School shooting...
Retales
Panigg cultist Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19180Members
Panigg cultist Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19180Members
<div class="IPBDescription">...Here in Finland, again -_-</div>So, apparently around 11 am local time some nutjob started shooting at a school. So far there's at least 9 dead, and the shooter in critical condition. Shot himself in the head, surprisingly.
On Monday (yesterday), the shooter had been interviewed by the police about some videos posted on the internet. The police decided that there was no reason or enough evidence to revoke his (temporary) license to own the gun.
What is rather chilling to me, personally, is that the shooting was only about 30 km from my hometown.
Found a link: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7630969.stm" target="_blank">BBC site</a>
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09/23/finland.school.shooting/index.html" target="_blank">CNN</a>
On Monday (yesterday), the shooter had been interviewed by the police about some videos posted on the internet. The police decided that there was no reason or enough evidence to revoke his (temporary) license to own the gun.
What is rather chilling to me, personally, is that the shooting was only about 30 km from my hometown.
Found a link: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7630969.stm" target="_blank">BBC site</a>
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09/23/finland.school.shooting/index.html" target="_blank">CNN</a>
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Comments
I hope nobody you know was killed, and I hope they save the life of the shooter so he can spend it in prison.
--Scythe--
Incidentally, note the survival rate for shooting sprees: Apparently, killing yourself isn't THAT hard if you're determined. Take heed, wrist-slashers.
From what I have seen of it, that makes sense. All that was on youtube was a video of him shooting a gun at a shooting range. To be honest I'm surprised he was even questioned about it.
It sucks that he went on a shooting spree, but I am not convinced the police did anything wrong, and in fact they took more action than I would expect from cops in the US.
Echoing Scythe's comments, it is always disturbing when something like this happens close to where you live.
Last year there was a mugging on my front door step... girl had to go to the hospital, and then at halloween some kid got shot in the face behind the gas station I always go to for food stuffs... and actually over the weekend someone got stabbed to death there too... I went to this gas station the morning after that happened but only found out later that day via emails about the stabbing in the very early morning... Really creepy.
It made me feel not so happy that I had brought my girlfriend there for bagels that morning.
I'm not surprised that the media has a huuuuge boner about the ensuing blame-game. Regarding the fact that the shooter was questioned yesterday about the firing range video he had posted on YouTube, some interviewer was already all like "omg why did you let a crazed gunman go out on the town on purpose?!?!". Dillweed
However, I wonder if it was the visit from the cops that spurred his plan into action? He figured they were on to him and had to act quickly. Again, I'm not blaming the cops for anything, just speculation since it was the next day.
Well, I bet he had a door to his room.
As did all the other school-shooter...
BAN DOORS!
As did all the other school-shooter...
BAN DOORS!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Better yet, BAN WINDOWS. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Which is worse?
A) Arming every sane citizen with a gun so whenever someone attempts to go on a spree/rob someone they die without causing much damage.
B) Loss of life due to inappropriate/unsafe use of firearms. Plus everyone would have access to a gun.
A) Arming every sane citizen with a gun so whenever someone attempts to go on a spree/rob someone they die without causing much damage.
B) Loss of life due to inappropriate/unsafe use of firearms. Plus everyone would have access to a gun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is worse?
A.) A False Dichotomy that says everyone has easy access to a gun either way.
B.) Actually arming "Every Sane Person", and then having school shootings still happen because school children still won't be carrying guns, and even if they did the majority would not know how to fire them well.
You can't prevent these types of things from happening in a free society. My heart goes out to all those affected.
A.) A False Dichotomy that says everyone has easy access to a gun either way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't about guns, I had trouble phrasing it right. This is about the effects of arming every citizen.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->B.) Actually arming "Every Sane Person", and then having school shootings still happen because school children still won't be carrying guns,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you mean shootings at kindergarten/junior high level? I don't think those happen too often. The biggest problems are high school and college shootings. Plus even if the kids are unarmed, the campus staff can still run over and help.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and even if they did the majority would not know how to fire them well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when do you need to be able to fire well to hit something/someone 10 yards away? Just teach kids to aim down their sight system and to watch for bystanders. Elementary directions.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't prevent these types of things from happening in a free society. My heart goes out to all those affected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only reason these kids go around killing people is because they know their victims are helpless and can be slaughtered. It would be a lot different if they knew they would get a small caliber bullet through the brain stem as soon as they covered someone with the muzzle.
I'm sure someone will still attempt it, but the outcome will be significantly less severe.
