What is Spawn Camping?
Domining
Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
<div class="IPBDescription">epic thread!</div><b>Why do people do it? Do they like griefing?</b>
Good players do it not because they like to make the current alien roster feel bad. Good players do it because they want to put their crosshairs over aliens and press mouse one! They aren't looking to build RTs or any other crap like that in pubs, they just want to shoot stuff. The action outside of the hive is usually too slow for them (yea ns is REALLY slow) and they want to maximize efficiency by putting their alien shooting skill to the greatest use possible. Since the majority of the skulks they find along the way (and aliens DO have an absolute crapload of opportunities to stop the marines from going in their hive) are terrible walker skulks which are <i>beyond</i> easy to kill; they take it for granted that they can simply run in the hive killing 5 skulks along the way and commence the domining at max speed.
<b>Is it bad?</b>
It most certainly is; a lot of players don't like it.
<b>Is it overpowered?</b>
I doubt it very much. I had no trouble instantly killing dante yesterday on ns_veil in spawn as a no upgrade skulk after not playing this game for like 6 months. (TF2!!!)
<b>Well I certainly don't like it, can you fix it?</b>
That's the tricky part. If you want hive walk-ins to still be a viable strategy (and I'm assuming that this is the case) it is not possible to give the aliens any overpowering benefits inside of the hive.
The only real hope the devs have of fixing it is to increase the pace of Natural Selection. This should probably be done by increasing skulk movement speed outside of combat. (Spawn out of rts???)
Good players do it not because they like to make the current alien roster feel bad. Good players do it because they want to put their crosshairs over aliens and press mouse one! They aren't looking to build RTs or any other crap like that in pubs, they just want to shoot stuff. The action outside of the hive is usually too slow for them (yea ns is REALLY slow) and they want to maximize efficiency by putting their alien shooting skill to the greatest use possible. Since the majority of the skulks they find along the way (and aliens DO have an absolute crapload of opportunities to stop the marines from going in their hive) are terrible walker skulks which are <i>beyond</i> easy to kill; they take it for granted that they can simply run in the hive killing 5 skulks along the way and commence the domining at max speed.
<b>Is it bad?</b>
It most certainly is; a lot of players don't like it.
<b>Is it overpowered?</b>
I doubt it very much. I had no trouble instantly killing dante yesterday on ns_veil in spawn as a no upgrade skulk after not playing this game for like 6 months. (TF2!!!)
<b>Well I certainly don't like it, can you fix it?</b>
That's the tricky part. If you want hive walk-ins to still be a viable strategy (and I'm assuming that this is the case) it is not possible to give the aliens any overpowering benefits inside of the hive.
The only real hope the devs have of fixing it is to increase the pace of Natural Selection. This should probably be done by increasing skulk movement speed outside of combat. (Spawn out of rts???)
Comments
so yeah, when you get spawncamped blame the mapper, or if you dont know the mapper just blame ben
There is absolutely nothing wrong in spawn camping, its a valid strat to win a round. ONLY because its pretty much agonizing when youre in the dying end off it, it should get a tiny fix(and no, spawn invul isnt a fix).
How about intelligently created hive rooms?
Yeah, that was my initial thought, but then i thought that it would be less of a work to just change spawn locations.
-Let aliens hold their reverse key (s) to queue up in spawn. Hence, a bunch of aliens could wait and spawn in at once, almost like an alien beacon (minus the res, plus some time).
-Let the alien spawn in the hive and get to 'shoot' out of its mouthy-tube thingy
-Like the idea above, let multiple aliens spawn inside the hive one by one, then they can all go out
-Let a spawning alien's view go to his spawnpoint 2 seconds before he actually spawns so he can orient himself
-Release a small cloud of umbra with spawning
-i'm sure im forgetting a bunch
Spawncamping sucks, but there are tons of ways to fix it, or at least lessen its damage.
NS is too slow.
