NS2 Combat
flying_moose
Join Date: 2009-06-03 Member: 67676Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2009-06-03 Member: 67676Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Is there a group planning on working on combat?</div>Just wondering if anyones already gotten a team together for scripting combat into NS2.
Edit: Just wanted to edit the origional post for people just tuning in. Yes, a group is working on NS2 CO. At this point in time its the 1 person group of me, but if your interested in contributing, go ahead and shoot me an email at "NS2Combat AT gmail DOT com." I also created a public steam group "NS2 Combat" and you may contact me on steam as well.
Edit: Just wanted to edit the origional post for people just tuning in. Yes, a group is working on NS2 CO. At this point in time its the 1 person group of me, but if your interested in contributing, go ahead and shoot me an email at "NS2Combat AT gmail DOT com." I also created a public steam group "NS2 Combat" and you may contact me on steam as well.
Comments
LOL - I know a lot of people dislike combat. I personally like both modes pretty evenly. Normal NS when I have plenty of time and want the whole strategic aspect of the game, Combat when its time to just kill crap or when I can only play for a short amount of time. At any rate based on server populations plenty of people do like combat.
awwww fade + focus + HUNGER or onos + focus + hunger, that is so epic.
awwww fade + focus + HUNGER or onos + focus + hunger, that is so epic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The group would be more or less programming all of combat, and without seeing the lua code we don't really know exactly how much UI control we will have. In theory tho all of XMENU/BUILDMENU options are available. And can be implemented without any annoying menu navigating.
The reason I'm trying to figure out if a group is already working on it is because if theres not, I plan to start one.
The reason I'm trying to figure out if a group is already working on it is because if theres not, I plan to start one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PM me if you do start this.. I'm very interested in mods for ns2, though I may not agree with doing combat <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
awwww fade + focus + HUNGER or onos + focus + hunger, that is so epic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you serious? Are you really serious?
Honestly, I think that xmenu was the worst thing that <b>ever</b> happened to Natural Selection.
I really hope there will be enough vanilla servers in Natural Selection 2 - with real players, not with bots.
only ns maps.
Honestly, I think that xmenu was the worst thing that <b>ever</b> happened to Natural Selection.
I really hope there will be enough vanilla servers in Natural Selection 2 - with real players, not with bots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I partially agree with you. xmenu is horribly unbalanced. Hopefully we'll be able to create a balanced system based off of the current Combat. Needless to say, without more details of NS2 we don't even know if the current base combat system will be applicable.
<!--quoteo(post=1710900:date=Jun 7 2009, 01:28 PM:name=MaS4Cr3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaS4Cr3 @ Jun 7 2009, 01:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1710900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I say: NO COMBAT MODE PLEASE ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, there are more than enough people interested in combat.
Also this topic has gone somewhat off, with us arguing for and against combat - once again - is there already a team making combat or not?
If you don't like it, don't play that mode, it's that simple. Only good can come from having a Combat mode, because it draws in a wider playerbase.
More players = more purchases for the game... I'm pretty sure thats what UWE wants.
If you don't like it, don't play that mode, it's that simple. Only good can come from having a Combat mode, because it draws in a wider playerbase.
[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that is not true.
I wanted to play a bit of NS in these past days but it was nigh to impossible.
After filtering out the servers with bots, stupid plugins, custom maps and too many players there were almost only combat servers left.
I find it hard to find a good non-combat server to play on.
I am afraid that might happen again.
I wanted to play a bit of NS in these past days but it was nigh to impossible.
After filtering out the servers with bots, stupid plugins, custom maps and too many players there were almost only combat servers left.
I find it hard to find a good non-combat server to play on.
I am afraid that might happen again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is mainly because NS is not very popular anymore. Years ago I had no problems at all finding a NS-only map server. A lot of hardcore players also probably got burned out of 40min matches. Instead, the instant gratification of CO keeps people on an excitement high and continues to draw interest.
I think my statement holds even more merit based on what you've said: If CO didn't exist, then there would be barley anyone playing NS right now. We are given the open choice to play NS or CO maps, and it's obvious what the remaining players prefer to play most of the time. If there was no CO, you'd being seeing the exact same lack of server you want to join, just there would be no CO alternative.
