NS2 features (questions and suggestions)
Harimau
Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
<div class="IPBDescription">First post. Be gentle ;p</div>Hey. I just have a number of.. well, questions and suggestions.
I've pretty much just caught up on a year's worth of NS news (and a few more recent forum threads) in the last few days, so here're my (expansions on) ideas after reading:
(most likely a lot of these things have been discussed before, but let's say i'm just new here, so please, be nice?)
-it's all in note-form (<3 notepad) so :\ apologies if it gets hard to read
++ easing the learning curve ++
+ tutorial levels, that teach:
(in terms of story and ingame, alien hive mind or marine commander/instructor (through icons, voice and/or text) directing objectives in tutorial etc)
[ but what i'm concerned about is, are you teaching skills and tactics here as well? because tutorials should really only teach the basics, and skills and tactics should be learnt on your own or taught by other players, imho ]
[ what's important is that the tutorials are short and concise, teach as much as you can in as little time/effort as possible - and if possible, try to keep it fun :/, or fun enough - people need the incentive to do/stay-on the tutorials (and after first installation, the tutorial button/menu should flash so new players know exactly what to click) ]
skulks - movement - wall-running, halls, obstacles, etc.
skulks - combat - distance to 'bite', switching between leap/bite etc., dodging fire
gorge - what to build, how to build
gorge - laying webs, playing the support role
lerks - flying etc.
etc. you can expand on this all you like.
marines - weapons, movement, combat, following orders (and outline the incentives/rewards), building, etc. etc.
commander - learning the start-game, tech tree, giving orders, support roles, placing buildings, 'spells'
general - area-specific damage bonuses for each alien/marine (though this could just be included in a 'help' or a tool-tip)
+ in-game tool-tips (which can be turned off) in addition to the map-specific 'wiki's that were mentioned in the blogs
+ play with bots/AI (esp. to learn commander role)
++ changes i don't really like ++
+ alien commander - loses the feel of aliens, but perhaps necessary (kinda feels like the backstory to Starship Troopers - new brain alien that coordinated the aliens, in order to fight the marine threat)(as flayra said, ns2 takes place after a time skip, both sides have been studying each other, and evolved/developed to better fight one another)
[ if necessary, should be a totally different feel to the marine commander - but then again... more problems with the learning curve, still i think they should be vastly different experiences ]
[ if i made comparisons, aliens and their various 'classes' would be more akin to Team Fortress (varied individuals complementing each other, working towards goals) and marines more akin to something like battlefield 2 (commander ordering around units, squads, providing support) - but of course NS has greater rts-inspired complexity ]
+ no (official) ns combat - i think it appeals to a greater playerbase, plus easier to play and get into, for those that argue about splitting the community, well, those players found combat more suited to their gaming needs, just respect their decision
[ i've always thought that just as classic is a cross between FPS and RTS, combat was a cross between FPS and RPG, still, there should be "advertising" for classic/core play, plus as someone suggested, maybe include a clear mention that it is the 'training' mode or not the true NS/2 gameplay ]
[ there's more balance and quality with an official game mode, plus it adds more diversity to NS2 gameplay ]
[ combat is also better for smaller (particularly LAN) games when you haven't got many people to play with (i remember playing CO ~3v3 with friends on LAN, and that's impossible with classic (to have a decent game anyway)), but NS just has a great atmosphere, and you get a bit of a taste of that atmosphere and gameplay in CO ]
++ more suggestions ++
+ dynamic infestation should 'devour' the flesh of marine corpses, as well as kharaa; probably no gameplay effect, just looks cool - but possibly res bonuses, or infestation temporarily grows faster?
+ aliens should disintegrate into bacteria - possibly part of their spent resources recycled back into the alien economy (only while being consumed by infestation?)