Good players do it not because they like to make the current alien roster feel bad. Good players do it because they want to put their crosshairs over aliens and press mouse one! They aren't looking to build RTs or any other crap like that in pubs, they just want to shoot stuff. The action outside of the hive is usually too slow for them (yea ns is REALLY slow) and they want to maximize efficiency by putting their alien shooting skill to the greatest use possible. Since the majority of the skulks they find along the way (and aliens DO have an absolute crapload of opportunities to stop the marines from going in their hive) are terrible walker skulks which are <i>beyond</i> easy to kill; they take it for granted that they can simply run in the hive killing 5 skulks along the way and commence the domining at max speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, what? Good players care about winning the game more than just shooting stuff. The reason to spawncamp is because it slows/cripples the progress of the opposing team while your own team is taking control of the map. A player that is getting spawncamped is a player that can't protect RTs or kill your teammates. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with it, considering how many counter-measures each team has.
Actually i just like shooting stuff. Dont really care about my team winning.
I doubt it very much. I had no trouble instantly killing dante yesterday on ns_veil in spawn as a no upgrade skulk after not playing this game for like 6 months. (TF2!!!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the people who know who this is wont believe you. the people who dont wont care.
the best way to fix this is just set the respawn screen to where you are about to spawn, you can get a grip on where you are, and you can prepare to not get killed.
<!--quoteo(post=1665224:date=Dec 25 2007, 07:03 PM:name=Milo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Milo @ Dec 25 2007, 07:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually i just like shooting stuff. Dont really care about my team winning.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Predominant reply to your question round here budz.
<!--quoteo(post=1665253:date=Dec 25 2007, 11:25 PM:name=Skware)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Skware @ Dec 25 2007, 11:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665253"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the people who know who this is wont believe you. the people who dont wont care.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
k skware
METOO
BADNESS?
THIS IS HELENNNNNNNNNNNNNN
-Like the idea above, let multiple aliens spawn inside the hive one by one, then they can all go out
-Release a small cloud of umbra with spawning<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These ideas are interesting. Spawn camping is cherished aspect of the game, but some kind of clutch counter sounds promising. Rounds are far less boring when you know there is still hope
You're a helen. You can't make it harder for the marines, that would nerd shotgun walk-ins when you need to kill that 2nd hive.
NS is too slow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds like a generic response for future suggestions.
<b>First off: As long as people spawn, spawn camping will happen.</b> It is a benefit with a vice, and they are inseperable. Do you suggest to remove spawning altogether? No, you do not.
<b>Second: How will making NS faster paced solve this problem or fix it? A faster paced hive rush just means faster paced spawn camping.</b>
Why do people complain about spawn camping? <i>Because they cannot react fast enough for the situation.</i> Attacking a spawn camper and being the spawn camper has as much to do with player reflex as it does with the game engine.
<b>Last: Both teams rely on structures to spawn into the game.</b> Unless you can find a way to remove that reliance on structures, then no sir,
spawn camping will not removed.
<b>Conclusion: Spawn camping cannot be removed</b>, because it is a necessary evil to insure the game's function. Since there are no means to treat the problem, then the developers must find a means to ameliorate it instead.
Heyman
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>First off: As long as people spawn, spawn camping will happen.</b> It is a benefit with a vice, and they are inseperable. Do you suggest to remove spawning altogether? No, you do not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are times when spawn camping is beneficial to gameplay and there are times when it simply makes a lot of people angry. And no, there is spawning in TF2 - but there is no spawn camping as you'd notice. Your argument is inherently flawed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Second: How will making NS faster paced solve this problem or fix it? A faster paced hive rush just means faster paced spawn camping.</b>
Why do people complain about spawn camping? <i>Because they cannot react fast enough for the situation.</i> Attacking a spawn camper and being the spawn camper has as much to do with player reflex as it does with the game engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Forgive me if I didn't clarify. By fast paced I mean increase the pace at which aliens can respond to anything. - by increasing movement speed outside of combat.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Last: Both teams rely on structures to spawn into the game.</b> Unless you can find a way to remove that reliance on structures, then no sir,
spawn camping will not removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What proof do you have of that?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Conclusion: Spawn camping cannot be removed</b>, because it is a necessary evil to insure the game's function. Since there are no means to treat the problem, then the developers must find a means to ameliorate it instead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Addendum to conclusion:
Pull crap out of my bong hole.