Besides, CO is a good siphon for players that don't have the patience for NS-type matches and/or don't want to participate in the tight teamwork it takes to win an NS-type match. CO, in a way, sifts out the type of players that NS-type fans don't want to have on their team. Aside from that, it obviously gives a good "heavy action" distraction from the "stressful, tactics based" gameplay of NS-type matches. I sometimes get very tired of hearing "Man, this COM is such a noob!", "Why the f#ck can't you guys follow an order?!", "Omg! PHASE PHASE PHASE!! Don't take more ammo! PHASE YOU IDIOTS!", etc, etc, etc.
Of course it was tiring but it seems like people didn't mind being tired that much because they could still go on.
Your post have led me to a new conclusion or hypothesis. It seems like CO has softened many players, that's why they aren't able to participate in real matches anymore and that hypothesis is even more frightening than a Combat Mode for Natural Selection 2.
But at this point, not having CO is only going to alienate players in an attempt to cater to the elitist NS players, IMO.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106558&st=0&p=1710477&#entry1710477" target="_blank">I'm like a record</a> that just constantly <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106558&st=0&p=1710487&#entry1710487" target="_blank">spins around.</a>
Players will play what they want to play. A significant portion of NS players enjoyed combat, and when combat is modded into NS2, they will play on combat servers. Those who enjoy classic will play on classic servers. With a large playerbase, people will be able to choose what game mode they want to play.
This is the actual problem with the current NS -- players are unable to choose because of the lack of playerbase.
I have always played combat mode, never really a fan of NS mode...
But then again, Nevermind, it will just get instantly ruined by EVERYONE running something like XMENU anyway, just to ruin it again...
I'm not sure what classic servers you play on (24-32 player limit maybe?) but in Australia with 8vs8 or 12vs12 classic games go 15 minutes max. Will be great when NS2 is out, community will not be segregated again and everyone will be forced to learn the true game. CLASSIC!
I'm not sure what classic servers you play on (24-32 player limit maybe?) but in Australia with 8vs8 or 12vs12 classic games go 15 minutes max. Will be great when NS2 is out, community will not be segregated again and everyone will be forced to learn the true game. CLASSIC!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2 Combat will not *officially* happen. In other podcasts they've said how moddable the engine is going to be.. so how exactly will they prevent it from being written?
Let's take a look into perspective, note this is a bit of a rant. Combat has dulled peoples senses of NS1 in my opinion. They trick the people into believing the skulk is meant to go head to head, er toe.. With the marine. Skulks for one, are supposed be stealthy, which is why half the time when I play that I know right away who is a CO_map kitty. While CO is fun, yes ill agree. I like it as well, but it needs to die and stay buried in NS1. CO should be nothing more than a means of warm up. Not something that you dedicate yourself to.
Do I feel CO ruined NS1? By all means, no. It contributed though. As I said above, transitioning from CO to Classic is hard for some people. Specially when they look at skulks wondering what they are doing wrong. In CO you level up past or behind players, you get the chambers and 'keep' them. Which further impresses lazyness into the player and raises their expectations of a certain life-form when they are use-too feeling the boost of systems like xmenu and other combat related pulgins. They begin to feel like 'paper' because they are dying 3x faster out in the field cause they idiotically charged a group of 2-3 marines like they would in CO and died horribly.
Note it isnt just skill, it is how the game is introduced. I can beg and plead for people NOT to add CO into NS2... But we all know some people want to do that so baddly. Me myself will never be caught on a CO server, and if you have any respect for the game, I hope you will just shake your head and go to the next server.
[/Rant]
Have a nice day.
Let's take a look into perspective, note this is a bit of a rant. Combat has dulled peoples senses of NS1 in my opinion. They trick the people into believing the skulk is meant to go head to head, er toe.. With the marine. Skulks for one, are supposed be stealthy, which is why half the time when I play that I know right away who is a CO_map kitty. While CO is fun, yes ill agree. I like it as well, but it needs to die and stay buried in NS1. CO should be nothing more than a means of warm up. Not something that you dedicate yourself to.
Do I feel CO ruined NS1? By all means, no. It contributed though. As I said above, transitioning from CO to Classic is hard for some people. Specially when they look at skulks wondering what they are doing wrong. In CO you level up past or behind players, you get the chambers and 'keep' them. Which further impresses lazyness into the player and raises their expectations of a certain life-form when they are use-too feeling the boost of systems like xmenu and other combat related pulgins. They begin to feel like 'paper' because they are dying 3x faster out in the field cause they idiotically charged a group of 2-3 marines like they would in CO and died horribly.
