I, too, would be delighted to see it released on Linux (as I write this post from Gentoo x86_64). I think the fact that they're using Lua is a good sign because that part of the engine should be very portable. Of course the OpenGL vs. Direct3D factor is really the most important part....
I think a Linux Dedicated server is a requirement...I can't imagine any release *without* one. Even Valve, which doesn't show any Linux love, releases all their ded's for it.
I am one of the people that buy lots of native Linux games to support the cause, even if I don't play them! There is a misconception that Linux users don't want to pay for anything but there is evidence to the contrary <a href="http://www.koonsolo.com/news/?p=33" target="_blank">http://www.koonsolo.com/news/?p=33</a> and <a href="http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/28235/World-of-Goo-on-Linux-is-a-hit" target="_blank">http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/28235/Wor...-Linux-is-a-hit</a> . NS1 is one of my all time favourite games and I will definitely buy a native Linux copy of NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1729326:date=Sep 28 2009, 06:52 PM:name=borsuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borsuk @ Sep 28 2009, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729326"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many there are I don't know. But if you bothered to check the link I provided in the same post, you'd see "which is in line with the company's previous releases".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For something such as this "in line with a previous release" is not good enough. If you're developing a computer game, as a lower budget company and you want to know the viability of other popular games on an operating system which is an unproven gaming platform you need specifics. You need statistics, you need figures. You can't calculate viability on "enough".
<!--quoteo(post=1731544:date=May 23, 1999, 12:26 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ May 23, 1999, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731544"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For something such as this "in line with a previous release" is not good enough. If you're developing a computer game, as a lower budget company and you want to know the viability of other popular games on an operating system which is an unproven gaming platform you need specifics. You need statistics, you need figures. You can't calculate viability on "enough".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:grey--><span style="color:grey"><!--/coloro-->And thus the 5% figure. What more information could you need from the Quake Live example?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I was going to put up this lengthy comment about OS penetration vs. Game distribution statistics, but in the end I'll just summarize as this: -I got off Windows a while back and have been using Ubuntu for a while now, if necessary, I'll PROBABLY try to find a way to get a good Windows systen running if NECESSARY to run NS2, since I bought it and want to play it. -As noted above, I bought NS2 already (special edition), I'd buy it AGAIN if need be if it meant I'd get an Ubuntu native version (in a timely manner, I love UWE and NS, but I'm not gonna buy NS2 (again) years later simply because there's a Linux version then)
It's nice those who support linux say they would buy a second copy. Although the issue a small team would have for their game on linux, would be about the users who will not buy a windows copy at all and will buy just a linux, when both are made available at the same time.
Hardcore and short term I see linux selling to 30 or 40% of those who say they would by two copies, at a maximum. Long term viability I don't think linux would sell anywhere near as strongly as a Windows copy.
Given the fair price for the game, and even though I have already pre-ordered myself a copy of the SE, I would still purchase a copy for linux if they offered it. Even though If there were a linux version I doubt they would make people buy it if they have already. As far as the Linux gaming community goes, if a game is fairly priced and runs natively you bet a lot of people will buy the game anyway due to the lack of native games, so they shouldn't need a 2nd payment from those of us who have already bought the game.
Also, if a linux client was sold - I would probably end up buying the game for a friend or two of mine who absolutely do not use windows.
You know, the official site says if they release versions for other operating systems, the key will work for all of them. Also, +1 for a fedora rpm/binary.
A Linux version OMG, i need it! I´ve only one PC with Windows and this is my gaming PC and i hate it. I would vary happy, if i´ll find NS2 in my Arch Linux Repo or AUR :-)
<!--quoteo(post=1731948:date=Oct 13 2009, 06:13 AM:name=Vendicator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vendicator @ Oct 13 2009, 06:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731948"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Given the fair price for the game, and even though I have already pre-ordered myself a copy of the SE, I would still purchase a copy for linux if they offered it. Even though If there were a linux version I doubt they would make people buy it if they have already. As far as the Linux gaming community goes, if a game is fairly priced and runs natively you bet a lot of people will buy the game anyway due to the lack of native games, so they shouldn't need a 2nd payment from those of us who have already bought the game.
Also, if a linux client was sold - I would probably end up buying the game for a friend or two of mine who absolutely do not use windows.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, well, if they would make the two versions separate, then I had to buy a second one to play it, but that thought never occurred to me. I don't think that they're THAT greedy.
Microsoft forcing you to buy a licence for every computer and language is the reason I stopped using Windows - I'd hope an indie company would be a little less heinous: it's harder to cope with hate-mail when there's only 4 of you :-P
Just wanted to add my voice to the group of those who wouldn't be here if there wasn't Linux support - respect to the developers :-D
I totally agree, I would love to see a native NS client for Linux. I have been debating getting rid of my windows partition for a long time now, and being able to play native versions of games is a great help towards this cause. Also, I know that my linux friends would be interested in buying this game too if it ran natively on linux.