+ gorges could build the "tubes" through dynamic infestation, possibly aliens could 'swim' through (tubes filled with "water"), serve as spy or ambush points as well as quick alternative transport (if you make it an alien-only place)
+ rather than holding the USE key, marines could press it once, and it would 'deploy' a 'bot full of those lovely nanites <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> (faster with more players' unique bots) - keeps player involvement in building, but less of the boredom
[ this would be a step-up from NS1 in terms of the technology in the story as well, before it was the marines planting nanites directly from their suit/armour, now they carry around packs/bots ]
+ better death animations + corpses ;p
+ heavy armour should be something more along the lines of a military-grade powered "exoskeleton" <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton</a> (eg. a comic/manga surrounding exoskeletons (with excellent art and 'mech' designs) is Red Eyes by Jun Shindo), sacrifices speed, provides armour and greater strength, probably a different (heavier) weapon roll-out (personally, instead of a knife, i'd like to punch an alien to death with some kind of thick gauntlet)
+ more weapons, or at least, customising the look of your weapons (since we'll be 'buying' weapons anyway) - i saw a concept art with a green rifle, and another similar rifle with a 'dirt' colour scheme
[ for new players, it might be better to have more first-weapon options, so if they're having no luck hitting a skulk with the lmg, maybe they can hit something with a low-powered shotgun ]
[ when 'buying' weapons it should be a 'pick default weapon' kind of thing, because i don't wanna have to buy a shotgun every time i respawn :\ ]
+ have a little bit of info/summary or on-the-bright-side thing like they have in server mods for CS and TF2 by default ( you killed [] and [], you dealt 73 dmg to [], [] dealt you 1 hit for 23 dmg, [] dealt 2 hits for 84 dmg, killed you )
[ i'm just thinking it'll be less frustrating for new players who never -seem- to hit anything (well maybe downplay that you got hurt and killed) ]
[ plus, you mentioned humour, i'm just repeating someone else's idea, but there's a need to (somehow) remove the sting out of getting killed ]
+ a "goo" weapon - eg. what is used to disable the thinktank (with implanted cyberbrain) in ghost in the shell: standalone complex 1st Gig
[ in order to slow down aliens, particularly skulks, hardens after a few seconds, so can only be used on a surface soon before arrival of alien, or directly on the alien (temporary effect, mobility soon returns) ]
[ or the opposite - it becomes the aliens' biochemical weapon against the marines ]
+ sprinting (btw, what is to happen to (relatively silent) walking then?), mostly for straights, low direction-changing movement (could be kinda like the halo vehicles, you point in a certain direction, but it doesn't move the vehicle in that direction straight away, but eases into that direction ]
+ if an onos charges you, and you end up crushed between a wall and that onos, that should basically be instant kill, unless you have heavy armour
+ areas with varied damage for both marines and aliens (practically useless fighting something like a skulk that moves so quick and randomly), but fighting others at some distance with better aiming should produce greater damage
+ enhanced motion sensors (or a lock-on/targeting function), that within a certain proximity, can detect motion in -any- direction, doesn't have to be within view, instead it has some kind of arrow(s), or perhaps something like the red being-damaged hud thing. (make it easier to target the skulks that are running around you, might make it -too- easy for marines, but more accessible to new players at least)
+ for skulk view rotation - always knowing which way is down(/up), using an arrow or something - someone mentioned a little addition to the crosshair, and that sounds pretty good - IF you keep this in.
+ someone mentioned lerks latching on the ceiling (interesting), i'd add that lerks and skulks can (respectively) latch (perhaps add a leech ability), and run on (like a giant killer rat or bug crawling on you), marines, while biting their head off - well, that might get a bit unbalanced, you'd probably have to add a sure-fire way to kick them off - but it's just an idea.
+ greater incentives for following orders, and working for the team (gorges building and such)
+ an established backstory, i remember reading a number of 'articles' on the old NS website about the backstory behind the kharaa invasion, even the naming of the aliens as Kharaa, the emphasis on the reliance on nanomachines (weren't resource nodes points that provided generic nanomachines that could be re-used?) and i really just enjoyed that, maybe it's more for the hardcore fan, but backstories imo are King. ]
[ there could be a menu option that leads to a 'help' or 'about' section (or a link to the website), that explains the backstory (events in "first contact", prior, and since) finer points (area-specific damage bonuses could be in any frontiersmen's manual) as well as what's changed/progressed in the last few years since 'first contact' - establishing a concrete setting for the warfront ]
[ include images, especially concept art - or these could be little easter eggs that you can unlock by playing - for those that don't just hack the game ]
[ and essentially, it'll set you apart from all the other games you admit to being influenced by, or 'ripped off' <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> ]
+ add detailed 'taunts', ideally through the mouse2-menu (to take some time), but make it so that you'd be a complete idiot to taunt someone in the middle of combat ]
[ i think it'll just be more fun - eg. a skulk has just killed you with a good bite to the leg after you've just managed to fend off an onos, and with a snarling grin it laughs (and sounds probably something like the alien hive mind) ]
++ questions ++
+ wondering, are the alt. fire different for each alien's selected ability (eg. in CS for each weapon: sniper rifle fire/scope, pistol single/burst) or just one extra ability per alien- because it seems like the gorge, using its 2second-turtleshield (that can ricochet shots) seems like an 'extra ability' that you don't need to select a particular ability for first, just that mouse2 while you're a gorge will always do that thing for you. (leap for skulk, blink for fade, charge/stomp for onos??)
