ns_eva
slayer20
Killed a man once. Join Date: 2007-12-13 Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Killed a man once. Join Date: 2007-12-13 Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Need some ideas!</div>Right so, along time ago I made the map called ns_dreamviews...it was my first Natural Selection map and it wasn't very good. It was a seige map...
But now I'm wanting to make a normal ns_ map. But I can't think of how I want my map to be layed out. I've already got my sky textured made and thats about it...
If someone would be so kind as to making an overview of a map that I could work with then that would be great! I would like to see a outside sort of area. The only thing I can think of for it right now is a plant/forest area. This is a quick picture of what I came up with for that one area...it's nothing great.
<a href="http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plantforestgb2.png" target="_blank">http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plantforestgb2.png</a>
Will someone make me a layout for a map?
If someone does make me a layout, your name will be credited in the map, and please put little dots on the map telling what it is (resource tower, weld point, etc). Please help me!
But now I'm wanting to make a normal ns_ map. But I can't think of how I want my map to be layed out. I've already got my sky textured made and thats about it...
If someone would be so kind as to making an overview of a map that I could work with then that would be great! I would like to see a outside sort of area. The only thing I can think of for it right now is a plant/forest area. This is a quick picture of what I came up with for that one area...it's nothing great.
<a href="http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plantforestgb2.png" target="_blank">http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plantforestgb2.png</a>
Will someone make me a layout for a map?
If someone does make me a layout, your name will be credited in the map, and please put little dots on the map telling what it is (resource tower, weld point, etc). Please help me!
Comments
Also, check these out for information about layouts:
<a href="http://perso.enst.fr/~cguerin/NSmap/index.html" target="_blank">http://perso.enst.fr/~cguerin/NSmap/index.html</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/Mapping_Guidelines.html#Layout" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/Map...nes.html#Layout</a>
I do have a picture of what I want but it seems kinda small...it would probably be a better co_ map then it would a ns_ map.
But I'll load up my unfinished layout sometime later.
I know how I want to make one hive area and the marine start. But the other 2 hives and pretty much everything else I'm unsure of...
1. Get a theme going (where what why ergo backstory), Barathrum said it first <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
2. Keep the rules of design in check that Crispy talked about
3. Keep an eye on potential or unintential siege areas
4. Think about what kind of ventilation system you want
And much more, but these are kind of the basic.
I personally mapped like this for hl1:
Get a theme going with a good backstory and then design map areas from that idea. These could be hive/marine starting areas, central traffic areas or just general a cool looking room which will fit the story and texture+light them to near final. This can however bite you in the @ss, as you can run out of engine resources if you don't understand the engine and what it can or can not do (mainly a problem for larger maps though)
Once you have the rooms all setup, you can start putting them together with vents and corridors. This way of working is totally personal and some mappers swear by just mapping out a simple layout and then texture+light them. But for me, working like this, it gives me something to look at and get inspired by for other areas. It also helps me to get a constant lighting and theme going. Mind you that for my maps the area locations where predetermined due to the ship layout (logical ship design). However this does not stop you from playing around with corridors and "in between" areas.
Hope my ranting helps <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Haha, aye, gotta be quick, the forum is overflowing with life nowadays <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Nice additions, those are things that all mappers (especially for HL1) should keep in the back of their head at all times. As for your workflow, I use about the same myself.
<b>slayer20:</b>
That sounds cool. If I were you, I would start brainstorming what areas could naturally be part of such a place. What kind of research are they doing in the lab? I would also think about what kind of lighting I would want, and what texture look. Remember that consistency is often a key, and try to get a balance of colors. Layout-wise, it's very good to make a drawing of roughly how you want the map-structure to look. Think about making it balanced for all three hive-positions both versus eachother and versus the marine spawn. Give them roughly equal distance to res nodes etc.
<img src="http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3610/nseva0000od1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also, this texture is bright when it's not supposed to be. How do I change this? It's render mode is set to texture.
