrow corridors make it really difficult to play. Nancy on the other hand has got two imbalanced siege spots. Altair is fine I guess, although it never felt that smooth or strategically creative map. Machina is fine, it's just too big and complex I guess.

All in all, you play them a while and at least for me they turned out the same as the rest of the maps, except that there are bigger imbalances and flaws than in the most played maps.

The large maps aren't my thing anyway, I enjoy being all over the place and fight constantly for the areas I see important. My commanding style is also quite aggressive and relates heavily to the opponent team, so I like to be able to react quickly instead of having my marines running minutes for the target or securing early PG positions to get some foothold on the map right from the beginning.

Meanwhile maps like Orbital should get way more play time. Although Orbital has got some technical difficulties, it's still a good map that is challenging in every way and puts you in new kinds of situations.

The_Real_Quasar

I'm guilty of always voting for older maps, just because there have been about 20 or so added since I last properly played NS, and I'd have no idea what was going on. Hell, ns_veil is a new map as far as I'm concerned... I remember downloading the server-only release of the 2.0 update just so I could have a look at the new maps.

As far as I'm concerned, there's a certain level of nostalgia and a general feeling of being 'classic' that makes the REALLY old maps still popular to this day.

lazy

I am a very nostalgic and melancholic person.

Bulletproof_McBain

I'm assuming there will be no future developments or fixes to the newer maps then to make them more balanced - and all work's on NS2 now right?

I did have a nice surprise last night on the Guns4Back2School server, when a number of the classic maps in the NS1.04 versions appeared. So many glorious cinematic effects and more moody textures in use, I forgot how much more detailed some of the levels were prior to getting stripped down in the name of "balance". So many people were exclaiming "why the hell did they change this/that?" throughout the games. To a certain extent it was like playing something new again and everyone on the server voted excitedly for them. I'd like to play the 2.0 ones again since I played them far more and knew their layouts better, but it was still great fun.

The blast doors in Caged; the rotating door in Bast; the textures, steam and lighting in Nothing... just little things really added to the game and made it feel like a movie world rather than some online-only FPS far too keen on catering for the frag-happy crowd rather than those who want to indulge in a full-realised sci fi universe that does Aliens-movie styled gameplay a million times better than any shallow official Aliens-franchise game ever has.

<!--quoteo(post=1715656:date=Jul 4 2009, 12:06 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jul 4 2009, 12:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Meanwhile maps like Orbital should get way more play time. Although Orbital has got some technical difficulties, it's still a good map that is challenging in every way and puts you in new kinds of situations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I couldn't remember which map this was, so started up an empty offline server to see which it was.





I discovered I have never once played that map in my entire NS-playing life.

The_Real_Quasar

Aye, the change from 1.04 was one of the main reasons I gradually drifted away from the game.

Hmm, idea, anyone with a server fancy getting together a game of 1.04 at some point, just for nostalgia's sake? I'm almost certain I've got my install file backed up somewhere.


Walls of Lame FTW.

Tonee

I always vote for all the old maps, just because I've just started playing again and I'm old skool ;)

Crispy

<!--quoteo(post=1715305:date=Jul 2 2009, 05:29 PM:name=ZiGGY)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZiGGY @ Jul 2 2009, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715305"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you get maps in a few categories:

A.
ns_veil
ns_tanith
ns_origin

B.
ns_metal
ns_eclipse
ns_lucid
ns_caged
ns_orbital

C.
ns_lost
ns_nothing
ns_hera
ns_eon
ns_shiva
ns_machina

D.
ns_agora
ns_ayumi
ns_bast
ns_nancy<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->My personal list.

Nancy and Ayumi are broken maps and Altair is underrated. I can't see why people don't see this.

ZiGGY

my list is based around vote ratios and not game balance, I couldnt really care less about the balance of a map given the standard of play from most players ;p