<!--quoteo(post=1678177:date=May 9 2008, 02:41 PM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rob @ May 9 2008, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678177"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not so sure that the community was (is) shallow: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29447&st=0#entry371900" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....t=0#entry371900</a>
Not sure how many of those links still work, though. That's not even everything that was produced. I'm not an artist, but I remember a lot of drawing work coming out of the art forums, too. Sorry, I just feel the need to stick up for my old haunts. ^_^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1678184:date=May 9 2008, 10:30 AM:name=ChromeAngel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChromeAngel @ May 9 2008, 10:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I stand corrected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope they keep ready rooms cause I want my ready room to display a screen that has a snapshots and a quick overview of the facilty. In addition I want people who are bored to click various buttons and can gain more information in detail about different parts of the facility. It would include the basic location and purpose of the facility and the individualy hive rooms/rooms of importance and thier significance. I like the idea cause it immerses the player in the setting of the level more. I have my maps back story in my head and layed out already. Unfortunaty I can complete it yet or work on more than concepts till we know how game is played. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />. Hopefully I'll only have to do size adjusting and hallway adjustments vent locations but you never know.
<!--quoteo(post=1678255:date=May 10 2008, 07:26 AM:name=Lt_Hendrickson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lt_Hendrickson @ May 10 2008, 07:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678255"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope they keep ready rooms cause I want my ready room to display a screen that has a snapshots and a quick overview of the facilty. In addition I want people who are bored to click various buttons and can gain more information in detail about different parts of the facility. It would include the basic location and purpose of the facility and the individualy hive rooms/rooms of importance and thier significance. I like the idea cause it immerses the player in the setting of the level more. I have my maps back story in my head and layed out already. Unfortunaty I can complete it yet or work on more than concepts till we know how game is played. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />. Hopefully I'll only have to do size adjusting and hallway adjustments vent locations but you never know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I really like this idea. The readyroom has worked brilliantly in NS save for one flaw, and that's idle players. However, almost all servers I play on have kicked players after not moving for $ seconds, so it is easily combatted.
This idea would help new players understand the map better. You could even have an HLTV-style camera interface where you could connect to the camera feed and watch the game being played (you'd have to lock players in-game from quitting to the RR to get info with a 'tournament mode' SVAR, but it could work). Anyway, maybe this idea should be explored more in I&S (if it hasn't already).
yeah, i think this is a good idea. I <3 the page :] .. from ur page, i´ve got a lot of mapinformation and more, and the same for NS2 would be great <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
hope u will do this, and dont stop bombing the player with information and touts <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> ..
i dont remember, was there a section for noobs? .. if not, i think its a good idea to bring this on the page, because, there will be a lot of new players :]
I'm pondering on if NS2W should use <a href="http://openid.net/" target="_blank">OpenID</a> for user identifiaction. In theory it makes using multiple sites easier, but in practice it seems to make signing up in the first place a knotty mess. Do you guys use OpenID on other sites? (eg Yahoo)
After this re-design NS2W is shaping up to be quite a different beast to the original. I don't want to loose the best bits in the process of trying to make it better. What did you think the best bits of NS World were?
If it's what I think it is (registering with a third-party to have a single ID for lots of different sites, such as NS2World and ... well all the other sites listed at OpenID look like sites I'd never visit) - I think it's a bit of a put-off.
What exactly are the benefits of using OpenID? When you say multiple sites, you mean multiple NS2 fansites (that you would convince to use the same system?).
Would it not be possible to build in an optional field in the user profile to link to your UWE user account so people can see who you are on the official forums?
---
The best things about NS2 were: - Map listings (a way to list separate versions under the same name would be great) - Map comments system - Map ratings system (although a bit flawed as I've already stated) - User self-appointed 'helper' information - Map reviews (this could be transferred to user-generated content, see below for some ideas on making this work)
<b>User-appointed 'helper' status</b> I liked the bits in your profile where you could write about which areas you would be happy helping out in, although this never seemed to work really because it wasn't uniform enough. I would suggest perhaps making these tags more uniform, i.e. instead of describing which areas you can help out in, allow users to choose tags that reflect their knowledge bases (see Mod Database forum user profiles too see what I mean).
