Map Dynamics
t0x1kw4st3
Join Date: 2008-04-27 Member: 64167Members
Join Date: 2008-04-27 Member: 64167Members
<div class="IPBDescription">(for strategic value)</div>Maps should have speed/distance/potential relationships to promote a greater breadth of strategy.
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<b>MAP DYNAMICS: HOW A MAP SUPPORTS ALL POSSIBLE STRATEGIES</b>
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Strategy: (Speed / Distance / Potential Relationships) + (Commander Manipulation)
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How long does it take for the first Onos to pop given an alien team of 8 players have a constant supply of three res towers. From this time, the commander knows he can do certain things without being hounded by an Onos. It means he can rely heavily on LMGs and an occasional Shotgun before this point, but then must upgrade to HA or HMGs after this point. This factors into available resources.
Or -- how long does it take for the first skulks to reach marine start? Did all the skulks rush? This would be considered the rush strategy, and depending on how much "time" marines have to prepare for the rush, the less effective it will be (intel/thecounter). What is the drawback to the rush?
Or -- the time it takes to travel from Marine Start/Alien Hive to their common hive. Is it equal? Do the marines arrive first? Do the aliens arrive first? What is the most lethal thing that can happen at that point? What is the potential?
The idea of potential breaks in here -- did the marines stay back in base for two shotguns to drop before venturing out? Or did they straight up rush the nearest hive? Potential is in the squad equipment, too. This is why I think Dropping Weapons should have a timer associated with it. NS1 let you drop 10 shotguns / 0 seconds. I feel like there should be a timer on how many shotguns can be dropped at a given moment. When the Armory completes, it can only drop 1 shotgun - because another one is "in development". It takes strategic time to complete another shotgun (10 - 20 seconds). And the shotguns can be "saved up" so that 10 shotties can be dropped at once, just not at first.
<b>Example of Micro-Based Map Dynamics (Commander:Marine relationship)</b>: The Speedpack
Other forms of map-dynamics include things that can and can not be accomplished without aid. IE: The marine normally jumps 2 meters. But, if the marine had a speed pack, he can jump 2.5 meters. So, mapwise, this means there could be strategy in moving around the map, meaning the commander can drop a speed packs right before the jump for his squad of marines to bypass an obstacle. This is in the same vein of ideology as "weld" points.
So, if mappers implemented 2.5 meter jumps into their maps, they would essentially be creating an obstacle (that can be overcome with commander intervention). Where they place these 2.5 meter jumps could have strategic value, which is the entire goal of this post. I think there should be good strategies able to be employed by Marines & Aliens, and proper counters (intel). This would feed into one of the pillars of NS, a <b>RTS</b> FPS.
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/mapdyn1-1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
But, strategy in NS is both supreme and almost unmanageable due to lack of control (compared to perfect control other RTS games allow). I think giving the potential for a highly competitive environment while maintaining the needs of the random pubber would be a good move. I'm done. THX.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<b>MAP DYNAMICS: HOW A MAP SUPPORTS ALL POSSIBLE STRATEGIES</b>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strategy: (Speed / Distance / Potential Relationships) + (Commander Manipulation)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How long does it take for the first Onos to pop given an alien team of 8 players have a constant supply of three res towers. From this time, the commander knows he can do certain things without being hounded by an Onos. It means he can rely heavily on LMGs and an occasional Shotgun before this point, but then must upgrade to HA or HMGs after this point. This factors into available resources.
Or -- how long does it take for the first skulks to reach marine start? Did all the skulks rush? This would be considered the rush strategy, and depending on how much "time" marines have to prepare for the rush, the less effective it will be (intel/thecounter). What is the drawback to the rush?
Or -- the time it takes to travel from Marine Start/Alien Hive to their common hive. Is it equal? Do the marines arrive first? Do the aliens arrive first? What is the most lethal thing that can happen at that point? What is the potential?
The idea of potential breaks in here -- did the marines stay back in base for two shotguns to drop before venturing out? Or did they straight up rush the nearest hive? Potential is in the squad equipment, too. This is why I think Dropping Weapons should have a timer associated with it. NS1 let you drop 10 shotguns / 0 seconds. I feel like there should be a timer on how many shotguns can be dropped at a given moment. When the Armory completes, it can only drop 1 shotgun - because another one is "in development". It takes strategic time to complete another shotgun (10 - 20 seconds). And the shotguns can be "saved up" so that 10 shotties can be dropped at once, just not at first.
