ns_<nonameyet>
MasterG
gmfbst Join Date: 2003-08-24 Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
gmfbst Join Date: 2003-08-24 Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">Maybe I'll finish this one..</div>Hello everyone.
It's been too long since I visited these forums, but a few days ago I did and in a wierd way it inspired me. So I fired up NS and played a few games, and by that time I was sort of back in. So I downloaded hammer and all other necessary programs and started mapping. It's been over a year since I touched hammer but I've still got the hang of things(just a few more advanced things that need some educational assistance, but that's for later on).
I drew up a layout for a map after reading through the official guidelines on how to build a map with good gameplay. I might have gotten a few things wrong so please, if you have any, come with suggestions on things to change layout-wise. I've tried to add good choke points for the marines. Also tried to have enough "alien only" paths(vents etc.).
As an explanation to the layout(some of it goes without saying though):
Blue = Marine start
Green = Hive
Grey = Vent
Red/orange = Closed door(unable to open/out of order)
Yellow = Resource node
Here's the layout I drew(in ps because I like it clean and in correct measures <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> ):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_nonamelayout.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
There are a few places here that I've decided to maybe add weldable doors(to open a shorter route like in ns_caged). And there are some places where, for marines, travelling to the hive will take a very small amount of time(I think, but I'll be sure about it when I've tested). At these places I will add a closed door and make another route around which takes longer. Anyways be sure to mention anything that could help make the gameflow work better.
As far as looks go, I've done a lot of experimenting with lights and have found a setting which I'm happy with. I've also taken a few textures and edited them(colors and such) to make the look "my own". I've also been trying to define a certain style for the map which I'm quite happy with so far. And I hope it will stand out as my own when I'm done, so please come with suggestions here too. If you see textures that doesn't really match and so on, tell me!:)
Here is what I have so far(3 days, not working constantly as I have a real life too unfortunately). Mostly it's just rooms with nothing in them or with a few small details just to get a feel. And some places are too dark. I just couldn't be arsed to fix it tonight...
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname03.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Thanks for any comments! I will try to update this as frequently as possible.
It's been too long since I visited these forums, but a few days ago I did and in a wierd way it inspired me. So I fired up NS and played a few games, and by that time I was sort of back in. So I downloaded hammer and all other necessary programs and started mapping. It's been over a year since I touched hammer but I've still got the hang of things(just a few more advanced things that need some educational assistance, but that's for later on).
I drew up a layout for a map after reading through the official guidelines on how to build a map with good gameplay. I might have gotten a few things wrong so please, if you have any, come with suggestions on things to change layout-wise. I've tried to add good choke points for the marines. Also tried to have enough "alien only" paths(vents etc.).
As an explanation to the layout(some of it goes without saying though):
Blue = Marine start
Green = Hive
Grey = Vent
Red/orange = Closed door(unable to open/out of order)
Yellow = Resource node
Here's the layout I drew(in ps because I like it clean and in correct measures <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> ):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_nonamelayout.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
There are a few places here that I've decided to maybe add weldable doors(to open a shorter route like in ns_caged). And there are some places where, for marines, travelling to the hive will take a very small amount of time(I think, but I'll be sure about it when I've tested). At these places I will add a closed door and make another route around which takes longer. Anyways be sure to mention anything that could help make the gameflow work better.
As far as looks go, I've done a lot of experimenting with lights and have found a setting which I'm happy with. I've also taken a few textures and edited them(colors and such) to make the look "my own". I've also been trying to define a certain style for the map which I'm quite happy with so far. And I hope it will stand out as my own when I'm done, so please come with suggestions here too. If you see textures that doesn't really match and so on, tell me!:)
Here is what I have so far(3 days, not working constantly as I have a real life too unfortunately). Mostly it's just rooms with nothing in them or with a few small details just to get a feel. And some places are too dark. I just couldn't be arsed to fix it tonight...
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname03.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Thanks for any comments! I will try to update this as frequently as possible.
Comments
My suggestions:
-Put the hive in the lower right hiveroom at the position, where the node can be found in your overview or else it might be siegeable from too many spots.