[ plus i agree with what someone else said, not every (marine) weapon needs alt.fire ]
[ what happens to the (default) mouse2-menu? or essentially - What is the control scheme for NS going to be? ]
+ how detailed are the models going to be? i've seen the concept art and they just look excellent (aliens especially), particularly with those extra "appendages" and such - will details like these be more than just a 2d texture wrapped around the model?
+ is it likely there'll be a public demo for people to try the game? something like, tutorials + a map or two, ability to play on demo-only servers, that kind of thing?
well i think that's enough for now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> i hope that wasn't -too- incoherent. :\ i just wrote according to my thoughts at the time, jumping from thing to thing, adding stuff, etc. - it's... "organised but chaotic"
i'm really excited about NS2 and i wish you all the best.
i really like the podcasts - imo, it gives greater insight into the developers and their thought process, there are no rehearsals, just a few key points and you're speaking your mind, and you're not getting a 'refined' or 'revised' product like you would for a blog entry - it's pretty much all improv- which i think is great.
good job guys. keep it up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I've pretty much just caught up on a year's worth of NS news (and a few more recent forum threads) in the last few days, so here're my (expansions on) ideas after reading:
(most likely a lot of these things have been discussed before, but let's say i'm just new here, so please, be nice?)
-it's all in note-form (<3 notepad) so :\ apologies if it gets hard to read
++ easing the learning curve ++
+ tutorial levels, that teach:
(in terms of story and ingame, alien hive mind or marine commander/instructor (through icons, voice and/or text) directing objectives in tutorial etc)
[ but what i'm concerned about is, are you teaching skills and tactics here as well? because tutorials should really only teach the basics, and skills and tactics should be learnt on your own or taught by other players, imho ]
[ what's important is that the tutorials are short and concise, teach as much as you can in as little time/effort as possible - and if possible, try to keep it fun :/, or fun enough - people need the incentive to do/stay-on the tutorials (and after first installation, the tutorial button/menu should flash so new players know exactly what to click) ]
skulks - movement - wall-running, halls, obstacles, etc.
skulks - combat - distance to 'bite', switching between leap/bite etc., dodging fire
gorge - what to build, how to build
gorge - laying webs, playing the support role
lerks - flying etc.
etc. you can expand on this all you like.
marines - weapons, movement, combat, following orders (and outline the incentives/rewards), building, etc. etc.
commander - learning the start-game, tech tree, giving orders, support roles, placing buildings, 'spells'
general - area-specific damage bonuses for each alien/marine (though this could just be included in a 'help' or a tool-tip)
+ in-game tool-tips (which can be turned off) in addition to the map-specific 'wiki's that were mentioned in the blogs
+ play with bots/AI (esp. to learn commander role)
++ changes i don't really like ++
+ alien commander - loses the feel of aliens, but perhaps necessary (kinda feels like the backstory to Starship Troopers - new brain alien that coordinated the aliens, in order to fight the marine threat)(as flayra said, ns2 takes place after a time skip, both sides have been studying each other, and evolved/developed to better fight one another)
[ if necessary, should be a totally different feel to the marine commander - but then again... more problems with the learning curve, still i think they should be vastly different experiences ]
[ if i made comparisons, aliens and their various 'classes' would be more akin to Team Fortress (varied individuals complementing each other, working towards goals) and marines more akin to something like battlefield 2 (commander ordering around units, squads, providing support) - but of course NS has greater rts-inspired complexity ]
+ no (official) ns combat - i think it appeals to a greater playerbase, plus easier to play and get into, for those that argue about splitting the community, well, those players found combat more suited to their gaming needs, just respect their decision
[ i've always thought that just as classic is a cross between FPS and RTS, combat was a cross between FPS and RPG, still, there should be "advertising" for classic/core play, plus as someone suggested, maybe include a clear mention that it is the 'training' mode or not the true NS/2 gameplay ]
[ there's more balance and quality with an official game mode, plus it adds more diversity to NS2 gameplay ]
[ combat is also better for smaller (particularly LAN) games when you haven't got many people to play with (i remember playing CO ~3v3 with friends on LAN, and that's impossible with classic (to have a decent game anyway)), but NS just has a great atmosphere, and you get a bit of a taste of that atmosphere and gameplay in CO ]
++ more suggestions ++
+ dynamic infestation should 'devour' the flesh of marine corpses, as well as kharaa; probably no gameplay effect, just looks cool - but possibly res bonuses, or infestation temporarily grows faster?
