Are There Any Numbers On

lolfighter

<div class="IPBDescription">drugs?</div>More specifically, drug addiction and OD fatalities compared to users of said drug. For instance, harder drugs like heroin or cocaine have a much higher rate of addiction/fatality per 1000 users than softer drugs like marijuana or alcohol. Or rather, so I believe. I'm wondering whether there are any statistics that confirm/debunk my postulate.

I'm asking because I'm too lazy to go looking. You probably are too, so whatever. With any luck, somebody with time and altruism to spare will come along and throw us some links. Ain't that something?

Forum squad, fan out!

Thansal

it probably varies from area to area (based on society and govn't influence). Do you care where the data comes from? For instance, I would probably have a hell of a time finding a study focused in Germany (language and all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />), but I might be able to find somethign from the US.

lolfighter

You know, that's actually a good point, particularly concerning alcohol which has a much broader cultural background than other drugs. I'd like data for various european countries if any one has them (the UK, Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands would interest me most), but U.S. data will do in a pinch.

Also, I'm interested in drug users compared to abusers. A user, in my eyes, is someone who has a glass of wine with a meal or snorts a line of cocaine on the rare occasion. An abuser is someone who's addicted and needs their half bottle of vodka or daily snort just to keep going.

(Incidentally, IS it a daily snort? How often does your average addict "do a line" to stay off withdrawal symptoms?)

Edit: Cursory investigation leads me to believe that it is difficult to find an "average" addict, so I guess examples (this person does a line of that amount so often, that person does a line of that amount twice a day, etc.) would be best.)

Thansal

was going to say, you will have a hard time coming up with figures of 'this person is addicted, this person isn't and this is what an average addiction is like'.

I mean, it is rather easy to say if some one is an addict or not (do they have a tolerance/dependency? If so then they are an addict).

I also would comment that I would expect to see variances in other drugs based on location as well. Where heroine is the weekend party drug for the rich in one place, it could be the day to day thing that gets people through life some where else.

either way, poking around for studies, not having much luck atm <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

lolfighter

Keep going, I'm counting on you to do the work I'm too lazy to do myself. And I'm not even polite about it.

X_Stickman

You know, the effects of a heroin overdose are lethal...<i>in the short term</i>, but there's been absolutely <b>no</b> research into the long term effects.

locallyunscene

I'll take a look at <u>Everything You Know is Wrong</u> when I get home. I'm pretty sure that had U.S. stats in there.

A forewarning: the essays in the book are generally heavily biased one way or another. So while the statistics may be accurate they probably fall into the "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics" category.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1674938:date=Apr 3 2008, 10:08 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Apr 3 2008, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, the effects of a heroin overdose are lethal...<i>in the short term</i>, but there's been absolutely <b>no</b> research into the long term effects.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The lack of zombies wandering around craving smack leads me to believe that the effects in the long term are just as deadly as in the short term.


There is actually an awesome game idea in the All Flesh Must Be Eaten book called Enter The Zombie that involves a new drug (based off of H) that is 10x as addictive and 10x as deadly. Only problem is that most people that OD on it come back as zombies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> (that now crave it)

Jimmeh

On a related note, anyone got any information concerning Cake? You know, that new drug from Prague.

Monkfish

<!--quoteo(post=1674944:date=Apr 3 2008, 03:21 PM:name=Jimmeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jimmeh @ Apr 3 2008, 03:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674944"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On a related note, anyone got any information concerning Cake? You know, that new drug from Prague.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I heard one young kiddie cried all the water out of his body..imagine how his mother felt <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> it's a ######ing disgrace.

X_Stickman

People say alcohol is a drug. It's not a drug, it's a drink.

Xyth

<!--quoteo(post=1674947:date=Apr 3 2008, 11:35 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Apr 3 2008, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People say alcohol is a drug. It's not a drug, it's a drink.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alcohol is most certainly a drug.

Anyway, the closest thing I have found is the graph <a href="http://health.howstuffworks.com/drug-ranking.htm" target="_blank">Here</a>.
Ahh the joys of drug hypocritical drug control. Sadly the list doesn't include one of my favorite recreational substances: Nitrous! Wooo!

LET'S GET CHEESED GUYS!

Insane

<!--quoteo(post=1674944:date=Apr 3 2008, 04:21 PM:name=Jimmeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jimmeh @ Apr 3 2008, 04:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674944"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On a related note, anyone got any information concerning Cake? You know, that new drug from Prague.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I've been told that it's metabolically bisturbile.

Faskalia

<!--quoteo(post=1674947:date=Apr 3 2008, 05:35 PM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Apr 3 2008, 05:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People say alcohol is a drug. It's not a drug, it's a drink.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Whoo, slow down.

A drug is any substance, which is not required to self-maintain a living being, that alters body and particularly brain functions.