<img src="http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8994/nseva0001gz7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Stuff I notice that could improve is:
Lighting:
It's pretty bright. Instead of having the whole room in the same lighting strength and color, I think you should try to bring the brightness down and place some lights with smaller strength at some places. Maybe play around and make one light in a different color? Though it's important to not mix up too many colors. Usually, I find placing 2 non-white lights and 1 white light in an area as the most. Mixing up more colors than that often make it look like a funpark.
Texturing:
Try make the textures tile better. Especially around the curved left part. Maybe alter the architecture a bit in the corners to blend the two walls together better. On the lower right floor of the screen, try fiting the texture better to the wall. Also, try blending the textures around the windows better.
Architecture:
As I said, the far left wall looks really good in my opinion. Where I can really see an improvement, is in the roof. It's pretty flat, you should try to make it more detailed. Support-beams maybe? Also, maybe make the windows in a more interesting shape?
About the texture in the lower screen, did you try making it texture mode solid with texture amount 255?
Texturing is something I have problems with. I have issues makeing my textures "flow" with everything else. I might a trim on the wall near the floor so the floor and wall look better together.
Here's my plan for the architechture:
<img src="http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8100/mapplanka3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And those are benches. Mainly used for sitting and starting outside at the planet. I might re-do alot of the ready room so it looks more like a relaxtion place.
And it would be really nice if you could help me along the way with this map. Does anyone know where some tree and plant models are at? I'm going to make an outside area inside the ship where one of the hive locations are at.
My other idea for a hive area is a reasearch lab where the Kharaa specimens will be located. This will have to be a fairly big area and right now I don't have any idea on how it's going to look.
The marine start is going to be at the head of the ship. I do have an idea on how this is going to work. I just need to draw it out first.
Edit: Also, my sig shows off the sky texture that I'm using.
Edit2: Barathrum, do you think I could add you to friends? I mean that is if you will help me out with most of this.
Edit3: And does anyone know where I can get a terrain generator? I had one along time ago but I don't have it anymore. I need one to make the outside area for the hive.
Edit4: UPDATE!!!
<img src="http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6624/nseva0003np8.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
How's that so far?
And this wall needs worked on it seems...any ideas on how to improve it?
<img src="http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4791/nseva0004mj9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
But basically, mapping is no short-term experience. You will ALWAYS be learning as a mapper, and you have to accept it and also accept that this is a new part of you. Once you become a mapper, you will see the real world from a different perspective. Always appreciate this new perspective, even love it, and you will excel.
'A wise man sees not the same tree that a fool sees' -im too lazy to look up the source
Keep your eyes open and you will find fantastic inspiration. Even driving past random buildings I have noticed great uses of lighting, created by some random architect, that can be instantly be used in level design.
Perhaps the best place to find inspiration as a mapper is other maps. NS has I believe 17 classic maps (its a surprising number once you count em). And NS maps are BIG. Run around them by yourself, check out how the mappers made their doors, made their cover, used Line of Sight (LoS), placed RTs, created vents (including marine accessibility, linkage, inter-linkage, detail, etc), use of SKY (it can add a lot to the map if used well), etc.
Think about things that regular players would not. Ramps? Regular players don't look at ramps, they look for the skulks possibly running up the ramps. But if a ramp is built too steep, the player will feel awkward. If the ramp has a discontinuous texture, the player will think it looks weird (i.e. unrealistic). Personally, I found that the perfect angle for ramps is 2:1 height:length. But thats all personal taste, which I have developed over the past three years, and could still change.
What I'm saying is that you can't teach a painter how to paint his own style. Everyone has their own style, and they have to develop it themselves. I can point you in the right direction, as I have tried to do in the previous paragraphs. But you have to have the mapper's experience to be able to create something beautiful out of the Void that is a New Map.
Enjoy.
-stix
And I love to learn new things in hammer.
Anyway, here's a screenshot on my progression...the readyroom is too small I think. It has 31 info_player_starts which are only spaced at about 50 units each. The mapping guidelines say they should be spaced 128 units apart.
<img src="http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4403/nseva0006rw2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
One thing you could do without having to redesign the existing bit is to cut out those 'crate' patterns underneath the lights and turn them into corridors that link to another area (like the readyroom in ns_ayumi). It doesn't really matter how far you start from the Alien/Marine doors, since you can always press F1 or F2 for an instant join.
