What types of environments are possible?
FocusedWolf
Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Underwater? Snowy? Rainy? Zero-Gravity? Vacuum?</div>So i was just fearing that ns2 will just be ns1 with new textures and was wondering what types of new fighting terrains would exist. I know everyone talks about lua but i think some things can only be implemented with the engine.
So was just wondering if the engine is flexible enough to offer to mappers a means to create maps like the following:
1. a low gravity moon with different temperatures depending on where you are on the moon... a vacuum... and perhaps spacesuits <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
2. an underwater map? maybe having airlocks and submarines and air tanks for swimming around. Underwater explosions???
3. Jungles? Forests? maps that don't look like repeated copy-paste offices??
4. Fog? cloudy areas... swampy... bugs flying around?
5. Battles on the outside of a ship? Perhaps maps that offer both indoor, and outside routes to areas? We will really need a pressure suit like these provided by the devs, as an incentive for map makers to include them in their design: For example: ship to ship, flying with suit jets would be cool. Perhaps magnetic boots for walking on ship hulls and also times where you fly.
<a href="http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file/view/compressionsuit.jpg" target="_blank">http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file...ressionsuit.jpg</a>
<a href="http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file/view/pressuresuit1.jpg" target="_blank">http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file...essuresuit1.jpg</a>
Here's some real pressure suits for airplanes it looks:
<a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MC-3_pressure_suit_front.JPG" target="_blank">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MC-..._suit_front.JPG</a>
<a href="http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/pilotsuit1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/pilotsuit1.jpg</a> <- wow
<a href="http://www.air-and-space.com/20051018%20Edwards/DSC_1092%20Clark-Davis%20pressure%20suit%20l.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.air-and-space.com/20051018%20Ed...%20suit%20l.jpg</a>
6. are vehicles possible in custom servers? Can we have jeep rides through giant hydroponic gardens on the ship? Or ride a personal minisub to the siege room <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
So was just wondering if the engine is flexible enough to offer to mappers a means to create maps like the following:
1. a low gravity moon with different temperatures depending on where you are on the moon... a vacuum... and perhaps spacesuits <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
2. an underwater map? maybe having airlocks and submarines and air tanks for swimming around. Underwater explosions???
3. Jungles? Forests? maps that don't look like repeated copy-paste offices??
4. Fog? cloudy areas... swampy... bugs flying around?
5. Battles on the outside of a ship? Perhaps maps that offer both indoor, and outside routes to areas? We will really need a pressure suit like these provided by the devs, as an incentive for map makers to include them in their design: For example: ship to ship, flying with suit jets would be cool. Perhaps magnetic boots for walking on ship hulls and also times where you fly.
<a href="http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file/view/compressionsuit.jpg" target="_blank">http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file...ressionsuit.jpg</a>
<a href="http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file/view/pressuresuit1.jpg" target="_blank">http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file...essuresuit1.jpg</a>
Here's some real pressure suits for airplanes it looks:
<a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MC-3_pressure_suit_front.JPG" target="_blank">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MC-..._suit_front.JPG</a>
<a href="http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/pilotsuit1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/pilotsuit1.jpg</a> <- wow
<a href="http://www.air-and-space.com/20051018%20Edwards/DSC_1092%20Clark-Davis%20pressure%20suit%20l.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.air-and-space.com/20051018%20Ed...%20suit%20l.jpg</a>
6. are vehicles possible in custom servers? Can we have jeep rides through giant hydroponic gardens on the ship? Or ride a personal minisub to the siege room <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Comments
I'd be interested to see what others UWE's engine can pull off.
ugh
So was just wondering if the engine is flexible enough to offer to mappers a means to create maps like the following:
1. a low gravity moon with different temperatures depending on where you are on the moon... a vacuum... and perhaps spacesuits <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
2. an underwater map? maybe having airlocks and submarines and air tanks for swimming around. Underwater explosions???
3. Jungles? Forests? maps that don't look like repeated copy-paste offices??
4. Fog? cloudy areas... swampy... bugs flying around?
5. Battles on the outside of a ship? Perhaps maps that offer both indoor, and outside routes to areas? We will really need a pressure suit like these provided by the devs, as an incentive for map makers to include them in their design: For example: ship to ship, flying with suit jets would be cool. Perhaps magnetic boots for walking on ship hulls and also times where you fly.