This means that the following things are drugs:

any pharmaceutical product
coffee, tee, smokes, chocolate etc etc...

But all mambo jumbo aside: A drug is a drug, when 51% of a given population say it is a drug, making alocohl more or less not a drug.

Thansal

people are really missing the point here.

Stick isn't having a discussion, he is trolling.

So, more questions for lolf:
Are you only talking about addictive substances here (aka, exclude pot/acid/etc)?

Jimmeh

He's not trolling, he's just telling it like it is.

Next you'll be arguing with him for discriminating against people with bad AIDS.

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1674944:date=Apr 3 2008, 11:21 AM:name=Jimmeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jimmeh @ Apr 3 2008, 11:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674944"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On a related note, anyone got any information concerning Cake? You know, that new drug from Prague.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like a lie to me.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1674966:date=Apr 3 2008, 01:15 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Apr 3 2008, 01:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674966"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds like a lie to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
or a reference to some damn show more then 1/2 the forum has probably has never seen.

lolfighter

<!--quoteo(post=1674964:date=Apr 3 2008, 07:08 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Apr 3 2008, 07:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->people are really missing the point here.

Stick isn't having a discussion, he is trolling.

So, more questions for lolf:
Are you only talking about addictive substances here (aka, exclude pot/acid/etc)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm talking about both physically and psychologically addictive substances, so yes, those are included.

Xyth

<!--quoteo(post=1674970:date=Apr 3 2008, 03:59 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Apr 3 2008, 03:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674970"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm talking about both physically and psychologically addictive substances, so yes, those are included.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ehh, classifying anything as "psychologically" addictive is pretty stupid... anything that is enjoyable is psychologically addictive. Besides the point though.

You are going to have a hard time finding anything "conclusive" in the way of studies regarding drug use, because of the highly polar aspect of the drug "issue" there is going to be tremendous bias either way.

X_Stickman

<!--quoteo(post=1674966:date=Apr 3 2008, 06:15 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Apr 3 2008, 06:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674966"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds like a lie to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


You are officially several times smarter than Bernard Manning.

lolfighter

<!--quoteo(post=1674981:date=Apr 3 2008, 11:09 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Apr 3 2008, 11:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674981"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ehh, classifying anything as "psychologically" addictive is pretty stupid... anything that is enjoyable is psychologically addictive. Besides the point though.

You are going to have a hard time finding anything "conclusive" in the way of studies regarding drug use, because of the highly polar aspect of the drug "issue" there is going to be tremendous bias either way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think NOT classifying anything as psychologically addictive is pretty stupid. The potent rush of a cocaine dose combined with the strong down afterwards provides a powerful incentive to take a new dose, an effect that sets in earlier than the physical addiction. Anything that is enjoyable is psychologically addictive, sure. But anything is toxic in large enough quantities, yet that doesn't mean classifying anything as toxic is stupid.

Why would the phrase "I can quit anytime I want" be so universally mocked if not for psychological addiction?

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1675016:date=Apr 4 2008, 03:57 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Apr 4 2008, 03:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675016"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would the phrase "I can quit anytime I want" be so universally mocked if not for psychological addiction?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I usually hear it mocked the other way. As in
"You're eating an awful lot of icecream"
"I can quit any time I want"
"Haha, I'm silly for implying you're addicted to icecream"

lolfighter

That's usually an ironic "omg you noticed that I'm an addict," at least in the cases I know. Thus my case stands.

Drfuzzy

weed should be legal before alcohol by far, weed at least dont make you violent

lolfighter

"And now for something completely different" eh? But sure, let's open the "my drug is better than your drug" can-o-worms, we're not really getting much further with the thread anyway.

Xyth

Oh well, we haven't had a drug thread in a long time.

Lets talk about Salvia, who here has tried it? Crazy stuff m i rite?

Firewater

<!--quoteo(post=1674905:date=Apr 3 2008, 07:41 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Apr 3 2008, 07:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674905"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More specifically, drug addiction and OD fatalities compared to users of said drug. For instance, harder drugs like heroin or cocaine have a much higher rate of addiction/fatality per 1000 users than softer drugs like marijuana or alcohol. Or rather, so I believe. I'm wondering whether there are any statistics that confirm/debunk my postulate.

I'm asking because I'm too lazy to go looking. You probably are too, so whatever. With any luck, somebody with time and altruism to spare will come along and throw us some links. Ain't that something?

Forum squad, fan out!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Actually the addiction rate of Cocaine isn't very high compared to heroin or methamphetamine. Crack on the other hand is very addictive.

lolfighter

I don't know about the addictiveness of cocaine relative to other drugs (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_dependence" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a> has something to say about it, but that place is full of lies), but I'm told that cocaine is horribly addictive. Since I don't have any <i>reputable</i> sources to back me up, however, I am wide open to counter-attack. Have at me!