Thoughts on Environmental Props
botchiball
Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-04-24 Member: 15810Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Mainly in response to 'Squeal like a Pig's allowance of modell</div>After seeing Squeal_like_a_Pig's post saying anyone could try their hand at modelling for NS2, I went through the concept art and started looking for ideas of what to model. I of course found plenty, but I also came across a few questions.
The first being of a technical sort: What are the standards of environmental props? Specifically the number of polygons to shoot for; granted this number varies depending on the importance of the model, but how about suggestions for a minimum and maximum number of polygons, or a suggested maximum polygons for an entire room. What size should texture images be for a typical model? What file type they should be in?
And I have a fairly specific question, but I'm not sure if I know the proper terminology. The question comes from seeing the front of the mobile seige cannon with the words 'suck it' written in red paint and hearing the videocast speak of 'personalization'. This made me think, if all MSCs say the same thing on their hoods, it wouldn't be very personal. But in Half-Life 1 (and I'm sure it was carried on to Half-Life 2) there was a way to have multiple textures (or even full sections of the model) which could be switched out for additional ones. A good example most people will remember is the "Houndeye" I think it was called - the little 3 legged dogs which would zap electricity around themselves. When they "blinked", they were actually switching rapidly between multiple textures over their 'face'. Of course, the textures don't need to switch rapidly, they can simply be replaced in a more permanent fashion. Additionally the Barney model actually had 3 states of models for him carrying a gun - either in his holster, his hand, or not at all. Anyway, the question is: Will this concept be part of the NS2 engine?
It would definately create a multitude of possibilities - from personalizing equipment, to different faces for marines, or making kharaa "faces" unique as well. The devs have already spoken of making some map textures (or actually, it seemed like all) able to switch out similar to how its described above, or possibly by layering text onto a section of texture.. I'm not quite sure, but the question stays the same.
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Secondly, I have a question about a specific image - envconcept03.jpg, or in the gallery: 3rd column, 2nd row. After looking at this image for a while, I noticed that the walls, cieling, and floor all seem to be put together in a fashion similar to cubicles. For example: You start off with a giant box, put in the large pillars, then hang the cieling down and lay the flooring across support beams -> similar to how homes are built now. The question from all this is: Is this how the devs actually intend for some rooms to be built? Out of pieces similar to legos or kinex? Or would it be better for map designers to build said rooms out of "thin-sheets" with only minor model additions?
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Thirdly, looking at the Female Marine Concept image, the door behind her makes me think that a model (or several models) for a door could be pre-programmed to open and close as an entity, and could be of much higher quality that something a mapper could make. But then, do models stop polygons behind then from being created - meaning would a series of double doors (like an airlock) between two model filled rooms reduce the poly count for a viewer on either side of the double doors? Or would that even matter with this engine? Thats actually a concern I have for the pieced together scenery described in the second set of questions, though in that situation there would be gaps between models letting light through.
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Fourthly, is it possible to have rag-doll physics on parts of models? For example - could I make a toaster, and then have an electrical cord and plug coming out the bottom where the cord could dangle and move as though it were real? A toaster is a poor example, but how about wires hanging from the cieling of a map like several of the environment images: envconcept02, envconcept03, envconcept07, envconcept11, to name a few anyway. Or how about a teddy bear, could the limbs be set up to wave as though they were connected and not just part of a completely solid bear?
Hope I didn't sound too confusing.. or stupid.
The first being of a technical sort: What are the standards of environmental props? Specifically the number of polygons to shoot for; granted this number varies depending on the importance of the model, but how about suggestions for a minimum and maximum number of polygons, or a suggested maximum polygons for an entire room. What size should texture images be for a typical model? What file type they should be in?
And I have a fairly specific question, but I'm not sure if I know the proper terminology. The question comes from seeing the front of the mobile seige cannon with the words 'suck it' written in red paint and hearing the videocast speak of 'personalization'. This made me think, if all MSCs say the same thing on their hoods, it wouldn't be very personal. But in Half-Life 1 (and I'm sure it was carried on to Half-Life 2) there was a way to have multiple textures (or even full sections of the model) which could be switched out for additional ones. A good example most people will remember is the "Houndeye" I think it was called - the little 3 legged dogs which would zap electricity around themselves. When they "blinked", they were actually switching rapidly between multiple textures over their 'face'. Of course, the textures don't need to switch rapidly, they can simply be replaced in a more permanent fashion. Additionally the Barney model actually had 3 states of models for him carrying a gun - either in his holster, his hand, or not at all. Anyway, the question is: Will this concept be part of the NS2 engine?
It would definately create a multitude of possibilities - from personalizing equipment, to different faces for marines, or making kharaa "faces" unique as well. The devs have already spoken of making some map textures (or actually, it seemed like all) able to switch out similar to how its described above, or possibly by layering text onto a section of texture.. I'm not quite sure, but the question stays the same.
_____________________________
Secondly, I have a question about a specific image - envconcept03.jpg, or in the gallery: 3rd column, 2nd row. After looking at this image for a while, I noticed that the walls, cieling, and floor all seem to be put together in a fashion similar to cubicles. For example: You start off with a giant box, put in the large pillars, then hang the cieling down and lay the flooring across support beams -> similar to how homes are built now. The question from all this is: Is this how the devs actually intend for some rooms to be built? Out of pieces similar to legos or kinex? Or would it be better for map designers to build said rooms out of "thin-sheets" with only minor model additions?
_____________________________
Thirdly, looking at the Female Marine Concept image, the door behind her makes me think that a model (or several models) for a door could be pre-programmed to open and close as an entity, and could be of much higher quality that something a mapper could make. But then, do models stop polygons behind then from being created - meaning would a series of double doors (like an airlock) between two model filled rooms reduce the poly count for a viewer on either side of the double doors? Or would that even matter with this engine? Thats actually a concern I have for the pieced together scenery described in the second set of questions, though in that situation there would be gaps between models letting light through.
_____________________________
Fourthly, is it possible to have rag-doll physics on parts of models? For example - could I make a toaster, and then have an electrical cord and plug coming out the bottom where the cord could dangle and move as though it were real? A toaster is a poor example, but how about wires hanging from the cieling of a map like several of the environment images: envconcept02, envconcept03, envconcept07, envconcept11, to name a few anyway. Or how about a teddy bear, could the limbs be set up to wave as though they were connected and not just part of a completely solid bear?
Hope I didn't sound too confusing.. or stupid.