<a href="http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file/view/compressionsuit.jpg" target="_blank">http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file...ressionsuit.jpg</a>
<a href="http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file/view/pressuresuit1.jpg" target="_blank">http://colonialmarines.wikispaces.com/file...essuresuit1.jpg</a>
Here's some real pressure suits for airplanes it looks:
<a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MC-3_pressure_suit_front.JPG" target="_blank">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MC-..._suit_front.JPG</a>
<a href="http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/pilotsuit1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/pilotsuit1.jpg</a> <- wow
<a href="http://www.air-and-space.com/20051018%20Edwards/DSC_1092%20Clark-Davis%20pressure%20suit%20l.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.air-and-space.com/20051018%20Ed...%20suit%20l.jpg</a>
6. are vehicles possible in custom servers? Can we have jeep rides through giant hydroponic gardens on the ship? Or ride a personal minisub to the siege room <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TBH those outdoor-map ideas are often too much fanfic and tend to be very offtopic. I think (real) Outdoormaps do not fit into NS. You have to focus on balance and if it fits into the game theme... its not a singleplayer game.
1. low gravity might be interesting but NS = fast action. Just try sv_gravity on Half Life 1 Mod Servers, it gets boring really fast and doesnt really fit into multiplay imo. And marines DO have a high-tech suit already.
2. same gameplay as low gravity basically.
3. Jungle? NS? Wtf?
4. Fog and swap is a good idea for the map atmosphere (i.e Biodome Hive) but only certain areas so the map remains balanced...
5. Flying with suit jets... right.
6. Vehicles suck. But computer controlled machines or guns (i.e the siege cannons) is a good idea.
I secretly dreamed of a CO-map inspired by 2001's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film)#Imagining_the_future" target="_blank">Centrifuge Artificial Gravity System</a>, CC and Hive seperated by a single Window and everyone needs to travel through a Ring to reach the other Side.
1. low gravity might be interesting but NS = fast action. Just try sv_gravity on Half Life 1 Mod Servers, it gets boring really fast and doesnt really fit into multiplay imo. And marines DO have a high-tech suit already.
2. same gameplay as low gravity basically.
3. Jungle? NS? Wtf?
4. Fog and swap is a good idea for the map atmosphere (i.e Biodome Hive) but only certain areas so the map remains balanced...
5. Flying with suit jets... right.
6. Vehicles suck. But computer controlled machines or guns (i.e the siege cannons) is a good idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Their's always a way. For example the jurassic park game for SNES had jungle areas, and indoor areas... sort of advanced for a snes game lol... anway the "jungle" areas we're more like someone took a lawnmower and cut a random road in the jungle. This might be a crude way to do jungle maps but it could work... just have a preplanned map with routes and then add some foliage and "walls" to indicate impassable jungle,.. and have a viney covered trail, with some swampy fog/gas ofcourse (damn lerks xD). Sprinkle some buildings along the way for that jurassic park feel and there you go. It's really not hard to imagine a semi-crude jungle road with a random resource node on the shoulder of the road... and some sheds and guard towers. An electric fence around some compound/marine start... The compound with a couple of buildings... think the facehugger campaign in avp2...
Also i dont think the sort of fast action that occurs in ns1 will be possible in ns2 until everyone gets amazing vid cards... its just the sight of 20 fades and lerk gas and onos rush...which seems not possible in any modern game (but is the norm in ns1)
Full (or half) vacuum would require pressure suits to protect the marines from the low pressure and aliens to possibly have a carapace. Guns wouldn't be affected because their probably caseless (so hopefully they fire underwater like they should)... wow read this <a href="http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/bloodfrontier/index.php?title=Caseless_ammunition" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/bloo...less_ammunition</a> lol when i was playing this one siege map... everyone was talking about how weak the hmg is in ns1... and then someone said the bullets were plastic to not penetrate the hull...so that was frustrating/interesting and matches what that website says.
Hmm so in the vacuum perhaps we can have it where their is 100% (or 90% for semi-vacuum) of sound reduction. So guns would be quiet and their'd be no sound indication of a fade eating your teammates behind you... and you could sneak up on gorges secretly and skulks could attack silently. The flamethrower could possibly have a longer range or be more violent because of the low pressure? You would be able to possibly hear your own foot steps as the sound is transfered through your suit... so you would hear... let's say... if a onos is pounding the ground. but the sound would be very muffled in this way.
It'd be possible to shoot at an alien without them knowing how many marines were shooting... and i do know from experience that in ns1, aliens use the sound of a weapon to figure out how to jerk-reflex their attack to the shooter... so not being able to hear the gun fire would limit their senses. So the alien would be sort of confused just standing their taking damage... maybe a visual indicator on the screen of the direction the gun fire came from. Then the alien turns in shock to see 4 marines in pressure suits firing hundreds of rounds (one marine doing nothing with the 4-ft range flamethrower and maybe the alien thanks the devs for giving fades 3000 armor <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)... but ya it'd be fun.