I agree that you can't do anything about spawncamping without changing too much of the game.
So I guess the only solution is to make spawncamping more difficult by adding some of the mentioned ideas like moving to your next spawn position 2 seconds before you spawn or adding an umbra cloud.
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There are times when spawn camping is beneficial to gameplay and there are times when it simply makes a lot of people angry. And no, there is spawning in TF2 - but there is no spawn camping as you'd notice. Your argument is inherently flawed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What proof do you have of that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, no. This ties in with the fact that spawning requires structures in Natural Selection. Aliens cannot spawn without a hive. They are limited to the hive area, and almost literally directly under the hive. Marines cannot spawn either, without an infantry portal. Not only that, they spawn directly above the infantry portal.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Forgive me if I didn't clarify. By fast paced I mean increase the pace at which aliens can respond to anything. - by increasing movement speed outside of combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But then, that would be pointless. Being spawn camped means that a marine is present and shooting, thus making it a combat situation and then making your suggestion void to prevent spawn camping. Now, if you mean that aliens outside of combat respond to the spawn camping faster, then that would be what you call "fixing the symptoms", because it is still possible to spawn camp under the circumstances. Granted, it makes it more difficult, however.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Addendum to conclusion:
Pull crap out of my bong hole.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not very nice. I assumed that I would have an intelligent discussion with a person who genuinely wants to improve the game, rather than one who likes to make insults when he has nothing else to say.
Spawn camping actually is a viable tactic in some cases, while waiting for other team mates to build a pg at a hive, to force recappers etc to fall back to base, ...
Most of the time spawn camping is a result of bad scouting anyway, so you kinda deserve the punishment. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Spawn camping always gets a A+ in my book. Its almost always avoidable unless your team sucks big time, then its better to just let the game end imho. When its not avoidable, its usually because of poor map design, IE Maintenance hive on eclipse, starting with that hive is usually a horrid experience. I think its ns_caged that used to have the nice lerk vent right at marine start, that used to be a pain, now it leads nowhere and is not useful anymore.
I think if anyone thinks spawn camping is a serious problem should start work on a map that makes spawn camping harder to do, or get a mapper to modify his map to make spawn camping harder to do.
The old maps vs the new maps have some issues, the OLD maps usually have one giant flat room where everyone spawns, no debris or hubris around to get in the way of shots. Machina, one of the newer maps has interesting debris and angles to be able to camp in one of those hives. Because when we talk spawn camping, we are talking about camping aliens. Take tanith for instance, waste is a favorite hive to camp, the debris in the room is light, there is some, but the height a rine can obtain is challenging without a leap(second hive).
ideas I have to solve this "issue"
* aliens spawn in a room outside the hive, inaccessible by marines via a push entity, aliens cannot build here either (I saw one map done like this a long time ago, it was alright for a siege map
* more debris in the room and more intelligently placed spawn points
* no spawn noise, this is the key indicator for marines.
* suck it up, cupcake.
I like the 4th option the best <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
The new maps seem to make spawn camping more difficult, take the hives in Eon. Difficult to spawn camp without a cadre of marines. The old maps still sometimes favor lone marine spawn camps.
Parasite is the ultimate anti-spawn camp. Aliens are supposed to be camping not marines, so get out there skulks and start parasiting and running away. Inform other aliens to play it smart, I rather have a live skulk on the map then a dead one in the spawn queue, quit being so brave and running in all halo-style with dual wield on. I know I am guilty of this a lot, but I can get results usually, I have seen skulks go after the same marine 5 times in a row before they give up.
I am stopping now, I am starting to make sense on how a skulk is rarely ever played but really should be played like.