<b>Example of Micro-Based Map Dynamics (Commander:Marine relationship)</b>: The Speedpack
Other forms of map-dynamics include things that can and can not be accomplished without aid. IE: The marine normally jumps 2 meters. But, if the marine had a speed pack, he can jump 2.5 meters. So, mapwise, this means there could be strategy in moving around the map, meaning the commander can drop a speed packs right before the jump for his squad of marines to bypass an obstacle. This is in the same vein of ideology as "weld" points.
So, if mappers implemented 2.5 meter jumps into their maps, they would essentially be creating an obstacle (that can be overcome with commander intervention). Where they place these 2.5 meter jumps could have strategic value, which is the entire goal of this post. I think there should be good strategies able to be employed by Marines & Aliens, and proper counters (intel). This would feed into one of the pillars of NS, a <b>RTS</b> FPS.
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/mapdyn1-1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
But, strategy in NS is both supreme and almost unmanageable due to lack of control (compared to perfect control other RTS games allow). I think giving the potential for a highly competitive environment while maintaining the needs of the random pubber would be a good move. I'm done. THX.
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/Mapping_Guidelines.html" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/Map...Guidelines.html</a>
It covers essential ideas, including time between MS and Hive locations and dimension. It also provides handy tips on how to create a good atmosphere.
Also, there are some maps that do take advantage of speed/movement bonuses. If I remember correctly, ns_nexus has several areas that have shortcuts if you pull off some bunny hopping.
Aliens can always reach Marine Start before Marines get to the Hive. Aliens move faster. The key is that in an open room, Aliens will lose, and Marines can beacon back and wipe the Alien team.
There already are some strategic subtleties in NS1. Take a look at serious pro level comm guides and you'll realize there are several strategies. You example of the skulk rush is actually very accurate since one good shotgun can easily wipe a Skulk rush, not to mention the Aliens will be not generating res from RTS until they respawn, and that means chambers are later as well. Their' only chance is to regain that res from kills, which in higher level play is usually not the case. Marines are just too good of a shot.
I do agree that sometimes NS can feel stagnant in terms of overall strategy, but that is the nature of the game. It's is first and foremost a FPS game, with a strong RTS element involved. Hopefully the RTS side can be expanded, but I hope not at the cost of the FPS side.
These guildelines are pretty good, I guess. But, <b>form follows function</b>. Are we trying to create really good looking spaceship interiors, or are we trying to create high-strategy maps. Are we trying to design a game that looks good? Or a game that is as intricate as a chess board (and its' rules).
<b>The FPS element is extremely chaotic</b> and can put even the best strategy on its knees. But, the potential for the "best strategy" and its' "counter strategy" should exist.
So, if you were designing a game board, you would try to incorporate as many of these little details as possible. In terms of NS, the game-board seems to be an excercise in art, and bridges on strategy in ns_nexus (with bhopping techniques). So, I think, identify all the little relationships and put them into the map -- even make them (it's NS2, right? You can change things up a little, add things that promote these "relationships"). Then <b>know</b> that these little secrets can have huge impact on strategy, before the strategic prowess of this game falls to the chaotic bloodthirsty fragfest it married in the process of becoming great.
I can't even begin to show how an ex CS vet can pwn skulks and fades like there is no tomorrow. This throws the game balance off. FPS balance is extremely hard to calculate because it is competely based on variability (players, player skill levels) and this itself imbalances the intricate thing that is strategy. But, one thing you CAN control is map dynamics and potential strategy and pray for the game where these implements are used properly and to their desired effect. + replay = instant sex.
But I'm rambling a little bit. I think map dynamics are crucial to making maps. And I have to agree with t0x1kw4st3 here that the ambience is nice and all, but ultimately it comes down to gameplay, and if you're not careful, you'll easily put hives within siege range without much resistance. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hive5.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::hive::" border="0" alt="hive5.gif" />
Inversely, you can make the game onesided for aliens by having ventilation systems end at the marine base (although the jetpack advantage would be huge if the marines last that long).
I've always been a fan of the 'home court' advantage maps in which if you are a human in Kharaa territory, you should be watching every angle from every direction for that skulk to come out and bite you. Inversely, if you are Kharaa in the frontiersmen territory, you have little place to shield yourself from bullet fire. The best maps are done like this in my opinion, and make for good games, not merely ones in which the aggressor always wins. To win, you must be with your team and you must be playing very well with them.
With that said, map layout should always come before map aesthetics.
Agreed, but we don't have anything to work with yet besides NS1 experience. I'm out.
Yay! \o/
This is why good mappers outline the layout first, then set the tone. Sometimes they can set the tone so they can incorporate it as they go (the room-by-room method) but usually there is a basic layout already in mind.
Bug Stix about how much time he pumped into figuring out ns_nexus.