What I would say, is that the Aliens/Marines/Spectate/Random doors should all lead off from the same room. You shouldn't have to go hunting to find the door you want, and Random should always be as easy an option to take as Marines or Aliens, to promote players to use it as the quickest option to join the game if they spawn next to it.
Consider making a second room to the left, so its kindof like a T, with the current screenshot being the top bar of the T. It would give you a lot more room with plenty of separate sides to add in bigger entrances to each piece of a proper RR [marine alien spec random].
Yeah, you can add me to friends. Though, as StixNStonz so nicely put it, the creation and learning of level design is mostly up to oneself. I can gladly give you comments on stuff here, but I have also my own map and my own flaws to work on so I don't have much time left <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
About that terrain-generator: I would try creating it from scratch inside Hammer instead. It isn't that difficult really. The most usual (and best performance/look-wise in my opinion) is to make curvy ground from triangles using vertex manipulation. Cut out equally-sized triangles in the floor and use the vertex manipulation tool to make their corners of different height. Maybe start out with triangles that are 64 units big or so.
About the improvable wall: maybe make those corridor other-than square-shaped? Maybe make them some permanently opened dooropenings?
A key thing I have learned and try to keep to when level designing is to not start out by making the square walls of an area. That severely limits the creativity since you have already made the limits of the room and can't create as interesting variations. I start with making the floor, then the details, and then the roof or the walls. Your creativity should limit the walls, the walls shouldn't limit your creativity.
<img src="http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/912/nseva0007ph8.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6397/nseva0008le6.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1503/nseva0009ak8.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The onos fits through everything...the only thing that it needs to crouch in is at the stairs going down to the holo fade...thats no big deal though.
Texturing: Try to find a more precise texturing theme to settle with, and don't mix up too much. Though this could be adjustable by changing the lighting also.
Lighting: The first two screenshots have pretty grey lighting. I would try making the contrasts bigger. Though as I said before, be careful with not mixing up too much. Having green, blue and red lighting in the same room easily makes it look like a disco. It's pretty close on the lowest picture to that feeling, in my opinion, since you have the green team join sign, the blue lighting in the roof and the red lighting on the walls. Though it looks much better than the first 2 screenshots. I usually try having two different colors, that are eachothers' opposites. You can use this picture to help <a href="http://www.uni-mannheim.de/fakul/psycho/irtel/colsys/Hering.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.uni-mannheim.de/fakul/psycho/ir...lsys/Hering.jpg</a> . For example, the middle red and the middle green would work together.
Architecture: The lowest screenshot looks better now. I think that lava spot looks a bit weird though - what is it? Molten electronics beneath the floor? It looks a bit misplaced.
I think you should make the roof above the holo fade higher, to ease up gameplay. That whole area in the middle looks a bit small, but it's hard to judge just from screens.
Also, the roof in the upper screenshot looks a bit flat. Maybe add a detail or two there too.
Two seconds after you spawn in the Ready Room a voice goes off saying "*Beep* Warning, hazardeous chemical detected, evacuate area immediantly *Beep*" and retriggers after 25 seconds.
The lava stuff doesn't actually do anything...it's just there for show, but it does look misplaced without the warning signal going off.
I'll change the lighting in the ready room so it doesn't look so dull.
I'm trying to make the area seem sorta like a lounge.
Edit: Also, once I declare the readyroom done, do you think I could send you a beta map of the readyroom so you can see it for yourself?
Another thing is that maybe you shouldn't put too much work into the ready room. I mean, if this is your first real NS map, maybe it's better to work on it a bit and then move on to another area. Having too high expectations can make you stuck and it could take forever finishing the map (like in my case <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> ). And then just end up remaking it all since you improved so much in skill from the first wall to the last <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> This, though, looks very good for you having only done one map before. I have like 20 trash maps that are half-started and most of them don't look even half as good as this <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> But you should feel for yourself how you want to proceed with it.
Yeah, I can have a look at it for you. Can you upload it somewhere? Or shall I send you my e-mail in a private message?