Linux gamers occupy a fairly pitiful market share, but such statistics aren't everything - people who use Linux tend to be extremely fervent, outspoken and just a little nuts: otherwise they wouldn't be using Linux. The advantage of catering to such people is that they'll make a lot of noise if you do, and when you're a small indie company, "a lot of noise" is something you desperately need. The degree of vehemence is rarely shown on the statistics but it makes a difference behind the scenes.
Linux gamers in particular are exceedingly passionate about, well, games (duh) - while such people are in the minority they have a way of influencing people who aren't quite so hardcore: these are the snobby art critics of the interactive world, they'll eloquently eulogise and throw money at what's good or frenzied scorn and insults at what isn't (average donation amounts to 2D Boy by platform):
I'd have pre-ordered already but unlike, say, Overgrowth, I get the feeling that the Linux port is not really set in stone - there are, for example, no mod tools...
You realise that lovely little graph with windows at the bottom is portraying people from the OS which bought a specific game, not a market share? More so the game has nothing to do with the genre of NS. It's a pretty useless graph to use to justify linux sales in the gaming industry as a whole, it's just a game aimed at linux users, thus more linux buyers.
EDIT: The proprietary tool set has been designed to be multi-platform.
<!--quoteo(post=1735000:date=Oct 31 2009, 01:49 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Oct 31 2009, 01:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You realise that lovely little graph with windows at the bottom is portraying people from the OS which bought a specific game, not a market share? More so the game has nothing to do with the genre of NS. It's a pretty useless graph to use to justify linux sales in the gaming industry as a whole, it's just a game aimed at linux users, thus more linux buyers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
actually not. the first graph shows that there are about 17% people playing on linux. The last graph shows that those 17% are willing to pay much more on average than the ones on windows.
Well as you may notice i am newly registered here. So greeting everyone :).
I would like to clarify statistics regarding the Linux market share as it relates to gamers. Some of this information you will already be well aware of however.
You cant place a statistic on exactly how many people use Linux. People who say that they have these stats are full of themselves because there is no accurate way to collect this information. The most reliable set of stats that can relate to the linux gamer base are the one that come directly from the developers themselves. The 2DBoy stats are great at describing several things. First thing is that linux gamers are typically willing to pay more for the same product if it is on there platform. I wont lie, this is out of desperation. I have seen countless people bash around that they dont need commercial games and that they are perfectly content with nexuiz, WOP, ect... But they were the first ones to buy etqw or pre-order UT3. Even if NS2 was a total failure (which it wont be im sure), linux gamers will buy it just for the sake of having another linux title. The second is that we generate alot of buzz and get the word out. I dont suspect that the advertising budget is very high so forum posters, bloggers and the works are a great help.
A poll for ETQW serves as an example. <!--QuoteBegin-http://community.enemyterritory.com/+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (http://community.enemyterritory.com/)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Which version of ETQW for you? Windows PC 66% Mac OSX 4% Linux 21% Xbox 360 4% PlayStation 3 4% Total votes: 22160<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Xbox and PS3 stats should be disregarded as console users dont usually go on websites like this. But we can have an overview of the linux/mac/windows market for this game. Now wilbefast's first chart shows something similar to this only the mac user base is rather pitiful at best. I feel that external forces shape that mac result.
have a look here. <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzUzNQ" target="_blank">http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news...m&px=NzUzNQ</a> <a href="http://www.koonsolo.com/news/?p=33" target="_blank">http://www.koonsolo.com/news/?p=33</a>
We see windows quickly take a backseat to mac and then linux.
Alot of fuss has been generated over the 5% share that linux users have on quake live. I would like to point out that people currently playing does not reflect people registered. Linux users claim a much higher share of quake live as far as total people who have ever played. The problem is, its quake 3 more-less. We have dozens of deathmatch games in the FOSS community so quakelive just doesnt appeal to us in the least.
Enough with statistics. Every game is going to yield different results. The dev team needs to ask a very specific question as far as hardware is concerned: "will people using intel integrated graphics be able to play our game". Judging by the screenshots I would be incline to give that the negative. That dries up the low end intel mac rings. This also pretty much kills any hope of anyone using a budget desktop or laptop. The odd one will have nvidia ~9200 or ati 3200, 4200. These people dont play modern games so much. I am fairly vocal on phoronix and during my time there i have come to discover that linux users typically have the bleeding edge hardware to go alongside their bleeding edge kernel.
But real talk. Only nvidia cards really work any well with linux. The open source ATI driver is growing very well but its still not good enough to sustain 3D very well. The proprietary driver, is arguably crap. Now i have seen it work very well with ETQW however you are left with a huge "but". Trying to get it working under ati hardware would be a hell of a challenge.