And while my instincts tell me it would not be used much or used badly, I still think it would make for some really superb maps if done correctly. RobB, your idea with the Centrifuge is inspiring. If there's one idea of these that I'd really like implemented it'd be a map entity introduced which determines gravity direction, strength, and whether or not it is parallel or relative to that entity (which allows you to create curved maps with relative gravity). Imagine making a map which has ventilation up high out of reach for marines but easily accessible by the Kharaa. Take that map and introduce a gravity switch which literally reverses the direction of gravity based on who controls that room. At that point, no longer are the ventilation systems only for the Kharaa but for marines to freely enter hive base. I can't even completely wrap my head around making a spaceship map which you can play with gravity flowing in one direction or another. I think there are a lot of possibilities for this idea and I'd like to see it implemented into the game.
And while my instincts tell me it would not be used much or used badly, I still think it would make for some really superb maps if done correctly. RobB, your idea with the Centrifuge is inspiring. If there's one idea of these that I'd really like implemented it'd be a map entity introduced which determines gravity direction, strength, and whether or not it is parallel or relative to that entity (which allows you to create curved maps with relative gravity). Imagine making a map which has ventilation up high out of reach for marines but easily accessible by the Kharaa. Take that map and introduce a gravity switch which literally reverses the direction of gravity based on who controls that room. At that point, no longer are the ventilation systems only for the Kharaa but for marines to freely enter hive base. I can't even completely wrap my head around making a spaceship map which you can play with gravity flowing in one direction or another. I think there are a lot of possibilities for this idea and I'd like to see it implemented into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be fun... but it's so an alien only feature because a fade would be able to blink from one plane to the next. Nonetheless because it adds a new possibility to creative maps that aren't all about kill/death that it would make for fun possibilities. Such things as the inversion of this idea... a battle on a small planet with half gravity would also be interesting... Imagine if a fade leaped just right and goes into orbit :P
I think now is a good time to bring this up... will ns2 even allow for multi-floored maps??? I mean i really hope they added some navigation features for the commander to zoom around and command effectively in such things as a recreation of the planet in the movie Aliens complete with multistoried office areas and many-subleveled basements.... i really am tired of all maps, "NS" and "CO" being no more then what CO is... just a boring deathmatch... i want to see some scifi stories realized here... i mean look at zombie master... alot of the maps are just the same thing but a select few feature complex objectives and amazing environments... that's what i want in ns2... not a O LETS CAPTURE NODES TO GET JP FTW... but rather... Ok lets weld this door...run a bypass on that door...lets reboot the heavily scripted computer systems which was custom created for this 1 map!!.... omg look at that thing on the security camera.... great we gotta wait for the computer system to defrag as indicated by the screen sized progressbar... OMG THEY CUT THE POWER... that's it i had enough... time to nuke the site from orbit. I hate building resource nodes... i hope they got rid of those in ns2 lol
Every map should be different... totally about new challenges... not repeats of the same tactics that work universally on all maps... Yes their should be maps that replace the alien models with other alien models... and change their abilities... and change the marines abilities... it should be like this. You want classic NS then go play NS1...
I agree. In fact, would be very cool to have some environment characteristics in the game.
The gravity thing is the best choice, in my opinion.
As for the outside environment, I think they wouldn't fit the purpose of the game. Natural Selection is made for indoor combats.
Just imagine a Fade or a marine with jetpack in a Jungle, it would be terrible and could cause big disavantage for both sides.
I was carrying it since I played the Demo of Serious Sam I or II, with that weird Path that goes 90° Straight up and you still walk it.
Such Effects would be gold worth in NS...
what does it mean? you see a big mountain or whatever and everything behind it will not be calculated. For better outdoor (terrain) handling some dynamic polygon calculation should be added in (like in crytek engine), what im not expecting for ns2 engine. nevertheless, with that algorythm / feature you can create some building, design its inside very detailed, and if you are outdoor and look at that building your framerate will (should) not go down.
I guess to some degree ns2 will be capable to handle outdoor environments
Doesn't have to be a forest, we can make it simpler, the spaceship crashed in a desert. Not the completely empty full of sand kind of desert, but the one with some kind of plant life, rocks... you know. Something simple and feasible for mappers. Now a forest would be nice but it would probably require a lot of custom models of trees and bushes/herbs so it's kinda hard to do.
so if you make some mod for ns2 (BF2 mod for NS2? :P ) you maybe want to add outdoor maps to it, but the original concept
of the game is not designed (i guess so) for that. you can see it already in ns1, if the space is big enough, the fade becomes
the superior class, overpowering anything else (hit & run, fade can escape in any direction, it only needs to gain enough distance
and the bullet spread of the weapons is too high to hit accurate)
Exactly. There were outdoor maps for NS1, and while most of them sucked, there were a couple of decent ones. As mentioned the tricky bit is balance.