I think of all the shots you've posted thus far this one (<a href="http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6624/nseva0003np8.jpg" target="_blank">image</a>) has the most potential. I say potential because, as is probably the reason you decided to go a different route, it's not the best looking of what you've posted, but I think it could be. All you really need to do is clean things up a little bit.
I like the green, no problem with that, goes with the chemical theme. I think the reason you're dropping it is because the lighting is flat. Those lights up top are blue, but producing either white or no light. Make them give off blue light, and give the white lights on the side a very low intensity. You don't want to wash things out. The fluorescent lights on the sides aren't producing any light, but imo they should. it would break up the green. Make sure they're producing a slightly yellowish light as befitting their appearance.
I also don't think it's really a bad thing you're getting the RR right. The RR should be an insight into the design style of your map, so the closer you get this to how you want it the better.
Yeah I need to change the source of the chemical stuff...right now it's just a small pipe. I'm probably going to make barrels and move them out of that area of the ready room.
@Belgarion
I didn't like the way that lighting looked so thats why I changed it. I'll probably use that kind of green in another place. Wait, that gives me an idea for my last hive room! A nuclear reaction generator! I mean, I could add some pipes with green acid inside them and stuff and make the area look infected and other stuff that I don't feel like writing down right now.
I'm going to make a few changes to the ready room and then I'll upload the file to rapidshare or something and just PM it to you.
I do have a picture of what I want but it seems kinda small...it would probably be a better co_ map then it would a ns_ map.
But I'll load up my unfinished layout sometime later.
I know how I want to make one hive area and the marine start. But the other 2 hives and pretty much everything else I'm unsure of...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Start out with a basic design and use this forum for a feedback-edit loop to make a balanced and polished ns map.
(Although this assumes: you have decent skill as a mapper and you will LISTEN to critical feedback. Sometimes listening to the not-so-pleasant weaknesses helps you improve your design overall)
Can't wait to see what you come up with!
Sincerely,
<b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->x5<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
I made a list of stuff I'm going to try and make
Hive Areas:
Research Observatory
Outside forest area
Nuclear Reactor
Marine Start:
Head of the ship
Other Areas:
Lounge
Holo room
Docking bay (Where ships would enter the space station)
Sleeping area
What other areas might you see in a big space station? Some areas might be taken out if I can't think of how I want them to look. Right now I only know what I want the hive's to look like.
Might want to play around with gl_wireframe 2 in the console a bit to keep an eye on what is and isn't rendered. And go ahead and google for vis blocking/vis blockers/reducing r_speeds (or something). If you are going to do the detailed forest thing. Better prevent these problems from arising then having to fix them lateron <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
[edit]
Now where's that cool looking, yet unfinished map, that had a large outdoor area where you could enter a cave or mine... Ring anybells for anyone? Orangy look of the outdoor area, which looked like a large cliff with some buildings in there and a nice and spooky dark mining hole/cave...
If that screenshot gets found it might inspire you for your outdoor area. Oh and lets not forget <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62266" target="_blank">Ns Outdoor Mapping Guidelines/rules</a>
Yeah, it had large outdoor areas, but they were empty as anything. Wouldn't be good inspiration for a forest.
[edit]Ah here we go! Kawak and the power of awesomesauce <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61992" target="_blank">co_akaba</a>
Might not be an inspiration for the forest area, but it could be an inspiration for another outdoor. Heck am I confusing ns_eva with another map, I could've sworn you talked about a cave like area! Hence I though of akaba as inspiration... How'd this happen o.O"
Tell me what you think of it now!
I redid the textures so now it looks much better. I also changed the support things for the ceiling and added a small light under them. The entrance to the room will seem dark but once you get inside it will look much better.
<img src="http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9418/nseva0010lt9.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4746/nseva0013jj0.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I also have one problem...these walls textures don't match up...is there something I could put right in the corner or something that makes them flow together?
<img src="http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9853/nseva0012uv7.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also, ignore the pink trigger stuff...I put that there because when a skulk tries to run up that wall they get stuck and thats supposed to make them go up smoothly...it's supposed to be invisible.