Now, the other problem with this system is that lots of people were willing to help, but I think it was perhaps a bit daunting fora mapper to go through all the profiles and find the right information. I'd suggest making all of these 'helper tags' actually relate to groups. So if I say I am willing to help out with 'lighting' or with 'basic' mapping advice, then I get added to the 'lighting' and 'basic' knowledge groups. The next step is that if you want advice on 'lighting' you write up your question to that group as a new topic in the 'Lighting questions' forum, and all of the 'lighting' group get email notification of the query and a link to the thread.
Additionally, you don't have to be an expert to benefit from this system. Someone looking to learn more about lighting their maps in an NS style could benefit from having notifications to these questions and pick up tips and advice in the process.
Finally this works fine because it's an opt-in, opt-out scheme. Once you feel you don't have time to contribute lighting advice, you opt out of the 'lighting' group.
---
<b>Map reviews</b> Now, one of the reasons map reviews never took off on NSW is because of a lack of volunteer writers. By allowing anyone to write a review, the lack of reviews problem is solved. However, this creates an issue with quality control: how do you stop people writing crappy reviews for maps? The answer is: you don't. The solution again is to look to the users to rate these reviews so that the ones that are generally accepted as the most accurate, well-written and informative are displayed more prominently on the site. E.g. a map is released and 2 users write a review, one is a fairly thorough and well-argued review, the other is 4 LINES OF OMG THIS MAP IS SO KEWL!!!11. The review that users appreciate the most will be voted up and the one they appreciate least will be voted down, to the point where it becomes buried (still visible on the map profile page, but labelled as 'buried user review').
Those are some of my ideas for what could be improved about NSW.
The benefits of using OpenID is that you have only one login to remember across many websites. That's it. It's not just NS2 websites, but a single login that can be used at any one of the hundreds (thousands?) of sites that use the OpenID scheme. If you follow the OpenID link in my previous post they have a directory of sites using the scheme, yahoo being the most prominent that I know of. It's kind of like a Google apps or .NET passport, but not limited to just one company. The downside is you <i>have</i> to go to a big corporate identity provider (like yahoo) to get one of these IDs, which they can then (theoretically) use to track what websites you log into. Scary big brother stuff, which is why i'm not jumping at it to sign up and why i'm trying top find out what proportion of NS gamers have an OpenID first.
Before looking at OpenID, I did ask UWE if I would be possible to verify against the forum logins here, but I haven't heard back about that.
I have planned to allow NS2W users to add a link to their user profile here on the official forums, as well as their steam community page. I'm kind of hoping to be able to nab a link to their avatar from one of those pages <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I'd quite forgotten about the voluntary Help in NSW, I shall have a think about how it would integrate with the NS2W design. NS2W design has no forum of it's own, but some RSS feeds for news... perhaps another feed for each help topic (that user can subscribe/post to)?
I have been persuaded to drop the voting part of the NSW comments and allow any user (except the map creator) to post Reviews instead. In the current NS2W design any user submitted content can be reported as "Abusive" by any other user, which removes it from public view and flags it for attention by moderators (eg me).
RSS feeds could work if you were automatically signed up to feeds. Where would these feeds be displayed though, on a user welcome page or dedicated area of the frontpage (as part of the site)? Or would users have to manually set their browser or some other application to check the RSS feeds remotely and then choose to visit the site if a particular newsfeed caught their attention?
Personally I think integrated would be better, but I don't know if that would be heavy on bandwidth or not?
I've never heard of OpenID so maybe you could post a poll? (if you ask permission you might be able to post it in this forum, or if not in Off-Topic)
---
I'm not entirely sure about dropping scores in favour of reviews. Not everyone has the time or wants to spend the time either writing a comment/review or reading the comments/reviews to get a balanced overall view. Perhaps some sort of combination where when you give a score you have to give a comment with it. If you give a very low score with very unfair reasoning for it, others can flag/vote down your comment until it gets buried and the score you gave would be factored out of the equation (so the map score average would no longer be affected).
Even if you didn't want to do the whole 'buried comments' thing, the voting system would at least allow people to see why the map was getting high or low scores.