-Make the marine base smaller
-In the last picture I would make the orange lights less wide, so you can see the border of the texture behind it or maybe better: Give the lightbrush that texture and clip out the middle for the light texture, so the light it embedded in a smoother pillar.
Cheers,
Cody
Hoping to finish too. Depends how much time and energy I can spend on it. But so far it's working out well between real life and this.
I've been working a good amount of time on this one now and the style is settling in <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I've also been tweaking the lighting settings a little bit to give it a little more "edge".
pSyk0mAn: I fixed the orange lights you mentioned(thanks!), and added more detail and lights to the room:
Also nevermind the blue stuff on the ladder, and the alien restower.
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname06.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I updated the lighting in the marine start:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname05.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'll definetely make it smaller, but that'll have to be later when I feel for it.
Also here's a new area I've been working on today:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname07.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_noname08.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
More detail to come all over the place. I'm just trying to build most of the rooms and corridors and make them work together first.
EDIT:
Ran into a problem with the layout being a tiny bit too small. Travelling to the upper left hive from marine start took just a little over 20 seconds(old layout). So I made a few changes to the layout so the map is now bigger, but I think it will be more balanced too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_nonamelayout02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Thoughts?
Readyroom:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/readyroom01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Cargoish area(equipment storage or something like that):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/cargo01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hive - The Well(upper left on layout):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/hive01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/hive02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
EDIT:
Just a quick update on the progress of the maps layout:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/layoutprogress01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I had to change it a bit where the hive is because of high wpoly count and I managed to bring it a little down.
Have you thought about things like ramps/stairways/ladders? I think every map should have some areas like these that affect movement speed. If your map is flat skulks can just run all over.
Will it be multi level or single level?
I think I like the vents.
Can't wait to see some more screens.
Will it be multi level or single level?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah there will be some elevation. I will try to add as much elevation as I think is reasonable to it. More screens soon btw. And thanks =)
Anyways, just wanted to tell. Be back in a while!
EDIT:
Got my computer up and running again with a fresh harddrive last night. I've tried to recreate the lights file and RAD setting which weren't stored anywhere as I thought they were. First compile just finished. There will be more screens and updates on progress soon!
<img src="http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7560/nsoillayout01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Screenshots of visuals will be available in this thread tomorrow at some point.
Updated the hive(visuals, better r_speeds and lighting):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oil01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oil02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Corridor outside hive(left side on layout):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oil03.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Room in the middle of the map:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oil04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oil05.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Newest area(Pumping station(s) and the corridor(with node) connecting them:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oil06.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oil07.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also I've found a working title for the map. ns_oil. It's supposed to be a station in an oilfield on some planet which drills for oil, pumps it up and make it into gasoline or whatever they use in the future.
That's it for now. Hopefully I'll have updates ready more frequently now that I got my system working again <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Pic3: Looks ok but way too repetitive. Maybe it would already help to reduce the longer lights on the right to 3 (and make them longer), or replace the 2nd and 4th light with some kind of pillar/crossbeam that covers/holds the pipes.
Pic4,5: I'm not sure about that green texlight stripe and the blurly textures above/below it, although the green color fits great.
Pic6: I don't like the yellow texture there and the floor/the step seems a little boring/simple.
Pic7: Again these simple texlight stripes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Maybe you can embed them more into the ceiling so they don't lit the whole room.
pSyk0mAn:
Thanks alot for the input here. I actually couldn't see the repetetiveness until you mentioned it now. I'll definitely do something about that!
About the middle room, I really like the green stripe and the simplicity of it. It's what made me use it in the first place. And it really comes down to a matter of taste in the end.
The yellow texture yes..I know it doesn't really fit there as well as it does in the hive. I'll see what I can find in the wads to replace it. Though I'm nearly hitting the texture limit already.
The white stripes are staying. I like how they look, especially ingame. But I agree the room is too bright. But that's an easy fix. I'll fix it before next compile. Like all the other things I'm gonna fix <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Anyways thanks for great input! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I fixed the lighting in the corridor you mentioned psyko(I also replaced the yellow texture and fixed the repetetiveness in the hive corridor but didn't screen the changes):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oila2_01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
New area:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oila2_02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oila2_03.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
New hive(Oil Storage Tanks), from a few angles(there's a hall of mirrors bug in the corner of the last screen here, will be fixed asap):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oila2_04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oila2_05.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oila2_06.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And an update on the layout progress(with colored vents(red)):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oila2layprgrs01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Now it's even more off the drawn layout, but hive runtimes from MS said it had to be done. The runtimes were too high! Now they're close to perfect!