Note it isnt just skill, it is how the game is introduced. I can beg and plead for people NOT to add CO into NS2... But we all know some people want to do that so baddly. Me myself will never be caught on a CO server, and if you have any respect for the game, I hope you will just shake your head and go to the next server.
[/Rant]
Have a nice day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what we need, another co vs ns argument! Maybe this one will convince everyone that you are right!
As the above rantings about why combat is good/sucks is all this thread has turned into, and I haven't gotten an answer to my initial question: I will go ahead on the assumption that there is no existing team working on NS2 Combat. That being the case, I will be putting a team together. I created "NS2Combat AT gmail DOT com" if your interested in contributing to the creation of combat with either code or ideas, please send me an email there. In the coming month or so I will try to piece a separate site together for more organized development. I will of course also be watching these forums and my pm box, but email is the best way to reach me.
To all the people who liked combat and are looking forward to seeing it in NS2 great! I look forward to hearing ideas from you on how to improve it!
To all the people who turned this into a discussion of why combat sucks, I want to hear from you most of all!
I want to know what you liked and disliked about combat, so that we can make this an improvement, rather then a clone. I don't want to hear "I don't like xmenu" I want to know WHY you don't want like xmenu, WHY you dislike combat, What you think would make combat better, and in general what would make combat more enjoyable.
~Flying_Moose
And of course, CO games that drag on past 15 minutes and has everyone at max level just becomes boring. Because it becomes team deathmatch game with both sides evenly matched and very hard to kill. It doesn't become unique, like NS is.
This is the major problem: I did actually learn some fading and probably even some LMG aiming in co. However, I played it mostly as cele regen metabolize fade and LMG, instead of trying to play equal to the rest.
Nevertheless, co mostly taught me how to overcome the control side of the game. +Movement and 'slow' blink have done a good job on softening up the unnecessarily difficult controls. The game sense on the other hand you're never going to learn in Co.
As the above rantings about why combat is good/sucks is all this thread has turned into, and I haven't gotten an answer to my initial question: I will go ahead on the assumption that there is no existing team working on NS2 Combat. That being the case, I will be putting a team together. I created "NS2Combat AT gmail DOT com" if your interested in contributing to the creation of combat with either code or ideas, please send me an email there. In the coming month or so I will try to piece a separate site together for more organized development. I will of course also be watching these forums and my pm box, but email is the best way to reach me.
To all the people who liked combat and are looking forward to seeing it in NS2 great! I look forward to hearing ideas from you on how to improve it!
To all the people who turned this into a discussion of why combat sucks, I want to hear from you most of all!
I want to know what you liked and disliked about combat, so that we can make this an improvement, rather then a clone. I don't want to hear "I don't like xmenu" I want to know WHY you don't want like xmenu, WHY you dislike combat, What you think would make combat better, and in general what would make combat more enjoyable.
~Flying_Moose<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Listen, maybe you havent heard through my rantings. Maybe skipped through half of them... I love/hate CO and I will give you a simple list.
Why I Love CO:
Its a hell of alot of fun.
Its quick.
You can learn a little but its fragile this is a love/hate thing
Why I Hate CO:
It takes away from Classic. Look at my 'rant' about the skulk issue.
You constantly have your upgrades and you can get way more than you would ever in regular NS. In regular you can only have one upgrade of each chamber for aliens.
This above is a condensed list for you, I could have added more. Though I just want to hit the main points that I see from my own perspective up to you.
About a year later, CS (Counter-Strike) players started getting into NS, and well it took the game down a notch in fun, and up a notch in frustration, due to all the "THE COM SUCKS", "GIVE ME A WEAPON COM!", "I WON'T ATTACK UNTIL YOU GIVE ME A WEAPON!!" etc etc. They faded away, then CO (Combat) came out, which well brought them all back. After quite a while I left to play other games, then went back and found a nice community that did a combination of NS/CO Custom maps.
It kept me playing for a long time, combat was an alternative. I'd burnt myself out on standard NS, and the custom maps like siege maps and combat maps were quite fun at the time. For me it extended how long I played NS for in the long run.
I'd definitely not want to see combat straight away, but a year or a few later, if it came out, I'd give it a go if it was done properly and fun. There'd be nothing worse if combat came out not long after NS2 release and took a lot of the game population...