Realistic 3rd person flashlight?

BCSeph

<div class="IPBDescription">Not just a glowing player</div>Not many games have done this due to the amount of resources to render many dynamic lights, but one thing that would add to the atmosphere of NS2 would be realistic 3rd person flashlights. By this I mean you will see other player's flashlight beams exactly as you see your own.

In NS1 (half-life really), if other players have a flashlight you see light emitted from their body (more helpful than the first person HL1 flashlight anyway lol). In source games, it's a little better, but still underpar to what the first person light is.

I was saddened that in Left 4 Dead, the only resemblance of a flashlight beam on other players is a small 2-inch triangle sprite coming off their model's flashlight, no beam or light at all.

So in NS2, imagine hearing an alien run across the ceiling and a bunch of flashlights illuminate it vigorously scanning every crevice. Now imagine that same scene, except the only flashlight beam you see is your own, with a few small beams made with sprites from other players. It would be disappointing to see NS2 not have realisitc 3rd (and 1st for that matter) person flashlight beams.
I know some people might claim it's unbalanced because you can see alot more in the dark in a group of people, but in real life it's like that. That's the advantage of being in a group of people all with flashlights. To counter this just make darker hallways, thus requiring teamwork even more so you have some illumination from all sides.

Drummer

thats a really neat idea, i like how it would encourage marines to move together so they have more light as a group. i know the engine is capable of dynamic lighting and it might be something simple to have a light beam coming from the player model and moving with it, but im not sure what kind of strain this would be on the server/client performance. maybe we could get some input from max on this...

Sarisel

Would be interesting especially if lighting settings would be enforced for all players - as it is right now in NS1, you can light up the entire map pretty easily with some client-side settings. Along with the "flare flashlight" idea (where you are able to light up areas by overcharging your flashlight and throwing it for a one time use), this would make playing as a marine much more dangerous.

Ongre

Very very good idea, can't wait to see it IG.

GaussWaffle

Like you said, this usually isn't done because it's very intensive on the cpu, and ultimately detracts from the fps for reacting to that skulk you're looking for

But if it can be effectively pulled off or put on as a option, then I'm all for it, great idea

Align

Since we already have dynamic light calculations out the ass if the videos are anything to go by, you can probably feel pretty safe in assuming this is already in.

PseudoKnight

VALVe chose not to do it in L4D because few cards could handle it. It simply stresses the system way too much. Most people experience a drop of around 15 FPS just by turning on the dynamic lighting of their own flashlight. Now imagine that multiplied by four and you'd get L4D with dynamic lights on all flashlights. Now imagine that again multiplied by two and that's NS in some situations. They'd have to put a hard limit on it, like 2-4 flashlights at a time. Or they could reduce the quality of the flashlight, perhaps only shadowing 2 while projecting a regular spotlight for the rest. There's a number of config settings they could implement to scale this, but it's not a high priority as most people won't be able to reasonably experience it. (and even then would turn it off for an increase in FPS -- it's a multiplayer game after all)

<a href="http://forums.l4dmaps.net/f12/reason-why-we-cant-see-other-players-flashlight-t253.html" target="_blank">http://forums.l4dmaps.net/f12/reason-why-w...light-t253.html</a>

douchebagatron

to make assumptions about the ns2 engine based upon the source engine doesn't make any sense. especially since the video showing off the engine showed dynamic volumetric lighting, which is exactly what flashlight beams would have. the reason it's not doable on the source engine is because the source engine was not designed for any dynamic lighting at all. dynamic lighting was something added in later with the orange box, and the engine is really not optimized for it.

enf0rcer

<a href="http://www.viddyou.com/viddstream?videoid=41607" target="_blank">http://www.viddyou.com/viddstream?videoid=41607</a>

at the 2 min mark.. shows you an example of what l4d could have looked like. You have to keep in mind with NS2 that there can be more than 4 marines at any given time, and I'd guess NS2 could be susceptible to the same slowdowns, regardless of whether the game was coded with dynamic lighting in mind.

