Deus Ex 3 Announced
Pulse
To create, to create and escape. Join Date: 2002-08-29 Member: 1248Members, Constellation
To create, to create and escape. Join Date: 2002-08-29 Member: 1248Members, Constellation
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">thousands reinstall the original</div>So how about that Deus Ex 3, huh? I hear it's one of them, whaddyacallit, vidya games.
<a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16365" target="_blank">Announcement</a>
<a href="http://ve3d.ign.com/videos/19299/PC/Deus-Ex-3" target="_blank">Teaser</a>
<a href="http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=3653403&postcount=35" target="_blank">??<i></i>?</a>
<a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16365" target="_blank">Announcement</a>
<a href="http://ve3d.ign.com/videos/19299/PC/Deus-Ex-3" target="_blank">Teaser</a>
<a href="http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=3653403&postcount=35" target="_blank">??<i></i>?</a>
Comments
But the PA post makes me hesitant.
So you stopped playing because you couldn't handle a self imposed restriction and blamed the game for some reason?
The developers never failed to deliver on any promises except the ones in your imagination. Nobody ever claimed that Deus Ex would have a "muli-path" story, and the game was always meant to have a linear series of objectives. What the developers promised, and what all the advertising emphasized was that they would give you near infinite freedom in <i>how</i> you complete those objectives. And what do you know, they delivered on a level far beyond even supposed paragons on open endedness like Fallout and The Elder Scrolls (or if we look into the future, Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines).
Yeah I didn't like it either for roughly the same reason. It's kind of like a tease, you can have the cool stuff but only if you play it in this not so fun way. Of course that's an opinion, but that's how I felt when I played the game.
What "cool stuff" were you hoping to get, exactly? You based your entire playstyle on something you're not good at because you wanted a few token compliments? I know it seems like I'm defending DX a lot here, but this is entirely your fault.
Anyway, if you absolutely must not kill anyone but can't handle stealth or non lethal weapons, there is a sure fire way to leave your enemies alive. And get ready for this, because it's going to <i>blow your mind</i>: Shoot them with your gun of choice until they drop their weapon and run away.
Anyway, if you absolutely must not kill anyone but can't handle stealth or non lethal weapons, there is a sure fire way to leave your enemies alive. And get ready for this, because it's going to <i>blow your mind</i>: Shoot them with your gun of choice until they drop their weapon and run away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said it was the game's fault. I just said I didn't like it and why I didn't like it. That's why I said "Of course that's an opinion". I don't expect every game to conform to my demands, and I don't expect to like every game even if people say it's "good".
First off, it's just a game. You're way too defensive. Chill.
Secondly, you're arguing semantics. Multi-path, infinite freedom, whatever you wish to call it, I didn't think the game delivered what I saw was promised. While yes, it did offer some choices to players in how the game progressed, it still was linear, and didn't achieve what I was expecting. Perhaps it was more noticeable to me because promises were made: I imagine if no such promises were made, I'd like the game more. Perhaps promises were overstated, and the game wasn't intended to be as revolutionary as it was said to be: personally, I don't see this to be the case, but rather it is another example of an overrated game. Regardless, it disappointed. It's not that I disliked the game, but I don't think it's worthy of the cult status level it has achieved. It's one of the old games that I haven't felt compelled to re-purchase and play through again, because the initial run through wasn't impressive enough to me.
Secondly, you're arguing semantics. Multi-path, infinite freedom, whatever you wish to call it, I didn't think the game delivered what I saw was promised. While yes, it did offer some choices to players in how the game progressed, it still was linear, and didn't achieve what I was expecting. Perhaps it was more noticeable to me because promises were made: I imagine if no such promises were made, I'd like the game more. Perhaps promises were overstated, and the game wasn't intended to be as revolutionary as it was said to be: personally, I don't see this to be the case, but rather it is another example of an overrated game. Regardless, it disappointed. It's not that I disliked the game, but I don't think it's worthy of the cult status level it has achieved. It's one of the old games that I haven't felt compelled to re-purchase and play through again, because the initial run through wasn't impressive enough to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said before, what you "saw was promised" was a figment of your imagination. Simple as that.
I don't think the fact that the 'sneak up on everyone and blackjack them or tranq dart them' gameplay was tedious and boring was my fault. Also, I don't think it was invented by me, considering it was implemented by the devs. I'm flattered that you think I came up with the gameplay. The 'self-imposed restriction' was to either play the game in a tedious and boring way, or go in guns blazing and feel punished and shunned by some central plot characters. it was more of a plot-suggested restriction than a self-imposed one.
That's what your <i>mom</i> said last night.
...I need new shoes.