This lad shot himself in the head and this is the general MO. Fear of death or punishment doesn't factor into these cases. It also isn't about how many people they kill, they just want attention.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you mean shootings at kindergarten/junior high level? I don't think those happen too often. The biggest problems are high school and college shootings. Plus even if the kids are unarmed, the campus staff can still run over and help.
Since when do you need to be able to fire well to hit something/someone 10 yards away? Just teach kids to aim down their sight system and to watch for bystanders. Elementary directions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Giving kids handguns is a stupid idea. Period. It would also be ineffectual. People have built in biases and defence mechanisms against killing. Unless a person has trained extensively with a gun they're going to have a hard time killing anyone even in self defence. A better solution would be to have police on the premises since their trained to use their guns.
Or death lasers that would immediately identify and shoot a threat. No questions asked.
Shoot first... and then let the mortals deal with the morality.
How much attention would someone get if they killed one person and then had their brains blown out from 12 different directions simultaneously? Wouldn't be a spree, would be a murder and would only receive as much press as one. (very little)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Giving kids handguns is a stupid idea. Period. It would also be ineffectual. People have built in biases and defence mechanisms against killing. Unless a person has trained extensively with a gun they're going to have a hard time killing anyone even in self defence. A better solution would be to have police on the premises since their trained to use their guns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once you have enough people wanting to kill the same person, they'll all assume that everyone else will kill him and will just join on the fun of putting lead through THE ENEMY. If not, tell them to aim for less lethal action. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
No matter where a bullet will hit, it will subdue anyone not under the influence of CNS depressants. Shock, major trauma and all.
Incidentally, note the survival rate for shooting sprees: Apparently, killing yourself isn't THAT hard if you're determined. Take heed, wrist-slashers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You may find <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Tipping-Point-Little-Things-Difference/dp/0316346624/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222223201&sr=8-1" target="_blank">The Tipping Point</a> interesting. It's one of those pseudo-scientific paper backs, and it tries to define communication virally. It's been out since before the whole "viral advertising" craze hit, so it's not THAT much of a hack.
Anyway, one of the topics touched on is broken windows theory and it's impact on legitimizing behavior through environment and imitation. For instance, after a suicide story is printed on page one of a newspaper, it's apparently not uncommon to see a spike in suicides as the story somehow makes suicide more "okay" and so people are enabled to do it.
The book relates this same phenomenon to the recent (post Columbine) outbreak of school shootings. If you buy into the idea, it boils down to this: If these shooters survived, they probably wouldn't be able to tell you why they did it, or if they could, it would simply be a copy of the same rhetoric used by previous shooters. Stand Alone Complex also comes to mind...
Are we picturing some sort of movie scene where twelve regular guys like you and I put on sunglasses, pull out their giant magnum revolvers and calmly shoot one bullet each at the nefarious murderer? Because I don't see it. I see a random bunch of people, half of them in hysterics, and bullets ricocheting every which way, hitting random bystanders in their squishy bits.
Italy, cause whole Regions are basically governed by the Mafia. (No, I am not joking)
Also, I doubt going back to the wild west with guns for everybody is the answer. Imagine all of the assaults and robbings turning into death shootings, regular bar brawls turning into murder. I could agree that these kinds of crimes could have less victims, but I don't think the benefits outweigh the negatives.
just to point out that your facts are skewed in one direction (and possibly wrong):
The normal way of looking at crime is amount of crime per unit (generally 100,000 when looking at a country), this is supposed to take into account the fact that large countries (USA) should have more crime just because.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence</a> <-- wiki page on gun violence statistics (basically just a C&P of a UN report).
The highest rates of homicide (both with and without guns and combined) are Colombia and South Africa, are we really that surprised?
The Swiss are rather non violent and have just over 1 homicide per 100,000 people (They also don't have many people), and less then 1/2 of those are with guns.
Italy isn't on there for what ever reason (it is not actually in the report).
The US has 39% of our homicides coming from guns (Kinda low for one of the most armed nations)
Finland has a relatively low rate of and percentage of homicides involving guns, but they actually have a rather middle rate of homicides in total (I am surprised, I always assumed the Finns were peaceful).
Jesus, what are your walls made out of, one foot steel plate?
See I had this idea for a building material which would let bullets penetrate the first few inches to prevent ricocheting and then be stopped by the shear, it'd be made out of concrete reinforced with steel bars. It seem like the perfect solution for preventing bystander deaths, I wonder why we didn't invent it yet. Oh, no, wait...
BTW, Switzerland is one of the most peaceful countries in the world, WHAT THE.
Locked.
--Scythe--