BCSeph

If any of you played Quake 4 campaign, you will notice the troops that run around with you in some parts all have 3rd person dynamic flashlights that look the same as you own. It looked really cool and didnt lag the 7800gt I had at the time. And if i'm not mistaken Quake 4 uses a modified Doom 3 engine, so surely the NS2 engine will be more optimized than that.

battlearmour

Unless you have a godlike computer it's unlikely to be practical.

Nordom

In the l4d vid link that was posted before that dynamic flashlight looked sexy as all hell, and really would fit well into the NS universe . In that vid it showed l4d in a much earlier state as far as game play goes. I think its fairly obvious that the reason that that style of lighting was left out of l4d is because A it was a rez hog and B it probably proved to hard to see making the game less enjoyable over all.

I think that this is definitely and idea that should be looked into, but at the same time NS2 is aiming to play on a wide range of PCs so we might have to wait till NS3 for that =) I do eagerly await Max's two cents on the issue though. =)

steppin'razor

it could be used for griefing, but its still a solid idea. I was disappointed that L4D didn't have it either.

IronFist

<!--quoteo(post=1700016:date=Feb 11 2009, 06:09 AM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(steppin'razor @ Feb 11 2009, 06:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700016"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it could be used for griefing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<img src="http://packethammer.com/randfiles/ns2_flashlight.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Ongre

Hahahaha <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

steppin'razor

rofl

badtrip

ahahaha you've just made my day!

goblin

hasuhsuahsuhasuhasuashuashuashuasuhasuashuashuashuashasuhasuashuashuashsuhsuhasu
sh xD

asdhuasdhasdu xD

my god!

BCSeph

priceless!

Lord Schnitzel

In Quake 4 you could see your teammates flashlight's spots on the level architecture. Sequences with 3-4 Marines scanning a pitch black room with their lights... that really created a cool atmosphere and gave you the impression that the NPCs were curious/afraid/whatever. Cool thing.

maggio.nl

Id think this opens some ideas as too. Dodging flashlights as an alien. Which seems impossible but after a bit of practices to me seems apsolutly doable

darktimes

anything is better then the HL1 flashlight!

trinity.ns

push..
plz comment @ developers!

trinity.ns

push (is that allowed, btw?)

killkrazy

i doubt its necessary, consider the communities discussion of a subject 'pushing' enough, and this isnt the ideas forum.

I didn't see it mentioned, but imagine the amount of packaged data that would need to be sent and received for the Flashlight to show on all clients...
the NS engine (PLEASE CLARIFY THE FINAL NAME, DEVS!!) looks like it was designed to handle dynamic lighting well, but as I say, the data would be huge i think

Harimau

I thought they said it was called the Evolution engine? Personally, I don't really like the name.

kasracer

<!--quoteo(post=1701082:date=Feb 21 2009, 09:53 PM:name=killkrazy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(killkrazy @ Feb 21 2009, 09:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't see it mentioned, but imagine the amount of packaged data that would need to be sent and received for the Flashlight to show on all clients...[...] the data would be huge i think<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The data wouldn't be huge. The data included is where players are and their orientation. The only thing you'd need to do with the flash light is send 1 extra bit saying whether the flashlight is on or off. Then the client side will render it.

The only time you run into problems with that is users can now cheat and modify their client to illuminate everything. If this is to be prevented then lighting would need to be controlled on the server side most likely through hiding player models but that's a completely different but very complex issue.

Thief

Some pretty nice suggestions in this thread. This would definitely add some spooky atmosphere while creeping around with your buddy marines (not to mention being on the alien receiving end , either being chased by a pack of flashlights or hiding and watching the marines search frantically <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)

steppin'razor

I have a feeling its not that simple to do, otherwise it would have been done before. I remember listening to devs talk about wanting to, but not being able to.

INKEDOUT

It wouldn't be that big, L4D has realistic flash lights on it... or it does on the 360 version... never bothered getting it for the PC... if they can do dynamic lighting on the fly, as they pretty much seem to have now, then I can't see why not... but then, maybe 8 marines all with flashlights might clog things up a bit... who knows?

steppin'razor

well I have L4D on pc and I can say other player flashlights aren't realistic