Feedback is welcome and appreciated as always <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
But unfortunately the layout bothers me, big time :/
Don't know the exact siege ranges, but it seems that it'll be pretty easy for marines to siege the left hive.
Very easy from the node below the hive on that minimap and a pg at that U-turn node covers both hives.
I think it would help to add a vent from the node below the hive to the corridor to the right of the hive. It'd help aliens to defend the node better and they could go either way to attack a siege from either side. The vent would also force the proper siege spot from the south to be moved to the left into the corridor
It would be good, if you also put siege ranges into the minimap. Just memorize the farthest away siege spots from one hive and then create a circular selection with the center at the hive and a fixed size that grazes the siege spots on the minimap, you've memorized.
Add a fringe to the selection and color it to get the siege range visible on the minimap.
It's also good to use a big cylinder brush ingame far beneath the actual map that reflects the siege range to check for possible imba siege spots before building everything around the hive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> We don't need and want another ns_uturn or ns_coldtunr <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
You are right. As it is now it would be way too easy for marines to siege from the cargo room(node under left hive). But I haven't built all the vents yet. And there will be a good amount of vents around all the hives.
Also the u-turn(round round) is about a one minute walk from MS. And the fact that there are two hives close to it(and that you almost have to walk through the hives to get there) shouldn't make it easy to set up a phase gate there(of course depending on which hive(s) the aliens have got. But there will be a good amount of vents in that area too so it will be easier to defend than it looks like right now. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
But thanks for the input. Helps me focus on things.
EDIT:
Found out that the range of the siege cannon is 1100 units. So if I move the hive(in the upper left hive room) to the middle of the room you have to be in the hallway on the right of that hive to siege it. Or in equipment storage(room with node below upper left hive). That movement will most likely help to reduce wpolys in that area too, so it's a win/win situation <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also I am currently around 60% complete with beta 1. So I guess I'll have a beta ready in 2 weeks or maybe a little more. Depends if I run into any major issues. If anyone wants to host a playtest let me know. And anyone who wants to playtest, pm me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I updated the marine start. Didn't exactly make it smaller like mentioned earlier in the thread. But it works better now. Or at least I think it does <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_crude02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
New area, Primary Power Generators:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_crude01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'm considering to move this area alot closer to the boiler hive because I want the mess hall and sleeping area to be closer to surface access(MS).
And I drew up the rest of the layout on the minimap and labeled everything so it's easier to know what I'm talking about when I mention names of rooms and such.
The part of the layout without the white line around are places that aren't built yet. And this layout doesn't have all the vents drawn onto it. Just to have it said, there will be plenty of vents throughout the map <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/layoutlabelled01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also, the mess hall area is not final on this layout so there will be changes. I just drew it mostly so you can get an idea of what it will look like. Though it will stay pretty much the same.
And if anyone have any suggestions regarding anything, feel free to speak your mind!
In some areas, you got the ambient lighting spot on, while in other areas, it's repetitive and too bright.
Areas where I see problems:
Marine start
- There's too much lighting in general, and the entire room is way too bright, it needs to be toned down. It also needs contrasting light / dark areas, as all of marine start just seems like one big light.
This place:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oil03.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
- Too much yellow, and again too bright.
- The repeating lights on the right corner and ceiling center are eyesores and look bad. Khaara infested locations in the map should be dark / dimly lit to provide cover from marines. Try making some of the lights broken to add darkness.
- The wall on the right is too straight and repetitive, break it up and add some alien cover, that spot is just begging for marine domination through long distance pistol sniping.
- Something is wrong with the lip on the left, it's casting a strange shadow around the edges (maybe you have a 1 unit space in hammer or something?)
Curved hallway?:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_oila2_01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
- Lose the light strip on the top of the hall, it looks out of place and erases the lighting contrast and makes the entire area too bright.