+ aliens should disintegrate into bacteria - possibly part of their spent resources recycled back into the alien economy (only while being consumed by infestation?)
+ gorges could build the "tubes" through dynamic infestation, possibly aliens could 'swim' through (tubes filled with "water"), serve as spy or ambush points as well as quick alternative transport (if you make it an alien-only place)
+ rather than holding the USE key, marines could press it once, and it would 'deploy' a 'bot full of those lovely nanites <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> (faster with more players' unique bots) - keeps player involvement in building, but less of the boredom
[ this would be a step-up from NS1 in terms of the technology in the story as well, before it was the marines planting nanites directly from their suit/armour, now they carry around packs/bots ]
+ better death animations + corpses ;p
+ heavy armour should be something more along the lines of a military-grade powered "exoskeleton" <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton</a> (eg. a comic/manga surrounding exoskeletons (with excellent art and 'mech' designs) is Red Eyes by Jun Shindo), sacrifices speed, provides armour and greater strength, probably a different (heavier) weapon roll-out (personally, instead of a knife, i'd like to punch an alien to death with some kind of thick gauntlet)
+ more weapons, or at least, customising the look of your weapons (since we'll be 'buying' weapons anyway) - i saw a concept art with a green rifle, and another similar rifle with a 'dirt' colour scheme
[ for new players, it might be better to have more first-weapon options, so if they're having no luck hitting a skulk with the lmg, maybe they can hit something with a low-powered shotgun ]
[ when 'buying' weapons it should be a 'pick default weapon' kind of thing, because i don't wanna have to buy a shotgun every time i respawn :\ ]
+ have a little bit of info/summary or on-the-bright-side thing like they have in server mods for CS and TF2 by default ( you killed [] and [], you dealt 73 dmg to [], [] dealt you 1 hit for 23 dmg, [] dealt 2 hits for 84 dmg, killed you )
[ i'm just thinking it'll be less frustrating for new players who never -seem- to hit anything (well maybe downplay that you got hurt and killed) ]
[ plus, you mentioned humour, i'm just repeating someone else's idea, but there's a need to (somehow) remove the sting out of getting killed ]
+ a "goo" weapon - eg. what is used to disable the thinktank (with implanted cyberbrain) in ghost in the shell: standalone complex 1st Gig
[ in order to slow down aliens, particularly skulks, hardens after a few seconds, so can only be used on a surface soon before arrival of alien, or directly on the alien (temporary effect, mobility soon returns) ]
[ or the opposite - it becomes the aliens' biochemical weapon against the marines ]
+ sprinting (btw, what is to happen to (relatively silent) walking then?), mostly for straights, low direction-changing movement (could be kinda like the halo vehicles, you point in a certain direction, but it doesn't move the vehicle in that direction straight away, but eases into that direction ]
+ if an onos charges you, and you end up crushed between a wall and that onos, that should basically be instant kill, unless you have heavy armour
+ areas with varied damage for both marines and aliens (practically useless fighting something like a skulk that moves so quick and randomly), but fighting others at some distance with better aiming should produce greater damage
+ enhanced motion sensors (or a lock-on/targeting function), that within a certain proximity, can detect motion in -any- direction, doesn't have to be within view, instead it has some kind of arrow(s), or perhaps something like the red being-damaged hud thing. (make it easier to target the skulks that are running around you, might make it -too- easy for marines, but more accessible to new players at least)
+ for skulk view rotation - always knowing which way is down(/up), using an arrow or something - someone mentioned a little addition to the crosshair, and that sounds pretty good - IF you keep this in.
+ someone mentioned lerks latching on the ceiling (interesting), i'd add that lerks and skulks can (respectively) latch (perhaps add a leech ability), and run on (like a giant killer rat or bug crawling on you), marines, while biting their head off - well, that might get a bit unbalanced, you'd probably have to add a sure-fire way to kick them off - but it's just an idea.