If you had map pages like Wiki entries you could just lock the format for each map page and allow users to edit the text within the Review field (and discuss possible improvements to the user review in the 'dicussion' tab). I don't know if you're considering Wiki or not...
I'm envisioning a "support" link in the main menu that takes visitors to a page listing the support topics, with descriptions and links to each topic's feed and history. If a visitor doesn't have an RSS client they can just come in and check the history page (which is where users can also post replies to the topic). Almost like a single tier forum with fixed topics. I think that would be most doable without too much crossover with the forum here.
Some people don't want to vote when they're commenting and some people don't want to comment when they're voting, tying the two together just muddies things up. A basic thread of comments for each map and a structured review format sort of covers both needs. I can see how comments on the servers and reviews might be handy too, but adds to the coding complexity.
I'm thinking a wiki style for any reference articles (mapping/scripting/hosting/playing guides), but author owned maps, servers and reviews (moderated via easy to use abuse reporting, but only editable by the owner and administrator [me] ).
<!--quoteo(post=1680541:date=Jun 8 2008, 05:23 PM:name=ChromeAngel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChromeAngel @ Jun 8 2008, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1680541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some people don't want to vote when they're commenting and some people don't want to comment when they're voting, tying the two together just muddies things up. A basic thread of comments for each map and a structured review format sort of covers both needs. I can see how comments on the servers and reviews might be handy too, but adds to the coding complexity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->If people have the option to comment when voting, I'd wager most would, which would at least help get a idea for why a map is receiving negative/positive scores. /£0.02
Mm, I'd have to agree with Crispy in tying votes to comments, but I don't agree that most would if commenting were simply an option. How about if it were the opposite?, in order to vote you have to comment (although you might likely end up with a bunch of simple "good map" or "bad map" comments tied with votes), but you don't have to vote if you only want to comment.
Well I suppose the comments thing only really works if you have a vote negation system, where you comment on why you voted how you did, and then people can vote up or vote down your comment/vote. If your vote reaches minus numbers, both the comment and the vote itself get buried and removed from the overall map vote average.
Comments
Not sure how many of those links still work, though. That's not even everything that was produced. I'm not an artist, but I remember a lot of drawing work coming out of the art forums, too. Sorry, I just feel the need to stick up for my old haunts. ^_^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I stand corrected.
I hope they keep ready rooms cause I want my ready room to display a screen that has a snapshots and a quick overview of the facilty. In addition I want people who are bored to click various buttons and can gain more information in detail about different parts of the facility. It would include the basic location and purpose of the facility and the individualy hive rooms/rooms of importance and thier significance. I like the idea cause it immerses the player in the setting of the level more. I have my maps back story in my head and layed out already. Unfortunaty I can complete it yet or work on more than concepts till we know how game is played. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />. Hopefully I'll only have to do size adjusting and hallway adjustments vent locations but you never know.
This idea would help new players understand the map better. You could even have an HLTV-style camera interface where you could connect to the camera feed and watch the game being played (you'd have to lock players in-game from quitting to the RR to get info with a 'tournament mode' SVAR, but it could work). Anyway, maybe this idea should be explored more in I&S (if it hasn't already).
yeah, i think this is a good idea. I <3 the page :] .. from ur page, i´ve got a lot of mapinformation and more, and the same for NS2 would be great <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
hope u will do this, and dont stop bombing the player with information and touts <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> ..
i dont remember, was there a section for noobs? .. if not, i think its a good idea to bring this on the page, because, there will be a lot of new players :]
grtz
After this re-design NS2W is shaping up to be quite a different beast to the original. I don't want to loose the best bits in the process of trying to make it better. What did you think the best bits of NS World were?
What exactly are the benefits of using OpenID? When you say multiple sites, you mean multiple NS2 fansites (that you would convince to use the same system?).
Would it not be possible to build in an optional field in the user profile to link to your UWE user account so people can see who you are on the official forums?