- Also get rid of the strip grate light above the resource node and just stick with a spotlight.
- You may also want to tone down the green light in the intersecting hallway, it looks a smidge too bright
Hive locations:
- IMHO, hive locations should be dim / dark with lots of broken / infested things. The walls, floors and ceilings are infested, but nothing is broken or out of place (from the growing hyphe mass.) And speaking of that, you should add some piles of the alien hyphe mass like next to the storage tanks or blobs of it from the ceiling.
People usually don't like dark maps and if the map is played, good players have an advantage, because they are using brighter gamma settings.
If you can't get alien areas nice and moody without hiding them in shadows, you should reconsider your mapping style.
I agree with the bit too strong green light though, and that the lightspot above that node should be the only lightsource insight.
I agree with marine start being too bright. And the hive hallway being not very good so that will be fixed.
The curved hallway area has got too high wpoly count. So I'll have to reconsider the design og the area with the strong green lights. Simplify it.
The same goes for the middle room considering wpolys, and I'm currently working on reducing them. This will make the room different, but I also think it will be better when thinking about gameplay.
Any thoughts on the layout anyone?
Again thanks for input! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
There will be a total of 10 nodes. Or 11 if I make the middle room a double node. I'm not sure. I think I'm gonna do it for beta 1 and see how that works out and if it sucks then it will be removed for beta 2. But I can foresee the map being a "doublestruggle" if I do this. So I'm not sure. If anyone have an input on this, please let me know <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also Psykoman mentioned that a PG at the u-turn(Roundround) will cover both hives. I'm gonna leave that in(with a little change in the design maybe) for beta 1 and see how it works out there too. If it's too hard for aliens to gain control there when rines are trying to set up there, I'll have to reconsider the area of course. The first beta is for testing how ideas work right? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Layout progress first:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/nscrudelayout01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
It's starting to close in on completion. Note that all vents are still not added to the map.
Mess hall(a bit darker than I hoped for):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_crude04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Sleeping Pods(the orange light in the connecting hallway is being replaced by a spotlight):
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_crude05.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The connection between mess hall and primary power generators:
<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/ns_crude03.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Atm there are a few small bugs in the map. Weird clipping in the connection between secondary power generator and crude storage tanks. And some textures disappearing on some faces in RoundRound. Most likely these are easy to fix.
As far as good news goes, I've reduced wpolys in Station system server from above 1100 to a little under 700(peak) and around 500 average. In Roundround I reduced wpolys from above 1000 to a little above 600(peak) and around 400 average. I'm very happy with these results. And still I think I can bring the peak even further down in both places.
Equipment storage peaks at around 800-900 wpolys but I haven't began trying to reduce that so I think I'm good. The rest of the map lies around 500 wpolys average.
The layout is final ?
ps. "equipment" ^^
In order to keep all those pods, maybe switch off one or two red lights above and/or make one flicker and in addition make some pods broken and/or put its door on the floor or open it to give skulks a nice ambush spot (preferably one close to a entrance).
Edit: Or you can replace one in that long line with a small kind of control terminal/console.
Keep up the good work!
Seker: Thank you. The layout isn't final. There are some changes that needs to be made but they're quick.
pSyk0mAn: Thanks for suggestions, I'll look into it. Most likely I will use several of the ideas you provided here.
t0x1kw4st3: Thank you.
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/delinearizehivecontinuity.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And this is literally a one-way ticket to the top left hive starting from 1/3 of the way in. Super linear. That is not to say it is a bad thing, because I can think of an official map that does this (the one with generator hive on the top). So, take my criticism with a grain of salt.
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/super-linear.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
and from my perspective it looks like your layout looks kinda like this:
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/hislayoutfrommyperspective.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
long linear corridors = good for marines
long linear corridors w/ obstacles for alien cover = more balanced
long linear corridors w/ obstacles + vents = more balanced
long linear corridors w/ obstacles + vents + darkness = good for aliens
HOWEVER, I know editing sections that have already been made is a pain in the ass for numerous reasons so your best option might be just to leave it alone, finish the map, release it, learn from it, make another better map with your new experience...
pieces,
t0x1kw4st3