Well technically the only physical difference between a general and a lieutenant is the number of stars and stripes on the uniform. The real difference lies in who takes orders from who. If the 2nd commander is a lieutenant, then he follows orders from the general. If he doesn't, he gets demoted. In this case, he gets kicked from the chair. If you were in a clan which required two commanders doing very specific operations, you wouldn't want something getting in the way like 'enforced constraints.' The constraints the commander picks can be any one he wants. The only difference here being that rather than being limited to doing things, he *can* do them, but the commander will kick'em if he does.
then the 1st commander will simply never kick him, a he tells him make those, he doesnt instead makes a PG at the 2nd hive, hell, it works. Ther MUST be a diffrence between them, simply having 2 commanders doesnt sound right at all.
Or let me suggest the alternative. *gasp* have one commander do everything the second commander can do with varying degrees of proficiency dictated by commander skill.
That way you don't detract a damage dealing player from the ground.
He means, 1st commander creates a 2nd command chair with the following abilities enabled:
Creation Upgrades
Though, worried the 2nd commander might try to recycle structures, doesn't allow the 2nd commander to do so.
That would work. I just didn't think abilities should be disabled for the 2nd commander if you so happened to actually *want* your 2nd commander to do certain things.
<!--quoteo(post=1687836:date=Sep 11 2008, 12:34 PM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Sep 11 2008, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687836"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spellman, the main commander can do all the support commanders duties, so u dont HAVE to have the s2nd commander in small games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adding in superfluous gameplay items just for special case settings is usually not a good idea unless they are toggleable, usually by the server variables. For example, Empire allows the server settings to choose how fast resources are produced and how many resources each side starts with per map, a nice feature that is rarely used, but available. I am not saying it's a bad idea, just that it probably has a very low usefulness in a typical game setting. You merely have to reach a point where removing another player from the field is worth the extra overwatch from a 2nd commander, which requires a very large team size.
<!--quoteo(post=1687839:date=Sep 11 2008, 12:52 PM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Sep 11 2008, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you implying I didn't relieve the main commander enough with my support commander ideals? I clearly see that I did relieve some pain on the Main Commander's back by adding these ideals, I agree with your other post, I think was in the missile thread, and I will continue my support of the 2nd commander only in this thread, and won't give long detailed 'references' to my support commander idea. But you still have me confused on half your post, mostly the "specific" at the end, are you talking about the 'Idea Map' I went to that link and was confused, If you can help me on that, thank you. Maybe giving the support commander more capabilities would help some, maybe giving more powers similar to the main commander, some research abilities at the arms lab maybe? Mostly the 2nd commander, which I dubbed 'Support' for a reason was to support the main commander, mostly by giving him more attention to major matters than the bots, while the support commander can drive the Bots into battle. I'd love to hear a more organized version of what you think the 2nd commander should be able to do and command, unless you disagree with the idea a second commander is requires to have a easier command capability.
Did i read your post right <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Moving through this methodically.
I was trying to quickly condense your ideas posted elsewhere so they are in this thread. I pointed out that your primary argument is to help relieve the pressure on the main comm, especially when it comes to managing autonomous units like a weld bot.
The Idea Map is a way to categorize and log good threads that have merit and a strong discussion. Basically a way to help keep track of major points people keep bringing up. Read the wiki page for a more detailed explanation on how to use it.
I also point out that you should place your ideas on how a support commander operates in this thread so that we don't have to track down all the other threads with your ideas in them.
Lastly, here's my specific idea on how a support/2nd commander should operate.
You pay to build a second chair, perhaps an add-on to the original CC. When the support Commander enters, they gain the abilities to drop items, buildings, research tech, and manage NPC units. Essentially the exact same abilities as the primary commander. However, they do not gain the ability to override things done by the primary commander, such as recycling the primary commander's buildings. Giving waypoints and controlling bots are a bit trickier, and I would suggest that the primary commander solely controls waypoints while the support commander gains sole command of NPC units like the MASC. In the case of no secondary commander, the primary commander retains all abilities, thereby making it so that a support commander is not required. Note also that they still share the same res pool and upgrades cannot by done in parallel. i.e. if the support commander starts to upgrade something, both must wait for it to finish or cancel it and start another research. Support commanders cannot cancel primary commander research.
This provides a cost for the 2nd commander (time, res, extra player) but also benefits (separation of some powers, easier management). This makes it useful, but with a cost, making it a strategic choice with its benefits and weaknesses.
I again iterate that it will be superfluous and only useful is 1) the team size is very large, 2) there are many NPC units both in number and diversity, or 3) the primary comm is noob and needs the help as training wheels.
Well, we both agree, that the 2nd commander isn't needed, but a good helper.
I unfortunately still support the idea of a more 'unit' commander while the other is the builder. Your ideas could be just as balanced as mine, I'm just afraid of 2nd commander abusing, thinking he IS the main.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->perhaps an add-on to the original CC<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've had a picture of that, looking like a motor-cycle with alittle seat to the side, but I'd make foranother building, unless its like...