All and all. The linux user base in comparison to the windows version would be significantly lower. That doesn't mean that it is not worth your time to make a linux version. You could yield significant gain by supporting our platform. I wouldnt expect many people to pre-order with anticipation of a linux client and i would encourage them not to as a result of what happened with unreal tournament 3. I wouldn't be surprised if you could pull about 25% of your sales from linux users, and that is a very conservative figure. Its unlikely you will get very many people to post here right now, as games not on our platform are not relative to our interests. However even doing so much as a declaration of a linux port would set the news feeds on fire.
<!--quoteo(post=1735295:date=Nov 1 2009, 05:48 PM:name=L33F3R)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L33F3R @ Nov 1 2009, 05:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735295"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All and all. The linux user base in comparison to the windows version would be significantly lower. That doesn't mean that it is not worth your time to make a linux version. You could yield significant gain by supporting our platform. I wouldnt expect many people to pre-order with anticipation of a linux client and i would encourage them not to as a result of what happened with unreal tournament 3. I wouldn't be surprised if you could pull about 25% of your sales from linux users, and that is a very conservative figure. Its unlikely you will get very many people to post here right now, as games not on our platform are not relative to our interests. However even doing so much as a declaration of a linux port would set the news feeds on fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aye, I preordered it right on the first day of preorder, because I had the impression that they're really willing to port it as soon as they have time for it. Also they mentioned over and over again how they programmed it all with portability in mind. And until UT3 is finally released, there is not real glimpse of an alternative, well, except for that Unigine Showcase game that's probably going to be released some time in 2010. But I think NS2 is the best chance of getting a modable game for Linux in the "close" future.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now it runs on Windows but we also plan on fully supporting OS X, Linux and Xbox 360.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't call it official Linux support, but it's the next best thing.
<!--quoteo(post=1735339:date=Nov 1 2009, 09:07 PM:name=Holodoctor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Holodoctor @ Nov 1 2009, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But I think NS2 is the best chance of getting a modable game for Linux in the "close" future.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, what?!
How much moddable do you want than Open Source? No offence but I can't let that stand: never, in the history of the internet, has somebody been more wrong /:-J
Comments
I think a Linux Dedicated server is a requirement...I can't imagine any release *without* one. Even Valve, which doesn't show any Linux love, releases all their ded's for it.
thumps up for it!
Just for curiosity, does NS2 renders with OpenGL? This not only makes multi-platform easy, but running on top of WINE a piece of cake!
For something such as this "in line with a previous release" is not good enough. If you're developing a computer game, as a lower budget company and you want to know the viability of other popular games on an operating system which is an unproven gaming platform you need specifics. You need statistics, you need figures. You can't calculate viability on "enough".
<!--coloro:grey--><span style="color:grey"><!--/coloro-->And thus the 5% figure. What more information could you need from the Quake Live example?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
~~Sickle~~
-I got off Windows a while back and have been using Ubuntu for a while now, if necessary, I'll PROBABLY try to find a way to get a good Windows systen running if NECESSARY to run NS2, since I bought it and want to play it.
-As noted above, I bought NS2 already (special edition), I'd buy it AGAIN if need be if it meant I'd get an Ubuntu native version (in a timely manner, I love UWE and NS, but I'm not gonna buy NS2 (again) years later simply because there's a Linux version then)
Hardcore and short term I see linux selling to 30 or 40% of those who say they would by two copies, at a maximum. Long term viability I don't think linux would sell anywhere near as strongly as a Windows copy.
But I already preordered the SE on the first day of preorder, so don't let me down.
Also, if a linux client was sold - I would probably end up buying the game for a friend or two of mine who absolutely do not use windows.
I´ve only one PC with Windows and this is my gaming PC and i hate it.
I would vary happy, if i´ll find NS2 in my Arch Linux Repo or AUR :-)
Also, if a linux client was sold - I would probably end up buying the game for a friend or two of mine who absolutely do not use windows.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, well, if they would make the two versions separate, then I had to buy a second one to play it, but that thought never occurred to me. I don't think that they're THAT greedy.
Just wanted to add my voice to the group of those who wouldn't be here if there wasn't Linux support - respect to the developers :-D
<a href="http://2dboy.com/" target="_blank">http://2dboy.com/</a>
<img src="http://2dboy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/dlbyplatform1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://cdn.wolfire.com/blog/dist.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Linux gamers occupy a fairly pitiful market share, but such statistics aren't everything - people who use Linux tend to be extremely fervent, outspoken and just a little nuts: otherwise they wouldn't be using Linux. The advantage of catering to such people is that they'll make a lot of noise if you do, and when you're a small indie company, "a lot of noise" is something you desperately need. The degree of vehemence is rarely shown on the statistics but it makes a difference behind the scenes.