+ greater incentives for following orders, and working for the team (gorges building and such)
+ an established backstory, i remember reading a number of 'articles' on the old NS website about the backstory behind the kharaa invasion, even the naming of the aliens as Kharaa, the emphasis on the reliance on nanomachines (weren't resource nodes points that provided generic nanomachines that could be re-used?) and i really just enjoyed that, maybe it's more for the hardcore fan, but backstories imo are King. ]
[ there could be a menu option that leads to a 'help' or 'about' section (or a link to the website), that explains the backstory (events in "first contact", prior, and since) finer points (area-specific damage bonuses could be in any frontiersmen's manual) as well as what's changed/progressed in the last few years since 'first contact' - establishing a concrete setting for the warfront ]
[ include images, especially concept art - or these could be little easter eggs that you can unlock by playing - for those that don't just hack the game ]
[ and essentially, it'll set you apart from all the other games you admit to being influenced by, or 'ripped off' <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> ]
+ add detailed 'taunts', ideally through the mouse2-menu (to take some time), but make it so that you'd be a complete idiot to taunt someone in the middle of combat ]
[ i think it'll just be more fun - eg. a skulk has just killed you with a good bite to the leg after you've just managed to fend off an onos, and with a snarling grin it laughs (and sounds probably something like the alien hive mind) ]
++ questions ++
+ wondering, are the alt. fire different for each alien's selected ability (eg. in CS for each weapon: sniper rifle fire/scope, pistol single/burst) or just one extra ability per alien- because it seems like the gorge, using its 2second-turtleshield (that can ricochet shots) seems like an 'extra ability' that you don't need to select a particular ability for first, just that mouse2 while you're a gorge will always do that thing for you. (leap for skulk, blink for fade, charge/stomp for onos??)
[ plus i agree with what someone else said, not every (marine) weapon needs alt.fire ]
[ what happens to the (default) mouse2-menu? or essentially - What is the control scheme for NS going to be? ]
+ how detailed are the models going to be? i've seen the concept art and they just look excellent (aliens especially), particularly with those extra "appendages" and such - will details like these be more than just a 2d texture wrapped around the model?
+ is it likely there'll be a public demo for people to try the game? something like, tutorials + a map or two, ability to play on demo-only servers, that kind of thing?
well i think that's enough for now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> i hope that wasn't -too- incoherent. :\ i just wrote according to my thoughts at the time, jumping from thing to thing, adding stuff, etc. - it's... "organised but chaotic"
i'm really excited about NS2 and i wish you all the best.
i really like the podcasts - imo, it gives greater insight into the developers and their thought process, there are no rehearsals, just a few key points and you're speaking your mind, and you're not getting a 'refined' or 'revised' product like you would for a blog entry - it's pretty much all improv- which i think is great.
good job guys. keep it up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Comments
<b>Comabt</b>
If it was possible to scale the gameplay down to an even (and fun!) 3on3 match there would be no Combat. And if its called Training-Mode noone would take it serious. A fan developed Combat will suit our needs I guess and give Max and Charlie time to focus on the classic mode.
<b>Demo</b>
The last idea regarding a Demo mentioned in the Podcasts was that there will probably be one. But rather a "play NS2 free for one weekend" than the typical "play NS2 on two crappy maps and only on demo-servers" version. But nothing final on this subject has leaked yet.
maybe you could have three options?
a) the manual building you've got in NS, hold the USE key, no opportunity for immediate fighting, 1.5x normal building speed
b) planting a 'bot' and staying within a certain radius of the building, 1x normal building speed.
c) moving away completely, 0.5x normal building speed
well, something like that. just <b>c</b> would be fine, or just <b>b</b>, or a combination of any two, but please, please, do not make <b>a</b> the only option.
I don't disagree or agree with marines being able to fight and build but currently that's a difference between the two teams and if marines could fight and build at the same time it would make the two teams more similar.
Maybe building will become a minigame like welding where you have to click/use different parts of the building to build.
In my opinion, my suggested feature would be an achievement / ranking system similar to CoD4 / Battlefield series. If recent games are any indication, these systems can be very rewarding and offer a sense of progression in typically static games. Adding an extra layer of dynamism to NS2 would be welcome, even if they are only trivial, cosmetic indications of rank, or achievements. Persistent achievements could be woven into games by having certain "Perks" (A' la COD) come online with researched tech. (e.g. Weapons 2 would activate player's first perk). This has the potential to give greater individuality to players, allow "roles" for players (Medic / Scout / Grunt etc), reward long-term players and give newcomers something to work for.