You build a Command Chair, now you get to place it, you could make another Main Commander Chair, or if you put it next to a already fully built CC, it will auto attach and you can left click, adding the little side seat.
Some diffence would make it all better, as some people who command would rather command the vehicles, and let the 2nd commander deal with the marines, maybe a few switchs in the Command Hub to give 2nd comm marine and main NPC(Seige, welder, ?Scout?)
And so you all know, I'm about to be run under by Ike, so if power go out, ehh, I'll be gone for some days.
Comments
That way you don't detract a damage dealing player from the ground.
Creation
Upgrades
Though, worried the 2nd commander might try to recycle structures, doesn't allow the 2nd commander to do so.
That would work. I just didn't think abilities should be disabled for the 2nd commander if you so happened to actually *want* your 2nd commander to do certain things.
Adding in superfluous gameplay items just for special case settings is usually not a good idea unless they are toggleable, usually by the server variables. For example, Empire allows the server settings to choose how fast resources are produced and how many resources each side starts with per map, a nice feature that is rarely used, but available. I am not saying it's a bad idea, just that it probably has a very low usefulness in a typical game setting. You merely have to reach a point where removing another player from the field is worth the extra overwatch from a 2nd commander, which requires a very large team size.
<!--quoteo(post=1687839:date=Sep 11 2008, 12:52 PM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Sep 11 2008, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you implying I didn't relieve the main commander enough with my support commander ideals? I clearly see that I did relieve some pain on the Main Commander's back by adding these ideals, I agree with your other post, I think was in the missile thread, and I will continue my support of the 2nd commander only in this thread, and won't give long detailed 'references' to my support commander idea. But you still have me confused on half your post, mostly the "specific" at the end, are you talking about the 'Idea Map' I went to that link and was confused, If you can help me on that, thank you. Maybe giving the support commander more capabilities would help some, maybe giving more powers similar to the main commander, some research abilities at the arms lab maybe? Mostly the 2nd commander, which I dubbed 'Support' for a reason was to support the main commander, mostly by giving him more attention to major matters than the bots, while the support commander can drive the Bots into battle. I'd love to hear a more organized version of what you think the 2nd commander should be able to do and command, unless you disagree with the idea a second commander is requires to have a easier command capability.
Did i read your post right <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Moving through this methodically.
I was trying to quickly condense your ideas posted elsewhere so they are in this thread. I pointed out that your primary argument is to help relieve the pressure on the main comm, especially when it comes to managing autonomous units like a weld bot.
The Idea Map is a way to categorize and log good threads that have merit and a strong discussion. Basically a way to help keep track of major points people keep bringing up. Read the wiki page for a more detailed explanation on how to use it.
I also point out that you should place your ideas on how a support commander operates in this thread so that we don't have to track down all the other threads with your ideas in them.
Lastly, here's my specific idea on how a support/2nd commander should operate.
You pay to build a second chair, perhaps an add-on to the original CC. When the support Commander enters, they gain the abilities to drop items, buildings, research tech, and manage NPC units. Essentially the exact same abilities as the primary commander. However, they do not gain the ability to override things done by the primary commander, such as recycling the primary commander's buildings. Giving waypoints and controlling bots are a bit trickier, and I would suggest that the primary commander solely controls waypoints while the support commander gains sole command of NPC units like the MASC. In the case of no secondary commander, the primary commander retains all abilities, thereby making it so that a support commander is not required. Note also that they still share the same res pool and upgrades cannot by done in parallel. i.e. if the support commander starts to upgrade something, both must wait for it to finish or cancel it and start another research. Support commanders cannot cancel primary commander research.
This provides a cost for the 2nd commander (time, res, extra player) but also benefits (separation of some powers, easier management). This makes it useful, but with a cost, making it a strategic choice with its benefits and weaknesses.
I again iterate that it will be superfluous and only useful is 1) the team size is very large, 2) there are many NPC units both in number and diversity, or 3) the primary comm is noob and needs the help as training wheels.
I unfortunately still support the idea of a more 'unit' commander while the other is the builder. Your ideas could be just as balanced as mine, I'm just afraid of 2nd commander abusing, thinking he IS the main.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->perhaps an add-on to the original CC<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've had a picture of that, looking like a motor-cycle with alittle seat to the side, but I'd make foranother building, unless its like...
You build a Command Chair, now you get to place it, you could make another Main Commander Chair, or if you put it next to a already fully built CC, it will auto attach and you can left click, adding the little side seat.
Some diffence would make it all better, as some people who command would rather command the vehicles, and let the 2nd commander deal with the marines, maybe a few switchs in the Command Hub to give 2nd comm marine and main NPC(Seige, welder, ?Scout?)
And so you all know, I'm about to be run under by Ike, so if power go out, ehh, I'll be gone for some days.