Linux gamers in particular are exceedingly passionate about, well, games (duh) - while such people are in the minority they have a way of influencing people who aren't quite so hardcore: these are the snobby art critics of the interactive world, they'll eloquently eulogise and throw money at what's good or frenzied scorn and insults at what isn't (average donation amounts to 2D Boy by platform):
<img src="http://2dboy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/dailyavg1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'd have pre-ordered already but unlike, say, Overgrowth, I get the feeling that the Linux port is not really set in stone - there are, for example, no mod tools...
William
EDIT: The proprietary tool set has been designed to be multi-platform.
Welcome to the internet :-P
The last graph shows that those 17% are willing to pay much more on average than the ones on windows.
I would like to clarify statistics regarding the Linux market share as it relates to gamers. Some of this information you will already be well aware of however.
You cant place a statistic on exactly how many people use Linux. People who say that they have these stats are full of themselves because there is no accurate way to collect this information. The most reliable set of stats that can relate to the linux gamer base are the one that come directly from the developers themselves. The 2DBoy stats are great at describing several things. First thing is that linux gamers are typically willing to pay more for the same product if it is on there platform. I wont lie, this is out of desperation. I have seen countless people bash around that they dont need commercial games and that they are perfectly content with nexuiz, WOP, ect... But they were the first ones to buy etqw or pre-order UT3. Even if NS2 was a total failure (which it wont be im sure), linux gamers will buy it just for the sake of having another linux title. The second is that we generate alot of buzz and get the word out. I dont suspect that the advertising budget is very high so forum posters, bloggers and the works are a great help.
A poll for ETQW serves as an example.
<!--QuoteBegin-http://community.enemyterritory.com/+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (http://community.enemyterritory.com/)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Which version of ETQW for you?
Windows PC
66%
Mac OSX
4%
Linux
21%
Xbox 360
4%
PlayStation 3
4%
Total votes: 22160<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Xbox and PS3 stats should be disregarded as console users dont usually go on websites like this. But we can have an overview of the linux/mac/windows market for this game. Now wilbefast's first chart shows something similar to this only the mac user base is rather pitiful at best. I feel that external forces shape that mac result.
have a look here. <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzUzNQ" target="_blank">http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news...m&px=NzUzNQ</a>
<a href="http://www.koonsolo.com/news/?p=33" target="_blank">http://www.koonsolo.com/news/?p=33</a>
We see windows quickly take a backseat to mac and then linux.
Alot of fuss has been generated over the 5% share that linux users have on quake live. I would like to point out that people currently playing does not reflect people registered. Linux users claim a much higher share of quake live as far as total people who have ever played. The problem is, its quake 3 more-less. We have dozens of deathmatch games in the FOSS community so quakelive just doesnt appeal to us in the least.
Enough with statistics. Every game is going to yield different results. The dev team needs to ask a very specific question as far as hardware is concerned:
"will people using intel integrated graphics be able to play our game". Judging by the screenshots I would be incline to give that the negative. That dries up the low end intel mac rings. This also pretty much kills any hope of anyone using a budget desktop or laptop. The odd one will have nvidia ~9200 or ati 3200, 4200. These people dont play modern games so much. I am fairly vocal on phoronix and during my time there i have come to discover that linux users typically have the bleeding edge hardware to go alongside their bleeding edge kernel.
But real talk. Only nvidia cards really work any well with linux. The open source ATI driver is growing very well but its still not good enough to sustain 3D very well. The proprietary driver, is arguably crap. Now i have seen it work very well with ETQW however you are left with a huge "but". Trying to get it working under ati hardware would be a hell of a challenge.
All and all. The linux user base in comparison to the windows version would be significantly lower. That doesn't mean that it is not worth your time to make a linux version. You could yield significant gain by supporting our platform. I wouldnt expect many people to pre-order with anticipation of a linux client and i would encourage them not to as a result of what happened with unreal tournament 3. I wouldn't be surprised if you could pull about 25% of your sales from linux users, and that is a very conservative figure. Its unlikely you will get very many people to post here right now, as games not on our platform are not relative to our interests. However even doing so much as a declaration of a linux port would set the news feeds on fire.
Thats my 2 cents. Thanks for reading :).
Aye, I preordered it right on the first day of preorder, because I had the impression that they're really willing to port it as soon as they have time for it.
Also they mentioned over and over again how they programmed it all with portability in mind.
And until UT3 is finally released, there is not real glimpse of an alternative, well, except for that Unigine Showcase game that's probably going to be released some time in 2010.
But I think NS2 is the best chance of getting a modable game for Linux in the "close" future.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/engine" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/engine</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now it runs on Windows but we also plan on fully supporting OS X, Linux and Xbox 360.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't call it official Linux support, but it's the next best thing.
Sorry, what?!
How much moddable do you want than Open Source? No offence but I can't let that stand: never, in the history of the internet, has somebody been more wrong /:-J
You deserve a medal or something XD