---
The best things about NS2 were:
- Map listings (a way to list separate versions under the same name would be great)
- Map comments system
- Map ratings system (although a bit flawed as I've already stated)
- User self-appointed 'helper' information
- Map reviews (this could be transferred to user-generated content, see below for some ideas on making this work)
<b>User-appointed 'helper' status</b>
I liked the bits in your profile where you could write about which areas you would be happy helping out in, although this never seemed to work really because it wasn't uniform enough. I would suggest perhaps making these tags more uniform, i.e. instead of describing which areas you can help out in, allow users to choose tags that reflect their knowledge bases (see Mod Database forum user profiles too see what I mean).
Now, the other problem with this system is that lots of people were willing to help, but I think it was perhaps a bit daunting fora mapper to go through all the profiles and find the right information. I'd suggest making all of these 'helper tags' actually relate to groups. So if I say I am willing to help out with 'lighting' or with 'basic' mapping advice, then I get added to the 'lighting' and 'basic' knowledge groups. The next step is that if you want advice on 'lighting' you write up your question to that group as a new topic in the 'Lighting questions' forum, and all of the 'lighting' group get email notification of the query and a link to the thread.
Additionally, you don't have to be an expert to benefit from this system. Someone looking to learn more about lighting their maps in an NS style could benefit from having notifications to these questions and pick up tips and advice in the process.
Finally this works fine because it's an opt-in, opt-out scheme. Once you feel you don't have time to contribute lighting advice, you opt out of the 'lighting' group.
---
<b>Map reviews</b>
Now, one of the reasons map reviews never took off on NSW is because of a lack of volunteer writers. By allowing anyone to write a review, the lack of reviews problem is solved. However, this creates an issue with quality control: how do you stop people writing crappy reviews for maps? The answer is: you don't. The solution again is to look to the users to rate these reviews so that the ones that are generally accepted as the most accurate, well-written and informative are displayed more prominently on the site. E.g. a map is released and 2 users write a review, one is a fairly thorough and well-argued review, the other is 4 LINES OF OMG THIS MAP IS SO KEWL!!!11. The review that users appreciate the most will be voted up and the one they appreciate least will be voted down, to the point where it becomes buried (still visible on the map profile page, but labelled as 'buried user review').
Those are some of my ideas for what could be improved about NSW.
Before looking at OpenID, I did ask UWE if I would be possible to verify against the forum logins here, but I haven't heard back about that.
I have planned to allow NS2W users to add a link to their user profile here on the official forums, as well as their steam community page. I'm kind of hoping to be able to nab a link to their avatar from one of those pages <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I'd quite forgotten about the voluntary Help in NSW, I shall have a think about how it would integrate with the NS2W design. NS2W design has no forum of it's own, but some RSS feeds for news... perhaps another feed for each help topic (that user can subscribe/post to)?
I have been persuaded to drop the voting part of the NSW comments and allow any user (except the map creator) to post Reviews instead. In the current NS2W design any user submitted content can be reported as "Abusive" by any other user, which removes it from public view and flags it for attention by moderators (eg me).
Personally I think integrated would be better, but I don't know if that would be heavy on bandwidth or not?
I've never heard of OpenID so maybe you could post a poll? (if you ask permission you might be able to post it in this forum, or if not in Off-Topic)
---
I'm not entirely sure about dropping scores in favour of reviews. Not everyone has the time or wants to spend the time either writing a comment/review or reading the comments/reviews to get a balanced overall view. Perhaps some sort of combination where when you give a score you have to give a comment with it. If you give a very low score with very unfair reasoning for it, others can flag/vote down your comment until it gets buried and the score you gave would be factored out of the equation (so the map score average would no longer be affected).
Even if you didn't want to do the whole 'buried comments' thing, the voting system would at least allow people to see why the map was getting high or low scores.
If you had map pages like Wiki entries you could just lock the format for each map page and allow users to edit the text within the Review field (and discuss possible improvements to the user review in the 'dicussion' tab). I don't know if you're considering Wiki or not...
Some people don't want to vote when they're commenting and some people don't want to comment when they're voting, tying the two together just muddies things up. A basic thread of comments for each map and a structured review format sort of covers both needs. I can see how comments on the servers and reviews might be handy too, but adds to the coding complexity.
I'm thinking a wiki style for any reference articles (mapping/scripting/hosting/playing guides), but author owned maps, servers and reviews (moderated via easy to use abuse reporting, but only editable by the owner and administrator [me] ).