"Sneak up on everyone and blackjack/tranquilize them" is most definitely a self-imposed limitation. There are a million other ways to approach things, from the "shoot everything that moves" to the "sneak past people" to "run up to their face and taser them to unconsciousness" to "set a trap with explosives or tear gas and lure them in to it" to "hack a security turret and use it to kill everyone" etc etc etc. You say the only limitation is "be a pacifist or be shunned" and you make that sound like it's the game's fault that the more altruistic people get mad when you slaughter people. It's <i>supposed</i> to be harder to not kill everyone. I
t's like in real life. Sure, you could kill everyone who stands in your way, and that'll be easier and faster, but people will grumble. You seem to want to have your cake and eat it to: a more thoughtful approach is supposed to be just as easy as killing everyone, or something. That would completely eliminate any sort of moral choice in the game, because right now you need to decide between what's easier and safer for you (KILL DEATH DIE) or what's more morally justifiable (bop them lightly on the head, but possibly get shot at).
This is the whole point behind Deus Ex: choice. With everything from the augmentations to the conversations to the entrance you choose to an area to whether you kill people or try to keep them alive, there are choices and consequences for everything. Some paths are easier, some are harder, but they are all different and have their own rewards. If stealth + pacifism were as easy and as consequence-free storywise as just wasting anyone who looked at you funny, there wouldn't be a choice. It would just be a matter of what guns you use and how much you crouch, really.
It one thing if you make all the choices equal. It's another if one choice gives better rewards than another. You can choose to complete accomplishments in HL2 and I'm glad they had them. I'm also glad they didn't make the accomplishments have anything to do with getting weapons in the game.
Making every choice equal completely and utterly defeats the point of having choices at all. In your idealized version of Half-Life 2 where all choices are equal, you can either shoot the combine or not shoot the combine, but it doesn't matter since all roads lead to victory anyway.
Of course, your analogy is also ridiculous on many levels. For starters, what does it have to do with <i>anything</i>? You don't even get a material reward for the choice in question in Deus Ex.
Ok, that was a lie. You get two extra clips of pistol ammo. Which you don't need, because you necessarily haven't been using the pistol up to this point. How could you ever recover from such a massive loss?
It's not an actual choice if the rewards are all the same. If the rewards were equal no matter what you chose to do, you'd get the accomplishments in HL2 just for playing the game at all.
I'd argue it's not an actual choice if one choice is obviously better than the other.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Making every choice equal completely and utterly defeats the point of having choices at all. In your idealized version of Half-Life 2 where all choices are equal, you can either shoot the combine or not shoot the combine, but it doesn't matter since all roads lead to victory anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you misunderstood. I didn't say anything about not shooting combine, that's not a choice. I'm <i>glad </i>that's not a choice. Carrying the gnome to the rocket is a choice. One that effects how you play through the game. You don't get any extra weapons or abilities for completing that achievement though, just a sense of accomplishment which is enough for some people.
I'm sorry I don't like your favorite game. I don't like the same types of games as you. I'm never going to like it as much as you no matter how great you think it is. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.
Morpheus offers Neo the red pill and the blue pill. If they both lead to The Matrix, that's not a choice. If one leads to The Matrix and one leads to a cubicle, that's a choice.
Neo is the one even before he enters isn't he? So really, he never had a choice and was always destined to go to the Matrix?
I'm sorry I don't like your favorite game. I don't like the same types of games as you. I'm never going to like it as much as you no matter how great you think it is. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like how you cleverly sidestepped my argument by not addressing it at all. You must've been really popular at the debate club.
Also, I'm going to let you into a little secret about life: Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean that every opinion is correct. Some people have really stupid opinions; 911 truthers, for example. These people are hated and laughed at, and for good reason.
Whatever. I never watched the second two movies. You get what I'm trying to say, though.
One lead to the real world, the other lead to the Matrix. "If one leads to The Matrix and one leads to a cubicle" then they both lead to the Matrix. Regardless that's not what we're talking about; we're talking about a developer offering two different paths in a game and giving one a reward. If you wanted to have the freedom of choice you make both paths equal so there's no penalty in playing the other path. You don't have to make the two paths the <i>same</i> just balanced. Here's my tangentially related example. In many RPG's you can play as a caster or a warrior(among others) and beat the game either way. People put a lot of effort in to make sure both paths are viable and one isn't much harder than the other. Since you can beat the game with either you didn't really have a choice?
Also, I'm going to let you into a little secret about life: Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean that every opinion is correct. Some people have really stupid opinions; 911 truthers, for example. These people are hated and laughed at, and for good reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeez there should be an addendum to Godwin's law to include 9/11. We're not talking about a falsifiable event; we're talking about how much a certain playstyle appeals to me.
What part wasn't I addressing? That you only got two extra ammo clips? I saw where the game was going, the pattern of playing the game a certain way to get the best stuff. I didn't like the game enough to continue playing that way, and the other way it's just another shooter.
See, you can beat Deus Ex by being a stealthy pacifist, or you can beat it by being a ruthless murderer. That was my point.
The game favored playing stealthy pacifist and I didn't find it fun. That was my point.